PS Audio Quintet

[Roving Sign]

You guys need one of these...this way you can get a better look at your power, see what, if any, anomalies occur...

I have one somewhere...pretty cool little device...has a little LED wand that you hook up to it and download the data into a little program that analyzes/organizes the data...

http://www.microdaq.com/acr/powerwatch/index.php

Disclaimer : I use the Chang LightSpeed...

[nickgregory]

I would be very interested in hearing the files. I understand if you dont want to do it. Its very time consuming and to be honest why would you want to do a test for me, someone you dont even know. I would do it for the other people out there that maybe could use a good product if this is it why not?

has nothing to do with it.  I have a 3 week old at home, a full time job and really dont have the time to do it.  Also add to it that I have heard the difference and it wont prove anything to me.

As I stated earlier...

The simpler test is to plug the system into the wall and turn the volume up…I heard faint static, or noise in the background.  Upon hooking up the Audio Magic or the Monster unit, the noise went away….complete silence by my ears…a black background as it is commonly referred to as.

Most peoples stereo's exhibit this until they introduce some level of "clean power" be it a dedicated circuit, a power conditioner or a regenerator...

[Roving Sign]

I mean they actually condition the power coming in preventing spikes and brown outs and sagging. They dont claim to filter out things to increase your soundstage.

You make mics & preamps, Chris.  Could power spikes, brownouts, and sagging potentially impact the mics' / preamp's performance?  And could conditioning the power remove those issues and potentially stabilize / improve the mics' / preamp's performance?

Yes - but you have demonstrate that such conditions exist prior to introducing such a device...?

I posted the link to that info logger...All you have to do is run it on your outlet for a week - and then run it off whatever Power line conditioner you might have - you should see a difference...(or better yet - get TWO and compare the output)

It shouldn't really be a mystery...I know those Info Logger things are $alty - but I was always surprised the high-end audio guys didn't want them...considering how much they spend on shit like Shun Mook Mpingo discs...

[Church-Audio]

I would be very interested in hearing the files. I understand if you dont want to do it. Its very time consuming and to be honest why would you want to do a test for me, someone you dont even know. I would do it for the other people out there that maybe could use a good product if this is it why not?

has nothing to do with it.  I have a 3 week old at home, a full time job and really dont have the time to do it.  Also add to it that I have heard the difference and it wont prove anything to me.

As I stated earlier...

The simpler test is to plug the system into the wall and turn the volume up...I heard faint static, or noise in the background.  Upon hooking up the Audio Magic or the Monster unit, the noise went away....complete silence by my ears...a black background as it is commonly referred to as.

Most peoples stereo's exhibit this until they introduce some level of "clean power" be it a dedicated circuit, a power conditioner or a regenerator...

I remember those days I am sure someone else will make the sample recordings... I understand your situation 100% Enjoy your new baby! I totally agree that clean power is important. That was never a part of my argument, my argument is this how come you have to pay $500 for a power bar? with nothing more then a companies SAYSO that it improves the quality of the audio devices connected to it. And if you do have to pay that much maybe they should have audio samples on line to convince people of the quality differences of the before and after?

Chris

[Church-Audio]

I mean they actually condition the power coming in preventing spikes and brown outs and sagging. They dont claim to filter out things to increase your soundstage.

You make mics & preamps, Chris.  Could power spikes, brownouts, and sagging potentially impact the mics' / preamp's performance?  And could conditioning the power remove those issues and potentially stabilize / improve the mics' / preamp's performance?

Yes - but you have demonstrate that such conditions exist prior to introducing such a device...?

I posted the link to that info logger...All you have to do is run it on your outlet for a week - and then run it off whatever Power line conditioner you might have - you should see a difference...(or better yet - get TWO and compare the output)

It shouldn't really be a mystery...I know those Info Logger things are $alty - but I was always surprised the high-end audio guys didn't want them...considering how much they spend shit like Shun Mook Mpingo discs...

Respectfully the point that these guys are making. And I dont know if its true or not. Is that this device makes a difference in the sound quality of there sound systems.. I say great, if that's so make a recording of the before and after via a cd player and a digital recording device so we can all hear that difference and lets do some A/B tests. I dont think anyone here would argue that clean power is not important. It is.. but what are the benefits to the "soundstage" ? and can this clean power difference be heard in audio equipment that already filters out most of the line noise in the first place?


Chris

[RebelRebel]

Chris Church, I just wish someone would develop a grammatical cohesion filter for your posts.  

I am a huge skeptic too. Stereophile always contains one or two items that make me laugh a bit. I was very surprised to hear a marked difference in my own listening experience after using a power conditioner. The one I was using was borrowed , so I am currently shopping for one of my own..(I think that the PS Audio may be the one). It shouldn;t have been a surprise , given the fact that they have been used for years in Pro Audio and Live Sound applications. It seems as if you are on a crusade to convert the "audiophile" folks to your way of thinking, but why bother? Audio is such a personal thing, we all hear things so differently...who is anyone to say that this person or that is wrong?? After recently getting my own decent playback system together I have to say that my eyes have been opened to things I never would have thought possible, and as such I have been pretty humbled . Granted there are some things such as shakti stones, or tube-0-later lacquer, or altman acoustic panels that I still have a difficult time understanding, but if someone hears differences using those items, good on them. Audio is one of those areas in which science and logic are sometimes at odds with the results of subjective experience.(religion is another) Music/audio is too great a thing to be reduced to formulas and theories..why take all of the fun out of it? ..let folks enjoy the improvements they have coming, Chris. You dont have to save everyone from audiophilia..hell, shopping for things that will make a difference in a system is fun. Live and let live, man.

[Roving Sign]

If I can find my Info Logger(and the wand and software ), I'll run it for a day on my shitty 80 year old apartment wiring, and then put it on my Chang LightSpeed - If there is any data that shows the device is cleaning up the power - Ultimately - that's good enough for me!!! Who cares if it sounds better or not...? That's almost secondary in the face of empirical data...

[Church-Audio]

Chris Church, I just wish someone would develop a grammatical cohesion filter for your posts.  

I am a huge skeptic too. Stereophile always contains one or two items that make me laugh a bit. I was very surprised to hear a marked difference in my own listening experience after using a power conditioner. The one I was using was borrowed , so I am currently shopping for one of my own..(I think that the PS Audio may be the one). It shouldn;t have been a surprise , given the fact that they have been used for years in Pro Audio and Live Sound applications. It seems as if you are on a crusade to convert the "audiophile" folks to your way of thinking, but why bother? Audio is such a personal thing, we all hear things so differently...who is anyone to say that this person or that is wrong?? After recently getting my own decent playback system together I have to say that my eyes have been opened to things I never would have thought possible, and as such I have been pretty humbled . Granted there are some things such as shakti stones, or tube-0-later lacquer, or altman acoustic panels that I still have a difficult time understanding, but if someone hears differences using those items, good on them. Audio is one of those areas in which science and logic are sometimes at odds with the results of subjective experience.(religion is another) Music/audio is too great a thing to be reduced to formulas and theories..why take all of the fun out of it? ..let folks enjoy the improvements they have coming, Chris. You dont have to save everyone from audiophilia..hell, shopping for things that will make a difference in a system is fun. Live and let live, man.

LOL

Thanks that means alot comming from you. 
Mic SLUT.

[Brian Skalinder]

The simpler test is to plug the system into the wall and turn the volume up...I heard faint static, or noise in the background.  Upon hooking up the Audio Magic or the Monster unit, the noise went away....complete silence by my ears...a black background as it is commonly referred to as.

Most peoples stereo's exhibit this until they introduce some level of "clean power" be it a dedicated circuit, a power conditioner or a regenerator...

I had some nasty and fairly loud background noise before I moved my playback to the other side of the room and switched outlets.  What's different between the two?  Dunno.  But I do know the noise is dramatically reduced.  Could a power conditioner on the other outlet have achieved the same impact?  Dunno.  But it doesn't seem unreasonable that it might.

I dont think anyone here would argue that clean power is not important. It is.. but what are the benefits to the "soundstage" ?

For example, others have mentioned "blackening" of the background.  The audible end result of this blackening may appear as an improvement in soundstage because low level detail is no longer masked by noise.

and can this clean power difference be heard in audio equipment that already filters out most of the line noise in the first place?

You're assuming the audio equipment effectively filters most of the line noise in the first place.  As with all playback / recording gear - and you know this better than many here - designers and manufacturers cut corners in order to achieve a specific price point and target audience.  The cleaner the power, the less filtering is required by the playback gear.  Seems reasonable that the more filtering performed by a better filter, and the less performed by a mediocre filter, the better the overall filtering.

I say great, if that's so make a recording of the before and after via a cd player and a digital recording device so we can all hear that difference and lets do some A/B tests.

Respectfully, I think the best way for you to do the A/B test is to go buy one - or several of varying quality / feature sets - and see for yourself.

[Church-Audio]

The simpler test is to plug the system into the wall and turn the volume up...I heard faint static, or noise in the background.  Upon hooking up the Audio Magic or the Monster unit, the noise went away....complete silence by my ears...a black background as it is commonly referred to as.

Most peoples stereo's exhibit this until they introduce some level of "clean power" be it a dedicated circuit, a power conditioner or a regenerator...

I had some nasty and fairly loud background noise before I moved my playback to the other side of the room and switched outlets.  What's different between the two?  Dunno.  But I do know the noise is dramatically reduced.  Could a power conditioner on the other outlet have achieved the same impact?  Dunno.  But it doesn't seem unreasonable that it might.

I dont think anyone here would argue that clean power is not important. It is.. but what are the benefits to the "soundstage" ?

For example, others have mentioned "blackening" of the background.  The audible end result of this blackening may appear as an improvement in soundstage because low level detail is no longer masked by noise.

and can this clean power difference be heard in audio equipment that already filters out most of the line noise in the first place?

You're assuming the audio equipment effectively filters most of the line noise in the first place.  As with all playback / recording gear - and you know this better than many here - designers and manufacturers cut corners in order to achieve a specific price point and target audience.  The cleaner the power, the less filtering is required by the playback gear.  Seems reasonable that the more filtering performed by a better filter, and the less performed by a mediocre filter, the better the overall filtering.

I say great, if that's so make a recording of the before and after via a cd player and a digital recording device so we can all hear that difference and lets do some A/B tests.

Respectfully, I think the best way for you to do the A/B test is to go buy one - or several of varying quality / feature sets - and see for yourself.

I wish I could go out any buy one for my self but after my purchase of my DPA 4090 my wife said I am cut off for this month... So I have to wait until next month to buy it.. I dont want anyone to misunderstand me I do believe that some of these things actually work, I dont know what the overall effect on sound is though. Decreased noise floor is a good thing. I can see how that would decrease harmonics and increase your signal to noise ratio. My thoughts are if your gear is that noisy maybe its time for an upgrade?

[Brian Skalinder]

I wish I could go out any buy one for my self but after my purchase of my DPA 4090 my wife said I am cut off for this month... So I have to wait until next month to buy it..

Heh...I know how that goes.

I dont want anyone to misunderstand me I do believe that some of these things actually work, I dont know what the overall effect on sound is though. Decreased noise floor is a good thing. I can see how that would decrease harmonics and increase your signal to noise ratio. My thoughts are if your gear is that noisy maybe its time for an upgrade?

For me, that's precisely the point - I view adding a power conditioner as an upgrade.  In other words:  why upgrade to a new pre/amp with better filtering capabilities when I <1> like my current pre/amp and can <2> buy an external filter to improve the overall system.

[Church-Audio]

I wish I could go out any buy one for my self but after my purchase of my DPA 4090 my wife said I am cut off for this month... So I have to wait until next month to buy it..

Heh...I know how that goes.

I dont want anyone to misunderstand me I do believe that some of these things actually work, I dont know what the overall effect on sound is though. Decreased noise floor is a good thing. I can see how that would decrease harmonics and increase your signal to noise ratio. My thoughts are if your gear is that noisy maybe its time for an upgrade?

For me, that's precisely the point - I view adding a power conditioner as an upgrade.  In other words:  why upgrade to a new pre/amp with better filtering capabilities when I <1> like my current pre/amp and can <2> buy an external filter to improve the overall system.

I have no problem with filters if they work that's great... but I do have a problem with a company charging $500 and not really being able to prove that there product does help with the soundstage... I could make a product that could help people grow more hair but if I cant prove it what am I selling? A dream or a valid product?

[scervin]

I appreciate comments from both sides and I think we must all agree to disagree on the subject.  I should have known this topic would create a thread similar to those on other boards.

I ask that the TS Community accept my apology for starting this thread.

Thanks again to all who contributed.

SC