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Author Topic: Schoeps CMR (mshilarious please enter!)  (Read 28830 times)

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Online jerryfreak

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Schoeps CMR (mshilarious please enter!)
« on: March 05, 2008, 03:50:17 AM »
well, i received these yesterday, SN 134&135, always fun to be on the bleeding edge! they're only a few mm's longer than the end of a KC5 active cable.

http://flickr.com/photos/10466474@N04/2311424533/

(BTW, somebody wanted a picture of my 'universal ortf bar', there it is.

I was playing around with them a bit, i would describe them as a typical '3-wire' mic. Basically if you can give them 4-9V on the third wire, pure gold comes out of the other ones. :)

I built a simple (and I mean SIMPLE - one cap, one resistor) powering circuit kindly given to me by bernhard vollmer, and hooked the unbalanced outs from the mics to my V3 (grounding pin 1 and 3 on the V3, of course).

I close mic'd a monitor and recorded at two different volumes:

-monitor playing at a whisper with maximum gain on V3

-monitor playing at typical concert volume, V3 gain at the usual 35 dB

sounded great in both cases, in the louder test, the noise floor of the mic was down in the -70's as expected. The CMRs allow for the full SPL of the capsules (132 dB for an MK4). in the lower volume test, i could hear the self noise of the mic, but i also could clearly hear my voice whispering across the room.

When i get the time, i will be doing a controlled comp vs a CMC6. Schoeps claims the CMR has the same sound and specs (I suppose i could believe that with advances in miniaturization of components in the 30+ years since the CMC6 has been around.), we will see.

The fact that it works at all with my V3 and will still allow me to run a full on open rig with (hopefully) no compromises is a huge breakthrough in my book. Esp since it will make for a killer stealth rig when needed, using the same equipment as people are currently running with the at953s and dpa4061s, except for the bigger mics

this battery circuit literally sips power, 1mA per mic is nothing. i am thinking about switching from a 9V to the tiny 6V silver oxides the CMBI's use.

note that there are two different types of CMR, i got the version with the decoupling capacitor on the signal wire to protect the mics from inputs with 'plug in power', to allow for more preamp options.

i'm working with our favorite north-of-the-border preamp guru to come up with some fun stuff. Trying to get him to expand his talents into the miniature A>D world :)

FWIW, my 'all in one' miniature box of choice, Len's mic2496 didnt really work (yet?). i currently have it setup with voltage on the signal lines for my 2-wire DPA's, and was hoping the presence of the decoupling caps in the mics would eliminate the need for me to reconfigure it. I am gonna try to jumper it to eliminate any mic powering, and then pull power off of the same or a dedicated 9V with the mini-circuit bernhard gave me

stay tuned!


« Last Edit: April 09, 2008, 03:17:14 PM by jerryfreak »
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Offline shaggy

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Re: Schoeps CMR
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2008, 04:01:19 AM »
Jamie, do you got a Kwon bar around?  Can you see if the collar of the CMR fits the bar?

What is the cabling like?  Soft and pliable or rather stiff like the KC5 & KCY?

+T fer sharing!

Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: Schoeps CMR
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2008, 08:01:03 AM »
i'm behind the times.
what is the CMR ?

Offline drewloo

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Re: Schoeps CMR
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2008, 08:18:34 AM »
Microphone Amplifier for Pocket Transmitters
CMR

    * specially designed for using SCHOEPS "Colette"-series microphone capsules with pocket transmitters
    * low power consumption: only about 1/20 to 1/48 that of a phantom-powered microphone
    * low-impedance, unbalanced output

A SCHOEPS Colette-series condenser microphone normally consists of a CMC microphone amplifier plus one of the many available types of SCHOEPS Colette-series microphone capsule, operating from a source of 48 Volt phantom powering.

However, such powering is not available when the microphone is used with a pocket transmitter, as is often the case in film and television production. As a result, SCHOEPS ”Colette” series microphones have been difficult to use for this purpose. Electret microphones have often been the only practical solution.

The SCHOEPS CMR microphone amplifier puts an end to that situation. The CMR allows any SCHOEPS ”Colette” series capsule (except the BLM 03 C active boundary layer capsule) to be used with pocket transmitters. As with electret microphones only a very low supply current is required, yet the CMR offers low output impedance and good immunity to interfererence. The biggest benefit of all, however, is SCHOEPS' well-known sound quality, which this amplifier delivers fully.

The robust connecting cable is reinforced with Kevlar fibers. It remains flexible at low temperatures, and does not twist.

What types of equipment can the CMR be used with?

If the input of the equipment provides 1 mA for a micro­phone at 4 Volts or higher, the equipment should be suitable.
The current list of compatible devices is available on here.
If in doubt, simply ask your SCHOEPS representative or dealer.

Output cable

In many cases you would only have to tell us the type of equipment and the desired cable length. We could then make up an output cable for you with the proper wiring and plug.

Lead arrangement of the two-conductor shielded cable:
Shield: ground (both signal and powering)
Blue: + pole of the power supply
White: audio output
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Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: Schoeps CMR
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2008, 08:34:00 AM »
Interesting.
but what would be the need for this in a "taper" situation ?

seems like it could pose more problems than solutions.  and who in their right mind would set up a stereo pair of these and then walk away to record from a different location ?
I could see that in orchestral settings / churches I guess.

Offline Shawn

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Re: Schoeps CMR
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2008, 08:41:41 AM »

well you don't have to use a wireless type setup nick. I believe the CMR is really just the cables, which have some elctronics in them. think of it like a nbox except you provide the battery box portion of it. does that make sense?

Offline Craig T

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Re: Schoeps CMR
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2008, 09:36:54 AM »
Well, not quite since the NBox also gives you about +20db gain as well as power for the caps.   At $500/cable, seems like a very expensive option, but I guess if you consider the cost of a kc5>cmc6, it really isn't.  So you'd still need a battery box or some kind of adaptor to use phantom off your preamp/recorder.  Assuming you could fit the simple circuit inside something like an XLR barrel, you'd have a "ccm" style system with the ability to change caps - something that always kept me away from the ccm's.

well you don't have to use a wireless type setup nick. I believe the CMR is really just the cables, which have some elctronics in them. think of it like a nbox except you provide the battery box portion of it. does that make sense?
Schoeps cmc6/4v / Line Audio CM3, OM1 / ADK A51 / Church Audio CA-14
Naiant Tinybox v2.2 / NBox(P) / Apogee Mini-MP / Church Audio ST9200 / CA-UGLY
Sony PCM-M10 / Tascam DR-70D

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Re: Schoeps CMR
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2008, 09:57:40 AM »
huh...
i'll have to research this a little more

Online jerryfreak

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Re: Schoeps CMR
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2008, 11:45:17 AM »
well considering the Nbox guy buys active cables to make his n-boxes, and a pair of cmrs are cheaper than a pair of kc5s and use less power/require less electronics, i think it would be a no-brainer for him to move toward using these.


Well, not quite since the NBox also gives you about +20db gain as well as power for the caps.   At $500/cable, seems like a very expensive option, but I guess if you consider the cost of a kc5>cmc6, it really isn't.  So you'd still need a battery box or some kind of adaptor to use phantom off your preamp/recorder.  Assuming you could fit the simple circuit inside something like an XLR barrel, you'd have a "ccm" style system with the ability to change caps - something that always kept me away from the ccm's.

well you don't have to use a wireless type setup nick. I believe the CMR is really just the cables, which have some elctronics in them. think of it like a nbox except you provide the battery box portion of it. does that make sense?
in:
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Online jerryfreak

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Re: Schoeps CMR
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2008, 11:59:02 AM »
Measuring with my caliper, the collar  is the same as the kc5 at right about 8mm. i dont have a kwon bar, but i do have an SGC clip. it fits the CMR the same as the KC5.

Cabling is same schoeps style, rugged, but a little thinner. KC5= 4mm, CMR = 2.75 mm. Cable is two 22-24-ish conductors with a metal braided shield, and the same material on the outside as the KC5. should be very durable. so just by diameter alone, its a little more flexible, but it is fully shielded. i wouldnt describe it as 'stiff'

another advantage over cmrs vs kc5 for n-box - smaller cables running down your neck in a stealth situation!


Jamie, do you got a Kwon bar around?  Can you see if the collar of the CMR fits the bar?

What is the cabling like?  Soft and pliable or rather stiff like the KC5 & KCY?

+T fer sharing!
in:
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smaller: 4061/4099 CORE or 4011/4018V> d:vice MMA



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Offline Craig T

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Re: Schoeps CMR
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2008, 12:54:32 PM »
Nick doesn't use kc5's in the design.  They are his own proprietary cables, similar to a kcy but thinner.  He does use the schoeps collette connector to mate with the caps.  But I do agree, there might be some value to integrating the CMR's into the design.  Might make for a smaller/lighter nbox.  I'm more interested in the possible adaptation into a flexible-cap ccm type setup.

well considering the Nbox guy buys active cables to make his n-boxes, and a pair of cmrs are cheaper than a pair of kc5s and use less power/require less electronics, i think it would be a no-brainer for him to move toward using these.

Well, not quite since the NBox also gives you about +20db gain as well as power for the caps.   At $500/cable, seems like a very expensive option, but I guess if you consider the cost of a kc5>cmc6, it really isn't.  So you'd still need a battery box or some kind of adaptor to use phantom off your preamp/recorder.  Assuming you could fit the simple circuit inside something like an XLR barrel, you'd have a "ccm" style system with the ability to change caps - something that always kept me away from the ccm's.

well you don't have to use a wireless type setup nick. I believe the CMR is really just the cables, which have some elctronics in them. think of it like a nbox except you provide the battery box portion of it. does that make sense?
Schoeps cmc6/4v / Line Audio CM3, OM1 / ADK A51 / Church Audio CA-14
Naiant Tinybox v2.2 / NBox(P) / Apogee Mini-MP / Church Audio ST9200 / CA-UGLY
Sony PCM-M10 / Tascam DR-70D

Offline ianstone

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Re: Schoeps CMR
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2008, 01:09:46 PM »
  I'm more interested in the possible adaptation into a flexible-cap ccm type setup.


me too. keep us posted on these developments. thanks for the reports jamie!!!
Microphones:
CCM4v (pair)
mk6 (pair) and mk41 (pair) with kc5's & cmc6's
mk21 (1) for those M/S situations

Preamps:
Sonosax SX-M2

Recorders:
Sound Devices 722
Edirol R-01

My Recordings on archive http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=%22ian%20stone%22

Online jerryfreak

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Re: Schoeps CMR
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2008, 01:25:47 PM »
Nick doesn't use kc5's in the design.  They are his own proprietary cables, similar to a kcy but thinner.  He does use the schoeps collette connector to mate with the caps.  But I do agree, there might be some value to integrating the CMR's into the design.  Might make for a smaller/lighter nbox.  I'm more interested in the possible adaptation into a flexible-cap ccm type setup.


well, it will always require another component for powering, like you mentioned, as you dont want phantom on for these. Something like you described that was basically a barrel which consisted of say, a full-size male xlr, pins 1 and 3 jumpered inside to an unbalanced connection, with an internal battery (I'm thinking 6V silver oxide), and a 3-pin mini xlr out to the mics is totally conceivable, and would be the same size and shape as a conventional xlr connector. Alternatively, make the battery external, and just run a wire out to a 9V in your gear bag.
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Offline Craig T

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Re: Schoeps CMR
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2008, 02:18:55 PM »
I think there's a relatively simple circuit to takte 48v phantom to 9v.  I used the DPA DAD6001 adaptors with my 4061's, the whole circuit was inside an xlr connector.  If the CMR's can run off 9v, I think someone with the knowledge/motivation could make something to allow connection to a phantom powered preamp without the need for additional batteries.  Of course, now you might be looking at something close to the size of a cmc6, so that might not make any sense.
Schoeps cmc6/4v / Line Audio CM3, OM1 / ADK A51 / Church Audio CA-14
Naiant Tinybox v2.2 / NBox(P) / Apogee Mini-MP / Church Audio ST9200 / CA-UGLY
Sony PCM-M10 / Tascam DR-70D

Online jerryfreak

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Re: Schoeps CMR
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2008, 02:36:26 PM »
duh, i totally had a pair of those here last week when i was testing xpandingman's at943 setup. I'll see if i can borrow them. they had a 3-pin output if i recall, but im not sure if power and signal are on different wires. the 4061 is a 2-wire mic.

I think there's a relatively simple circuit to takte 48v phantom to 9v.  I used the DPA DAD6001 adaptors with my 4061's, the whole circuit was inside an xlr connector.  If the CMR's can run off 9v, I think someone with the knowledge/motivation could make something to allow connection to a phantom powered preamp without the need for additional batteries.  Of course, now you might be looking at something close to the size of a cmc6, so that might not make any sense.
in:
small: MK4/4V > CMR > V3 or J.Williams Mod MicMan Jr or no pre at all >AD2K/R07/PCM-A10/Oade Warm 661/DR100-MKIII

smaller: 4061/4099 CORE or 4011/4018V> d:vice MMA



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shop: Musical Fidelity VLink 192 Asynchronyous> coax> DAC1 > Rokit RP8 active monitors

 

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