Topic: ADC comp: NJB3 v. D100 - wanna hear?

[Brian Skalinder]

Torrent attached, on STG tracker.

Obviously not scientific, but FWIW.


ADC comp: NJB3 v. D100

Playback gear:

Toshiba
smART DIO ADC >
Audio Experiences Symphonoies >
Adcom GFA-555
Magnepan MMGs / Pinnacle Babyboomer

Location: ~8' from speakers/sub, 4' up
Config: DIN (20cm, 90º)

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Source: MK4/KLY 250-2i > Sonosax SX-M2/LS2 (Lemosax) > D100
Conversion: D100 > Waveterminal 2496 (44.1k) > Audacity 1.0.0
Tracking: CD-Wave
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Lemosax at ~35 dB gain.
D100 set to line-in.
Rec level knob at 10.

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Source: MK4/KLY 250-2i > Sonosax SX-M2/LS2 (Lemosax) > NJB3
Conversion: NJB3 > FireConnect 4300 > Notmad Explorer > PC
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Lemosax at ~50 dB gain.
NJB3 set to line-in.
Rec level at 0 dB.

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One of the above sources is source 1, the other source 2. I'll tell you after you tell me: which do you prefer? bskalinder[at]yahoo.com

Song for both tracks is Frank Zappa's "Dirty Love".

[zhianosatch]

hey, the lemosax works!

[Brian Skalinder]

Re-built and -upped the .torrent, someone please try again?

[Nick in Edinboro]

Brian your such a geek!  I love it!  Big +T, was this due to that conversation on njb3tapers today about the DAP1?

[Brian Skalinder]

was this due to that conversation on njb3tapers today about the DAP1?

That one and a couple others over here as well.  I plan to run a comp in the field, too, though I'll have to knock the rec level on the D100 down a fair amount.

[Brian Skalinder]

Anyone?  None of you stealthers are interested in how the NJB3 stacks up against a well respected stealthable line-in and ADC stage (M1/D100)?!?

[phishmarisol]

I preferred the second one...but both sounded good.

[dklein]

Hey Brian - after a few good blind tests, I think people are getting scared to lay it on the line.  Makes it difficult to justify spending lots of money  

Here's a copy of my post from the stg board...

I played both of these on my laptop speakers and they both sound like crap.  (just kidding)

Let me start by saying I had a tough time choosing. Mic'g a set of speakers is definitely a good way of simulating the actual usage of the gear, but at the same time, it doesn't provide the highest quality source, which is helpful in distinguishing the ADC characteristics. But if you can't hear the difference with the setup you use, then I suppose it is actually a more relevant comparison!

Source 2 is louder, which always throws things off as we tend to prefer the louder source. I tried to match amplitude on the 2 samples (not easy because the spread was not consistent - almost as if source 2 was slightly compressed), burned all of the versions to cd and listened on a pretty decent playback system.

If I had to lay it on the line, I'd say I like source 2 better, but it is really, really close. The transients seemed a little cleaner, but again, I couldn't seem to perfectly match up the volume levels (covering my ass here).

Don't know if test says the JB3 A>D is good or if the D100 isn't...but I certainly don't hear any justification for a DAT device that costs 3X as much. Does the D100 have a well regarded pre/A>D?

Later the same day, I did a similar test running line signals into the JB3 (0 dB line-in) and my stock UA-5 (which uses the same A>D chip as some well known expensive gear). I kept adjusting the input levels of the UA-5 and re-recording the UA-5>JB3 until I got something that was within 0.2dB of the line-in JB3 without having to adjust with software (destructive processing). Once again, I thought the JB3 sounded great. As long as your signal is hot enough (hi sensitivity mics or a pre-amp in front), IMO, the JB3 is a completely acceptable analog recording device for our little hobby.

[Brian Skalinder]

If you don't want to know which source is which, don't read further!!  My reply on STG with a minor edit near the end:

Originally posted by dklein Source 2 is louder, which always throws things off as we tend to prefer the louder source.  I tried to match amplitude on the 2 samples  (not easy because the spread was not consistent - almost as if source 2 was slightly compressed), burned all of the versions to cd and listened on a pretty decent playback system.

I had the same difficulty matching levels both post as well as while recording.  Not as easy as I thought it would be!

Don't know if test says the JB3 A>D is good or if the D100 isn't...but I certainly don't hear any justification for a DAT device that costs 3X as much.  Does the D100 have a well regarded pre/A>D?

The M1 and D100 share the same analog stage and ADC and are regarded well among portable (stealthable) DAT recorders.

I found source 1 smoother and more detailed throughout the range:  tighter more defined bass, better transition from mids to both highs and lows, and smoother highs, with broader dynamics and a more coherent soundstage.

Source 2 seemed exaggerated in the lows and highs resulting in a punchier sound.  I found the lows a bit muddier, the mids a little fuzzier over all, and the highs more strident.

But I'd bet a few bucks that most people would not be able to guess which is which!  Which says to me the NJB3 fares pretty well when using its internal ADC.  

SOURCES REVEALED BELOW...don't read if you don't want to know.
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Source 1 = D100
Source 2 = NJB3

All that said, I didn't find the differences staggering, but definitely noticable.  Based on this comp, I'd feel comfortable running a line-level signal into the NJB3 in the field if I wasn't interested in, couldn't afford, or didn't want to smuggle in while stealthing an outboard ADC.

As long as your signal is hot enough  (hi sensitivity mics or a pre-amp in front), IMO, the JB3 is a completely acceptable analog recording device for our little hobby.

My sentiments exactly.  Thanks for the input, David.

[dklein]

hmmm....110 views and only 8 responses...

[Brian Skalinder]

hmmm....110 views and only 8 responses...

Yeah, too bad.  Only 10 people d/led the comp.  Guess most folks aren't interested - though I figured there'd be more discussion given how popular the NJB3 is becoming and considering there are probably plenty of stealthers and newbies interested in the NJB3.  I'll leave the comp up for a while, anyway, in case there are some stragglers.

[zhianosatch]

dling again...

[nickgregory]

for feedback as to one person didnt download it....First, in most cases, I will use the Mod SBM1 for stealthing and I doubt the NJB3 is in that league, and Second, in the cases where I have to go really stealth and not be able to get the SBM1 in, the size/shape of the D100 will beat that NJB3 out every time imho.  And the excuse of tell them it is an MP3 player will not fly at most venues I go to....you will be told to take it back to the car.  The last reason is the D100 comes with this nifty remote that does a great job at showing levels, which is a weak point on the NJB3 in my opinion.  With the D100 I can pull out the remote LCD (about the size of a half dollar) and get a quick guage on my levels...really nice perk in my opinion...

That being said, I am sure that the NJB3 is a nice unit...too many people are using it for it not to work well....just not for my immediate application.

[sickrick43]

Didn't bother (even tho' I run a D-10 Pro & a JB3), because my mic's aren't stealthy and I hate the metering on the JB3 too much to use it without a pre w/meters.

Aside from those 2 factors    the JB3 is probably as good on the input a/d side as most other "stealthable" solutions.  The one thing that would make it SUPER STEALTH was if someone knew whether the REMOTE worked in record mode.  If it DID, and you could control the whole setup from a small wired remote, while everything else was in the jacket pocket/pouch/etc., THAT would really tip the scales.

Rick

[Arglebargle]

I'm at work so I can't download it but I'd be very interested to hear thoughts and opinions.