Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: Edirol R-09 input woes  (Read 85343 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline pelusa

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Re: Edirol R-09 input woes
« Reply #30 on: September 14, 2006, 12:16:24 PM »
The defect occurred in my unit, which had brief and gentle use.  After looking at my Sony MD, and my cheap old cassette recorders, I see the  major difference in design is the open space around the input jack on the Edirol, which lets the jack absorb all the torque, with nothing immediately around it for support.  Engineering mistake, imo.

Offline guysonic

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1366
  • WISDOM FOR ALL TIMES
    • Sonic Studios DSM Stereo-Surround Microphone Systems
Re: Edirol R-09 input woes
« Reply #31 on: September 15, 2006, 07:37:56 AM »
The defect occurred in my unit, which had brief and gentle use.  After looking at my Sony MD, and my cheap old cassette recorders, I see the  major difference in design is the open space around the input jack on the Edirol, which lets the jack absorb all the torque, with nothing immediately around it for support.  Engineering mistake, imo.

Did a teardown of the R-09 deck in order to install a DSM mic powering MOD and looked into the input jack problem at the same time.  While I have used this deck for almost a month without jack problem, there is a potential problem with the SOLDERING OF THE JACKS TO THE PCB that if a little worse than on my unit will MAKE THE JACK'S SURFACE MOUNT SOLDERING BREAK. 

This may be all that is the problem with these jacks as the jack is not supported by much else than the soldering to the board, and a close-fitting collar where the jack protrudes through the case to the outside. 

Apparently, these jacks are placed onto the board that has some solder paste and then hot-air is applied to flow the solder paste to most the components that can take this kind of heat.  The jacks either did not get enough paste and/or not enough heat was applied to fully melt the solder.  Poor soldering and quality control.  These jacks should have gotten additional hand soldering as visual inspection usually shows this type of poor connection as mechanically prone to break after a few uses as many have experienced, and as I could easily see when doing the inspection before applying the modification for mic powering.

I soldered these jack terminals to look like the one marked GOOD, AND EXPECT NO FURTHER PROBLEMS with careful use of right angle molded plugs as is needed with most minijacks on minidecks.
"mics? I no got no mics!  Besides, I no have to show you no stink'n mics!" stxxlth taper's disclaimer

DSM HRTF STEREO-SURROUND RECORDING SYSTEMS WEBSITE: http://www.sonicstudios.com

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (14)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 13732
  • Gender: Male
  • Gunther Theile nailed it!
Re: Edirol R-09 input woes
« Reply #32 on: September 25, 2006, 04:55:57 PM »
[joins team broken line-in jack]  :(

Left channel wasn't registering during a pre-record test.  Checked the jack and it was slightly wobbly.  Switched to mic in and turned the MMA6000 down a bit to compensate and had no problem with recording that night and the next day/night.  Haven't listened closely over phones, but I didn't notice any detectable difference in noise playing back the resulting files. 

Grrr.  Now's when all the good music comes to town.

I can open it up and re-solder, but wondering if I should just try to get it covered under warranty.  Concerned with turn around time though, anyone with the broken input jack persuse a warranty claim yet?
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline hyperplane

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 377
Re: Edirol R-09 input woes
« Reply #33 on: September 25, 2006, 05:26:51 PM »
[joins team broken line-in jack]  :(

Left channel wasn't registering during a pre-record test.  Checked the jack and it was slightly wobbly.  Switched to mic in and turned the MMA6000 down a bit to compensate and had no problem with recording that night and the next day/night.  Haven't listened closely over phones, but I didn't notice any detectable difference in noise playing back the resulting files. 

Grrr.  Now's when all the good music comes to town.

I can open it up and re-solder, but wondering if I should just try to get it covered under warranty.  Concerned with turn around time though, anyone with the broken input jack persuse a warranty claim yet?

+T for your troubles.

I had sent mine into Roland while it was still under warranty. They got the unit on a Tuesday. By Thursday, I called to see what the diagnosis was. They said they hadn't even looked at the unit and that typical turnaround time was "2 weeks" for them to ship the item after they receive it.

It took a lot of arguing to get them to actually *take a look* at the unit in a somewhat timely manner; they said the tech assigned to my RA# was on vacation and wouldn't be back for a week. So, after much arguing, they got a new tech to take a look at it and they said they'd send me a replacement. And 3 business days later, said replacement was shipped. All in all, it took 2 weeks from the time I mailed my R-09 until I had the replacement in hand. If I hadn't called them up and argued with them, it would have been 3-4 weeks easily, since the tech they assigned to my "case" was on vacation.

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (14)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 13732
  • Gender: Male
  • Gunther Theile nailed it!
Re: Edirol R-09 input woes
« Reply #34 on: September 25, 2006, 05:33:06 PM »
Thanks Hyperplane,
That's about what I figured.

Freelunch,
Neutrino mentions disassembly here:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=65175.msg906758#msg906758 (reply#261 about halfway down the page)

Guysonic may have good disassembly advice too.

Pondering my options and looking at my schedule..
 
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline leehookem

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4440
  • Gender: Male
    • Texas Tapers
Re: Edirol R-09 input woes
« Reply #35 on: September 26, 2006, 03:34:51 AM »
for those with troubles...  could a hot pre-amp be the culprit?  try plugging everything in while the stuff in front of the R09 is turned off.
www.texastapers.org


AKG c480b ck61/ck63 > Tascam DR-70D
Oade ACM Marantz PMD-671
AKG ck61/63 > NBob Actives > Naiant PFA > Tascam DR-70D
Oade ACM Marantz PMD-671
Audiophile 2496 > Mytek Stereo96 DAC > Sony MDR-7506
Dual 1229 > Marantz 2270 > Kimber Kables > Cerwin Vega VS120

Canon Rebel XSi, EF 50 mm f/1.8, EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

Offline guysonic

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1366
  • WISDOM FOR ALL TIMES
    • Sonic Studios DSM Stereo-Surround Microphone Systems
Re: Edirol R-09 input woes
« Reply #36 on: September 26, 2006, 05:40:55 AM »
Thanks Hyperplane,
That's about what I figured.

Freelunch,
Neutrino mentions disassembly here:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=65175.msg906758#msg906758 (reply#261 about halfway down the page)

Guysonic may have good disassembly advice too.

Pondering my options and looking at my schedule..
 

Other than dropping a part, most critical is removing the back 'plate' to reveal the 3 screws, and maybe gentle 'unplugging treatment of top from bottom board. 

By accidental discovery, the paper-thin backside  'pulls out at the bottom' with slightest tug.  Found this out trying out first time removal of a Velcro attached preamp to be IMPOSSIBLE without 'pealing' the back up.  The bottom tabs let go immediately with ALMOST NO PULLING FORCE.  However, the 'top-edge' adhesive section underdeath' is more challenging for a knowing technique.   

So suggest applying a small adhesive-backed Velcro 'hook-side' patch in the lower mid of the back plate and give a gentle tug with the 'loop' side to unhook the tabs.  Pull the flexible back plate upwards a little, and maybe place a small popsicle stick underneath to keep tabs from reattaching.

The 1/2" wide adhesive strip under the top section does not let go easily, and needs special treatment so the extremely thin back plate doesn't crack.

Suggest using a small popsicle stick or similar implement to work the soft adhesive free with gentle 'twist-and-pry' motion in several glued places until the back cover is free.   

You can leave the Velcro patch attached as it is very useful for attaching the deck securely to a surface, and accessories find a natural home attached to the backside. 

However, I you want to use the Velcro for this purpose and NOT BREAK the back cover removing stuff, you WILL NEED TO TAPE the back cover 'seam' area.  See this TIP IN DETAIL near the bottom of the R-09 review page at: www.sonicstudios.com/r-09revw.htm

"mics? I no got no mics!  Besides, I no have to show you no stink'n mics!" stxxlth taper's disclaimer

DSM HRTF STEREO-SURROUND RECORDING SYSTEMS WEBSITE: http://www.sonicstudios.com

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (14)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 13732
  • Gender: Male
  • Gunther Theile nailed it!
Re: Edirol R-09 input woes
« Reply #37 on: September 26, 2006, 08:59:59 AM »
  See this TIP IN DETAIL near the bottom of the R-09 review page at: www.sonicstudios.com/r-09revw.htm

Leonard,
Great additional information and clarifications on an already thurough and informative review.

Thanks for the info and great work.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (14)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 13732
  • Gender: Male
  • Gunther Theile nailed it!
Re: Edirol R-09 input woes
« Reply #38 on: October 31, 2006, 06:09:47 PM »
^^^ You've got my courage up.  I guess it's my turn now.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

dorrcoq

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Edirol R-09 input woes
« Reply #39 on: October 31, 2006, 11:17:22 PM »

take digi-pics as you disassemble for easy reassmble. ;)

Now, there is a tip worth a +T

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (14)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 13732
  • Gender: Male
  • Gunther Theile nailed it!
Re: Edirol R-09 input woes
« Reply #40 on: November 01, 2006, 08:47:26 AM »
Thanks all. I’ll dive in this weekend. I've concerts tonight and Friday, thankfully the mic input has held out well in the interim.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline Church-Audio

  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 7573
  • Gender: Male
Re: Edirol R-09 input woes
« Reply #41 on: November 02, 2006, 11:50:41 AM »
I had this exact problem with the first R-09 I got from Sound Pros.

Unfortunately, I didn't get a chance to test out my R-09 until after it had already been over 30 days (due to getting repeatedly bad 2GB SD cards from an ebay seller, and the fact that no SD card came with the original R-09, I had no reason to plug mics into it if I couldn't even test out the recorder at home). So, at my first outting with it, the very first time I plugged my battery box into the R-09, the Line Input jack broke completely. It was picking up a signal (or so it appeared), but it was obviously not very usable in that condition.

Again, since I was over the 30-day warranty thing from the dealer (it was technically like 36 days), I had to go through Roland, and it was a nightmare from start to finish. (Which has made me contemplate never getting Roland products again... it should not be such a hassle to get a product that's still under warranty to be repaired/replaced).  They did, however, end up sending me a new unit after a ton of time spent on the phone arguing with them. I tried the input jacks on the replacement unit, and it seems to be much better.

FWIW, the original R-09 that I got had firmware version 1.02, and as I said, it did not even come with the crappy 64 MB SD card.  However, the replacement R-09 had firmware version 1.03 and came with a crappy 64 MB SD card. The newer R-09 also had specific instructions (with pictures) warning the user to use "CAUTION" when opening the (shoddy designed) battery door.

Overall, I do like the R-09 but I have to admit that I am concerned that the next time I plug mics into it, the Input jack will break. This should not be the case... I mean, come on, you can get a crappy walkman at WalMart and its input jack can take normal usage with flying colors... yet the $399 recorder by Roland flunked out on the first time when plugging something into its jack.


The main problem is 3.5 mm jacks of really good quality are not easy to find I think everyone should switch to these check them out. These are also available for standard panel mount.

http://www.btx.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=CA-C4407LKA&Category=4348ad2f-1b43-47dc-83b3-5cee8464acbf
for warranty returns email me at
EMAIL Sales@church-audio.com

Offline it-goes-to-eleven

  • Trade Count: (58)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 6703
Re: Edirol R-09 input woes
« Reply #42 on: November 02, 2006, 12:21:44 PM »
Chris, those look purty.. But I'm guessing with the length that they will tend to exert just as much force on the r09 jack?


New product - Get your NEUMANN active mounting bars
Active microphone mounting bars for Schoeps and AKG, and Naiant AKG, ready to ship

Offline Church-Audio

  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 7573
  • Gender: Male
Re: Edirol R-09 input woes
« Reply #43 on: November 02, 2006, 02:08:03 PM »
Chris, those look purty.. But I'm guessing with the length that they will tend to exert just as much force on the r09 jack?



Yes but if you use the pannel mount on a steel plate inside the box and not a pcb mount they will outlast any 3.5 mm connector. But alas that would cost to much money these connectors are used by Sony and AKG in there wireless products because they stand up better then the mini xlr connectors or even Hirose connectors.

for warranty returns email me at
EMAIL Sales@church-audio.com

Offline Carlos E. Martinez

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 246
  • Gender: Male
Re: Edirol R-09 input woes
« Reply #44 on: November 18, 2006, 06:20:33 PM »
If you are willing to accept some advice on how to better deal with the R-09 fragile inputs and outputs, I will gladly provide some guidelines.

From the three available high quality CF recorders in the market (Edirol-R09, M-Audio 24/96 and Zoom H4), the R-09 is the only one using prosumer inputs.

It's also the only one with un-balanced inputs, with no phantom power for professional mics.

OTOS it seems to be better in other areas, like sturdiness, takes large size CF cards, etc.

You can't do anything on the phantom power, and only Roland can change that on a future model (if any), but you can improve on the fragility of the mic and line inputs. Get yourself an Y cable, with a metal 1/8" stereo connector on one end and two XLR-3 females on the other, wired to take balanced mics or outputs.

Now this is the harder part of my advice: plug those Y-adaptors and never unplug them again. NEVER!!!

In such way you will preserve those fragile connectors.

You can do the same with the headphone output, but this is also the digital output, so that may be harder.

Let's hope this helps.

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.063 seconds with 57 queries.
© 2002-2020 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF