Topic: New Digital Mics

[rowjimmy]

I've seen folks using one of those car-starter/emergency power things:
http://tinyurl.com/2xgcac

These have AC outlets built in...

Terry

I actually have one of those heavy ass jumpstarter car battery deals.   That thing is friggin heavy!   Lots of juice though.

QFT
heavy as hell.
digital mics = step forward from analog mics (presumably)
"heavy ass jumpstart car batter deal" = step back from the SLA > Li_Ion movement of today.

Terry- you've seriously seen people running those at shows?

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

Terry- you've seriously seen people running those at shows?

I have actually.  I can't remember who it was, but there was a local NC guy who ran his UA5 and JB3 with one.  I've also seen someone else use one at a festival to run a MOTU (or something)...

Terry

[rowjimmy]

That would solve my laptop + Konnekt8 power issues...

The hernia would be another matter.

</threadjack>

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

That would solve my laptop + Konnekt8 power issues...

The hernia would be another matter.

</threadjack>

This guy only weighs 2.5 pounds:  http://tinyurl.com/2cnn4k

That's about 1/10 of the first item I posted.  400watts @ 12v should give you plenty of power and has 2 AC outlets...

Terry

[Church-Audio]

..... the A/D built into a professional console or stand alone converter is going to be better then any A/D you can build in to a small mic.

Er - NO.  The Neumann has a patented 28-bit A/D which is better than anything else on the market.  It is actually better than analogue.

But the one thing that can not be ignored is all of these mics still have a analog front end that still produces noise, I for one don't want a noise gate on my mic to reduce the noise floor.

The digital mics have only the diaphragm and an fet before the A/D converter.

I want to be able to use a high end preamp with a microphone with very little self noise to do that.

You have to allow headroom in the analogue pre-amp to avoid distortion and more headroom in the A/D to avoid distortion - these two headrooms reduce the overall dynamic range of the microphone by about 25dB.  As the A/D is 28-bit in the Neumann Solution-D series you digitise the capsule directly - the 28-bit converter has a better dynamic range than the capsule so you don't need to allow headroom and get everything.

I was actually not commenting on the Neumann product in particular, I was more or less making a generalized statement. I realize now that it got misconstrued as me taking a poke at the Neumann digital microphones. I assure you that was not my intention, I was thinking back to the Beyer dynamic digital mic and a few other mics that have surfaced in the last little while. I do not know enough about the Neumann to comment on its functionality. I feel that the future of digital microphone is very exciting its going to be an interesting next few years. I still dont see the live sound applications or the live recording applications. It seems even thought there is a 28 bit better then "analog" converter inside, as soon as one connects it to a 24 bit or 16 bit D/A that all the "MAGIC" that is being created might get lost in the translation. I still feel strongly that analog still has a long shelf life. But that's just my opinion.

Chris

[John Willett]

I was actually not commenting on the Neumann product in particular, I was more or less making a generalized statement. I realize now that it got misconstrued as me taking a poke at the Neumann digital microphones. I assure you that was not my intention,

I didn't think you were taking a poke at all, just not fully understanding how AES42 digital mics. work and I was just trying to put the record straight.

I was thinking back to the Beyer dynamic digital mic and a few other mics that have surfaced in the last little while.

While I take my hat off to Beyer for making the first digital mic. It was not that good, really, and the mic. it was based on was a bit noisy to start with.  But as a tool for seeing how digital would go it was a good idea and paved the way for the AES42 standard we have today.

It seems even thought there is a 28 bit better then "analog" converter inside, as soon as one connects it to a 24 bit or 16 bit D/A that all the "MAGIC" that is being created might get lost in the translation.

The output from the mic. is 24-bit as that is the AES42 standard - the software optimises adjusts the 24-bit output to the 28-bit original so you get the best output possible.

I still feel strongly that analog still has a long shelf life. But that's just my opinion.

I agree with you completely here.  Digital microphones are a new tool that is ideal in many circumstances; but, especially for stage work, analogue microphones will be around for very very many years yet.

I hope this clarifies things.

[Brian]

how can the representation of sound be better than the sound itself?

Er - NO.  The Neumann has a patented 28-bit A/D which is better than anything else on the market.  It is actually better than analogue.

or are you just saying it has better specs because that, no doubt, is true.  i have reservations that it sounds better though.

[stirinthesauce]

Terry- you've seriously seen people running those at shows?

I have actually.  I can't remember who it was, but there was a local NC guy who ran his UA5 and JB3 with one.  I've also seen someone else use one at a festival to run a MOTU (or something)...

Terry

That is Joel.  I've done this myself back when I laptop taped and needed an expensive, long lasting power solution.  Of course my batt weighs like 30lbs so it stays in my trunk for the intended purpose of jumpstarting my car.  Also come in handy when the power goes out, I can charge my phone, lappy, whatever.  Great for the campsite at festies too.

[John Willett]

how can the representation of sound be better than the sound itself?

It's not - but an analogue signal in a microphone is also a representation of the sound and not the sound itself.

Taking the limitations of analogue circuitry it needs a 28-bit A/D to equal or slightly better it.  I think the theoretical maximum s/n is 128dB limited by Johnson noise - the theoretical of a 28-bit converter is 130dB.

I think I have my figures correct (no doubt someone will correct me if I'm wrong).

[Brian]

hmmmm....i wouldn't say "representation".  as you definitely are aware, the standard microphone converts acoustical energy (the sound itself) to electrical energy.  obviously different microphones "shape" that sound a different way but the same energy is there, just in electrical form.  so, recorded to tape, it is the sound itself.  once through ad conversion it's then a digital representation based upon samples of the sound "itself".

i think we agree.....just different semantics i suppose. 

/thread digression.