Topic: so what does the 722 sound like?

[marc0789]

might be a little too early, but for those with experience with this thing, what would you compare the sound to?

[dmonterisi]

m148>adk with adjustable gain. 

[Brian Skalinder]

What difference does it make - you're gonna think it sounds like ass, anyway! 

[marc0789]

What difference does it make - you're gonna think it sounds like ass, anyway! 

c'mon, unfair. you're the one cracking on akgs the other day. the only box I think sounds like ass is the v3.

seriously clowns, what would you say it sounds like?

[dmonterisi]

unfair?  this is taperssection.com, when did fairness come into play here?

[nickgregory]

most everyone has had the box for 2 days and Marc is looking for what they sound like...funny stuff

there will be tapes from raleigh on monday assuming Tim and I can get it to work tonight at the bridge and him on his own at Mule tomorrow though

[mmedley.]

FYI, just got a listmail from 24bit Yahoo group and Nutter is offering BnP's of Mule with the 744T. Might wanna contact him for a BnP.

Edit:

They are 24/176

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

seriously clowns, what would you say it sounds like?

I have not had time to move the files over to DVD yet.  I did listen with headphones but not good ones so extension is not there when I listened.  

First impression is a very clean and crisp sound.  Not warm at all.  There is probably more detail than these headphones will reveal because I have heard my V3 source though these and then my main system.

I hope to get time tomorrow to make a DVD and get these on the big system.  I don't have the right cables to just patch it in yet.

This was not a great room or sound system.  I'll put up c'ville mule on Monday night.

most everyone has had the box for 2 days and Marc is looking for what they sound like...funny stuff

Yeah, this still bothers me that none of the demo 744 stuff was ever circulated.  I guess there was no motivation with so many pre-ordered units.

[wbrisette]

seriously clowns, what would you say it sounds like?

There are a couple of things to keep in mind. First, we are talking SD here. A company that is making these for video/film (and yes tapers), their 442, which is what I gather was the basis for the preamp is crystal clear (ie. transparent)... My guess is it is going to sound like whatever your mics are that you toss up in front of the unit. I highly doubt you're going to find Doug or anybody else wanting to screw with this unit to make it sound any different than it does.

Second, 24-bit recording really has it's own sound. Trying to compare 24-bit to 16-bit recordings I find tough to do because of the level of detail in the 24-bit recordings.

Now, back to the ass question... why is it everybody wants to eithe stick this thing down their pants, or keeps wanting to know about ass?... 

Wayne

[marc0789]

most everyone has had the box for 2 days and Marc is looking for what they sound like...funny stuff

there will be tapes from raleigh on monday assuming Tim and I can get it to work tonight at the bridge and him on his own at Mule tomorrow though

I thought kwon and nutter had been running them for awhile. vicous assclowns, all of you.

[dmonterisi]

most everyone has had the box for 2 days and Marc is looking for what they sound like...funny stuff

Yeah, this still bothers me that none of the demo 744 stuff was ever circulated.  I guess there was no motivation with so many pre-ordered units.

yeah, but some of that demo stuff had fallen into the hands of people other than the retailers and I don't recall seeing anything circulated other than 1 flawed comp disc, but maybe i missed it.

[Mic D]

My guess is it is going to sound like whatever your mics are that you toss up in front of the unit.

It has a very distinct sound to my ears. I can't really discribe it right now, though. It's not transparent at all, imo. If anything, it's colored. So far i've heard the box with 140's and mk41's, and I can hear the 722/44 in both sources.

[dmonterisi]

My guess is it is going to sound like whatever your mics are that you toss up in front of the unit.

It has a very distinct sound to my ears. I can't really discribe it right now, though. It's not transparent at all, imo. If anything, it's colored. So far i've heard the box with 140's and mk41's, and I can hear the 722/44 in both sources.

how is the low-end?  that's my biggest concern, that the low-end might get a little sloppy. 

[Kwonfidelity]

From initial thoughts, it is much more clear than the 442.  I've been running the sd mixer for over two years now and I've always liked the sound of the front end - pretty transparent, bust also based on Lundahl transformers.  (mk/kc5/cmc>442>v3...)

The sound of the 744T is even more transparent but it also seems to warm over on the top end.  In a 24bit enivronment this shaping is good especially if you have been listening to 24bit for a while - you'll certainly hear the difference of the accuracy on the higher ends because of this trend, instead of at times brittle audio that can be found within the 24bit world.  Some may hear this as colorization, and in essence it is.  But at large it enhances what is already a sensitive region of the sound spectrum.

I listen just about everything through monitors, and the open air of the sound leaves me gasping at what this little armored box can do.

Wayne nails it.  I've taped Schoeps and B&Ks with the 744T.  Your tapes will sound like the mics you put on it.  

[dmonterisi]

kwon-

are you running it with the xt bodies?  have you done any comps with the regular 6's?

[Kwonfidelity]

We did a comp a while back with the xts and the non xts.

Without getting into it, we sold all of our xts and went back to the cmc6s.

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

Yeah, this still bothers me that none of the demo 744 stuff was ever circulated.  I guess there was no motivation with so many pre-ordered units.

yeah, but some of that demo stuff had fallen into the hands of people other than the retailers and I don't recall seeing anything circulated other than 1 flawed comp disc, but maybe i missed it.

That flawed comp was the only thing I ever got to taste.  I guess that I just expected that for as long as those demo boxes were in the field, someone would publish a recording.  But it never came.  Doesn't really matter I guess.  I was already committed to buying the box and hanging onto the V3.  And after next week I'm sure there will be more than enough 722 records floating around.

What can I say.  I'm needy and high maintenance.

[Mic D]

My guess is it is going to sound like whatever your mics are that you toss up in front of the unit.

It has a very distinct sound to my ears. I can't really discribe it right now, though. It's not transparent at all, imo. If anything, it's colored. So far i've heard the box with 140's and mk41's, and I can hear the 722/44 in both sources.

how is the low-end? that's my biggest concern, that the low-end might get a little sloppy.

Slightly bloated/colored, imo, but not too loose.

I can hear the 722's characteristics best when a drumer is playing fills and of course, when a bass player is playing.


edit: and when I say "bloated/colored", I dont neccessarily mean that in a bad way.

[wboswell]

We did a comp a while back with the xts and the non xts.

Without getting into it, we sold all of our xts and went back to the cmc6s.

thanks for telling me that now, after you sold them to me... 

[F.O.Bean]

We did a comp a while back with the xts and the non xts.

Without getting into it, we sold all of our xts and went back to the cmc6s.

thanks for telling me that now, after you sold them to me...

OUCH

[cascademedia]

I agree with Robert...

Very transparent, it brings out the best of the Schoeps :-)

Also, I did circulate some of my recordings from ACL Fest last year using the 744t.   I dont have alot of time for BTs etc, but I did do some B&Ps. 

[Kwonfidelity]

thanks for telling me that now, after you sold them to me... 

Whoa!  I covered that with you in detail, William.  One other "Southeastern" taper was involved in this conversation, without naming names.  I can have him concur if you don't recollect.

There isn't anything audible that we found wrong with the xts, it's all theoretical - well more technical.  We call it the XT lift.  What happens to the response curve above the 20khz is something we didn't feel comfortable with.  A dip, then a lift before it fades into 50khz.  You can't hear it, you can just see it on an analog oscilliscope.

Hope that bumped a memory.

[wboswell]

I was kidding...  but thanks for the phone call to confirm!

[Joe w.]

marc, we must join forces to hate on this box. entirely too much fluffing going on 

what's up with that big ass battery sticking out the back anyway? poor design

[F.O.Bean]

you got it joe

still looks suite tho, the 722 looks so 'empty' compared to the 744t tho, dont yinz agree

maybe because it just doesnt have as many flashing lights, i dunno

[marc0789]

marc, we must join forces to hate on this box. entirely too much fluffing going on 

what's up with that big ass battery sticking out the back anyway? poor design

yep, a little too much fluffing for an all in one box built by that master of preamps, Sound Devices, not to mention about a year late. Every single other "all in one", including the Portadat, has not quite been all that. We will see. Gotta hear some before any actual slagging occurs.

[wboswell]

marc, we must join forces to hate on this box. entirely too much fluffing going on 

what's up with that big ass battery sticking out the back anyway? poor design

yep, a little too much fluffing for an all in one box built by that master of preamps, Sound Devices, not to mention about a year late. Every single other "all in one", including the Portadat, has not quite been all that. We will see. Gotta hear some before any actual slagging occurs.

Though late, the 722 has alot over the pdr1000(imo): 1)cheaper 2)smaller 3)no 12v 4)24bit.  But your mileage may vary.

Bean-
you're right, the 722 does look empty in the pictures, but in person, you don't notice as much. 

I have a solution for the battery sticking out.  I'll snap a picture when I have access to a digital camera.  Basically, its mini-cel foam with a hole cut out for the battery.  The foam supports the load of the machine.

[scb]

the portadat probably sounded pretty good at the time it was released.

an east coast audio ENG guy/retailer has said:

"if you like millenia pres, you'll like the 722"

[wbrisette]

an east coast audio ENG guy/retailer has said:

"if you like millenia pres, you'll like the 722"

Wonder what he says about the Deva and Nagra? I'm curious....

Wayne

[Mojowill]

so how do you flip the tape?

[scb]

i got bored and ran a comparison off my stereo at home.  i have no idea if it will reveal anything, or if anyone's interested in checking it out, but i have four 1.5 minute flac files of 24/96 of "Red Rain" from Peter Gabriel's "Secret World Live"

i ran it at medium stereo levels so i didn't blast too loud, but also to make the pre's use some gain to maybe see if that told anything about the sound

the 4 files are :

4022 > v3 all in one
4022 > v3 pre > mytek stereo192 a/d
4022 > v3 pre > 722 a/d
4022 > 722 pre and a/d


maybe tomorrow i'll blast the stereo at high volumes and see if that does anything

though maybe this was dumb.  but hey, i got bored when thhe show i was going to go to tonight ended up sold out and i had nothing to tape

[nickgregory]

pat mcgee band sold out?  damn...maybe we're missing something Scott

[scb]

it was stephen kellogg at a cafe that probably holds 50 people in bridgeport, ct

[nickgregory]

it was stephen kellogg at a cafe that probably holds 50 people in bridgeport, ct

makes more sense...for some reason I thought it was a PMB show...

[CQBert]

You are not missing anythiing by not seeing PMB....  Go for the opener - especially if it's Granian. 

[Mic D]

I have a solution for the battery sticking out. I'll snap a picture when I have access to a digital camera. Basically, its mini-cel foam with a hole cut out for the battery. The foam supports the load of the machine.

I was going to wait a little while before I asked you for another one.

I figured the one you made me for my v2 will be perfect for this.

[scb]

You are not missing anythiing by not seeing PMB....  Go for the opener - especially if it's Granian. 

oh god...granian is horrible

old PMB was good. 

[scb]

tonight we had 2 722s and some other toys.  for the opening set of carbon leaf we ran 4022>  v3  > 722 @ 24/96 and 4021 > 722 @ 24/96

for the big head todd set we had 4022 > v3 (analog out) > mytek stereo192 > 722 @24/96 and 4021 > 722 @ 24/96

might give an idea of what the 722 can do on its own vs some other gear

[F.O.Bean]

+T for the comp scott

if you feel like bnp'ing that, lemme know

[John R]

tonight we had 2 722s and some other toys.  for the opening set of carbon leaf we ran 4022>  v3  > 722 @ 24/96 and 4021 > 722 @ 24/96

for the big head todd set we had 4022 > v3 (analog out) > mytek stereo192 > 722 @24/96 and 4021 > 722 @ 24/96

might give an idea of what the 722 can do on its own vs some other gear

comp up at tapers.org

[scb]

thanks to john for hosting

i'd love to hear what people think

i'll get a track or 2 of the opener (straight v3 vs straight 722) to him as well

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

comp up at tapers.org

What is the path to these?

[scb]

http://tapers.org/public/

is showing a "comparison" directory

[Flarnet]

The most striking fact is that the recordings manage to drift more than a quarter of a second in reference to eachother over the course of a few scant minutes.

[scb]

really?  i hadn't tried comparing them yet

[Tim]

The most striking fact is that the recordings manage to drift more than a quarter of a second in reference to eachother over the course of a few scant minutes.

maybe I'm missing something but why is that striking? I've never had two seperate digital recorders not drift.

[dmonterisi]

The most striking fact is that the recordings manage to drift more than a quarter of a second in reference to eachother over the course of a few scant minutes.

maybe I'm missing something but why is that striking? I've never had two seperate digital recorders not drift.

yeah, but that seems like a lot of drift...i don't have too much experience comparing files, but if this is 1/4 of a sec every three minutes, that's 5 full seconds in a 1 hour set.  that seems like a lot doesn't it?

[Tim]

I don't honestly know. I haven't dealt with that issue in years... even if it is a lot, does it really matter?

on a related note, is there a word clock out on the 722 to sync it up?

[John R]

on a related note, is there a word clock out on the 722 to sync it up?

yes

[Tim]

on a related note, is there a word clock out on the 722 to sync it up?

yes

Thanks John!

[scb]

no one has any thoughts on sound yet?

[Flarnet]

I have lots of thoughts on the sound, but I fear they are all microphone differences.

It's not a HUGE issue that they drift, but its rather a lot. It's one cent down in 6 minutes. After 600 minutes (ok, no show is that long) it's a WHOLE half-tone out of tune. That is an issue.

[scb]

4021s and 4022s are the same microphones.  one just cable the cable coming out the back while the other is out the side

and i've had shows where i ran an ad2k and a friend ran an ad1k and after 2 hours there was a 15 second difference...

[marc0789]

anyone? what does this thing sound like? scared to say?

[MattD]

anyone? what does this thing sound like? scared to say?

Afraid to download and form your own opinion?

[marc0789]

anyone? what does this thing sound like? scared to say?

Afraid to download and form your own opinion?

technologically challenged. can't download.

[scb]

marc's in the stone age, matt. don't mind him

[marc0789]

marc's in the stone age, matt. don't mind him

my ears were built at 16 bits and non-upgradeable. 

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

technologically challenged. can't download.

In the media trading forum, I offered a B&P of the charlottesville mule show.  Offer is still open.

[not logged in]

bittersweet is a catchy tune....

i like scott's better than mine, although not as much as i was expecting.  but only listening with headphones.

[scb]

i plan on listening to both tonight.  i still haven't done the direct comparison

[dmonterisi]

to be honest, i think people are being pretty cautious about making statements about this box just yet.  there aren't a whole lot of sources out, and yours is the only comparison disc that i know of being done.  but i don't care about comparison downloads.  also, 24bit is still not all that common, and those of us who do listen to 24bit recordings, I imagine, are a bit more circumspect in making broad statements about the box until we've heard it a bit more.  from the two sources I have heard, I was only at 1 of the shows, so it's impossible to get a real frame of reference.  both sources were km140s>sd722 (mule 2-20-05 and wilco 2-23-05) so marc you can stop reading now.    i found the 722 to be very laid back and musical, with a big, rounded bottom end.  i have always found that the real benefit of 24bit recordings is in tightening up the lower frequencies.  this seems to accomplish that well.  the 140s can get loose in the low end and mule is certainly a bass-heavy tape, but there is no sign of bloated bass.  it sounds very accurate (though i wasn't at the show) and round.  not very warm though.  from my memory of the wilco show, the 722 sounds very accurate.  It sounds very much like what i remember at the show.  sound was good that night, but not great, and you can hear the limitations of the mix in the "tape".  the dynamic range advantage from working in 24 bit is more evident in the wilco tape, but that's not too surprising given the types of bands and the venues (wilco was at the 930 which is a very good sounding room).  I don't know if any of my rambling makes any sense at all.

overall, i think it sounds pretty neutral, a little bit less detailed than a v3, and with less presence, but just as, if not more musical.  but this is just an impression off of two different bands in different rooms.  the only constant here is the microphone.

EDIT: I ran the 722 for wilco while michael ran it for mule.  I have a few issues with the design, but overall it's a very easy box to use.  I don't particularly like the metering.  however, i may have been in the wrong metering mode (not sure if it was peak or the basic one).  but i found myself running the levels too conservatively because I was concerned about overs.  there are 10 LEDs between -40 and -20 but only 3 between -12 and over.  that doesn't make *any* sense to me.  midway through the first wilco song when i was well into the red, i backed the levels off and peaked at around -10 to -8 the rest of the show.  well, the first half of the first track sounds markedly better than the next few songs till i got it dialed in more.  but i still wish i had pushed the box more to take advantage of more of the dyanmic range.  it's too bad the meters seem to be more pretty than they are useful.

EDIT again: i'm sure the metering issue becomes easier to deal with once you've run the box a few times and get a feel for how it runs. 

[Tim]

It's not a HUGE issue that they drift, but its rather a lot. It's one cent down in 6 minutes. After 600 minutes (ok, no show is that long) it's a WHOLE half-tone out of tune. That is an issue.

huh?

since no show is that long it's not an issue. I think you're fishing here....

[Flarnet]

Provided that the microphones sound exactly the same (a concept which I am extremely sceptical towards):

B has sort of a "smiley" frequency curve compared to A. If this is due to A being midrange-heavy (which makes A flat) or due to A imposing a smiley EQ on the material, that I cannot say. But I cannot help getting irritated at some weird phase issues in said midrange of A.

I like neither actually. This is one villager who needs to hear more to pass ultimate judgement.

[Mic D]

i found the 722 to be very laid back and musical, with a big, rounded bottom end.

I totally agree with you on the bottom end. Big and rounded is what I hear too.

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

http://tapers.org/public/

is showing a "comparison" directory

I'm not getting access to the directory structure after connecting to the ftp server.  Is there a very long latency response to ls after connecting?


Edit: gui client was putting server into passive mode, causing problem for the server.

[scb]

Provided that the microphones sound exactly the same (a concept which I am extremely sceptical towards):

B has sort of a "smiley" frequency curve compared to A. If this is due to A being midrange-heavy (which makes A flat) or due to A imposing a smiley EQ on the material, that I cannot say. But I cannot help getting irritated at some weird phase issues in said midrange of A.

I like neither actually. This is one villager who needs to hear more to pass ultimate judgement.

it's not a question of "do you like the recordings?" but one of "what do you notice that's different about the recordings?"

what do you mean by "smiley" curve?

[Tim]

an eq curve that looks like a smiley face, a big dip in the midrange

[dmonterisi]

an eq curve that looks like a smiley face, a big dip in the midrange

so i should start putting that in my source info when i seed a show?  I apply that curve to everything i seed, is this wrong? 

[scb]

so he's calling A more transparent than B, which he says has less midrange

ok. 

i'm interested to listen tonight

[dmonterisi]

so he's calling A more transparent than B, which he says has less midrange

ok. 

i'm interested to listen tonight

i don't think that's what he is saying.  I think he is saying that B has less midrange than A.  that doesn't mean to me that either is transparent, just a comparison of the midrange response of the two sources.

[Tim]

an eq curve that looks like a smiley face, a big dip in the midrange

so i should start putting that in my source info when i seed a show? I apply that curve to everything i seed, is this wrong?

[MattD]

an eq curve that looks like a smiley face, a big dip in the midrange

so i should start putting that in my source info when i seed a show? I apply that curve to everything i seed, is this wrong?

Does Cassius react differently to 24/96 vs. 24/48? How about when you apply the EQ?

[dmonterisi]

an eq curve that looks like a smiley face, a big dip in the midrange

so i should start putting that in my source info when i seed a show? I apply that curve to everything i seed, is this wrong?

Does Cassius react differently to 24/96 vs. 24/48? How about when you apply the EQ?

he reacts differently to surround recordings...the first time i listened to the sacd of DSOTM, he was freaking out.

[scb]

so he's calling A more transparent than B, which he says has less midrange

ok. 

i'm interested to listen tonight

i don't think that's what he is saying.  I think he is saying that B has less midrange than A.  that doesn't mean to me that either is transparent, just a comparison of the midrange response of the two sources.

ok...i took one having a "smiley" curve to it to mean the other was flatter...

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

track A has slightly tighter bass which seems more even in the mix
track B the bass is more accentuated and marginally not as tight

something in track B is fatiguing but can't pin point it
in track A, the vocals seemed a bit more forward

I'm not really sensing a midband dip in sample B, the HF seems pretty even between the two but B seems to have more presence when the sound is mostly crowd.  Maybe that coupled with the LF accentuation could be considered a "smiley" curve?

Overall, track A sounds a bit better to me.  Disclaimer, I have maybe 15 hours on these new speakers and I do not have them dialed in wrt placement.  I may have to switch back to the thiels and compare notes again since I have 1000s of hours listening to those.

Scott, is it possible for you to put out more tracks of the comparison?  There are some things that I listen for when comparing recordings and that one track didn't have all of what I was after. 

I would really be interested in hearing the straight V3 vs 722 carbonleaf comp if that is available because I am very familiar with the v3 and have only one other sample of the mytech

Sarcastic aside: I'm sure all these subtle differences can be attributed to the axial vs radial egress of the mic cable.

[scb]

i have another track of the straight 722 source.  i can upload that and the track from mine too.  it's actually the track right after the one i already put up.  "not logged in" sent both as 1 file

[scb]

uploaded the next track to the server

[MattD]

I used Foobar's ABX plugin to compare the two files (BHTM - Bittersweet) to see if I could distinguish a difference. I did 25 trials to at least give myself a big enough sample to base a judgment upon and was able to distinguish about 90% of the time. I was listening on PC > coax out > ULN-2 > Sennheiser HD-600.

Since I could tell a difference, I will say A has the "bigger" low end and sounds more musical. B sounds more detailed and flatter across the range and I'm guessing it sounds more like it did in the venue.

Based on those observations and what I've heard from 3rd parties, I will guess A is the 722 and B is the V3>Mytek. On this particular recording, I like A better.

[MattD]

EDIT again: i'm sure the metering issue becomes easier to deal with once you've run the box a few times and get a feel for how it runs.

It is a little annoying, but the red lights on the left hit at -3 dB and you can program where the 0 indictaor actually lights (so you could set it at -1 dBFS and teach yourself to just barely pop that light). Another thing you could do is use the limiter and keep everything to -6 and below. Upon immediate review, the metering on the ULN-2 is better.

(For reference, the ULN-2 has -54, -42, -30, -18, -12, -9, -6, -3, -1, clip ...   -12 and below are green, -1 through -9 are orange, and clip is red and has a temporary hold of a few seconds. I prefer this to the V3's metering, except I like the clip reset function on the V3.)

[scb]

Since I could tell a difference, I will say A has the "bigger" low end and sounds more musical. B sounds more detailed and flatter across the range and I'm guessing it sounds more like it did in the venue.

i think "b" has bigger low end.  you sure you meant a?

[MattD]

Don't mess with me! I said what I said. Maybe it's my use of "bigger" in this context that's confusing? Maybe "warmer" is mroe of what I should have been going for, and I should have directed that adjective at the lower midrange (bass fundamentals) rather than low end (implying kick drum attacks).

[marc0789]

i found the 722 to be very laid back and musical, with a big, rounded bottom end.

I totally agree with you on the bottom end. Big and rounded is what I hear too.

that sounds like maybe a sound devices characteristic.

[nickgregory]

so I borrowed Tims 722 and ran it last night at Big Head Todd...no real comments on sound yet as I have not had a chance to do more than a cursory listen, but one thing I thought was interesting, I had his 722, in the portabrace bag made for it, in my mountainsmith bag on the floor next to the stand, and between the bass thumping and the people dancing, the floor was definitely bouncing.  I was a little concerned with the 722 being a HD that the vibration may affect it.  Having not listened to it, only watching it, it didnt seem to hiccup at all.  Will report more when I listen...

Also, the portrabrace bag is sweet, expensive, but basically it suspends the unit in the bag, and fits the huge battery.  Due to the fact that it suspended the whole unit up, I was able to run it vertically, since the back of the unit was even, vs. when the big ass battery is the back...

[Tim]

nice, I didn't know that portabrace had made a bag for these boxes... very cool, they make some quality stuff.

[trajhip2000]

note that portabrace makes 2 accessory bags that can attach to the CS-7 SD 722/744 bag - the RM-Multi and the larger RM-Deluxe. I have the multi, which has a larger pocket with a clear front that fits a V3 and Wal-mart battery quite nicely (and has a zippered opening in the back for routing cables), and a smaller pocket that you can put small cables, Etymotic headphones etc. in.

Steve

[Tim]

you could roll with some actives and a 722 in just a portabrace bag



almost makes me want to tape again...

[nickgregory]

I went out with Tims last night having told my wife that I really didnt need the 722 so dont worry about me pulling any trigger...as I walked to the club though, with this light ass bag on my shoulder, I began to rethink that decision...I am hoping it sounds like shit when I listen to it tonight...because I have a feeling if I buy one of these, and the JK Labs system in the next month, that will be grounds for divorce

[dmonterisi]

I went out with Tims last night having told my wife that I really didnt need the 722 so dont worry about me pulling any trigger...as I walked to the club though, with this light ass bag on my shoulder, I began to rethink that decision...I am hoping it sounds like shit when I listen to it tonight...because I have a feeling if I buy one of these, and the JK Labs system in the next month, that will be grounds for divorce

don't you have gear you could sell to finance the 722 and then convince her that the since you no longer have the cost of media, it would make up for the difference?

[John R]

almost makes me want to tape again...

you're done, you just haven't admitted it to yourself yet


new comps are up at tapers.org  file is morecomparisons   tracks sre next songs of concert

[Tim]

almost makes me want to tape again...

you're done, you just haven't admitted it to yourself yet

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

that will be grounds for divorce

Well then, problem solved!


I'm with Damon on the gear sale strategy.  I got two big purchases this month, so I'm selling off parts of my old rigs and making sure that she sees the boxes packed and labeled before I ship them.  I make sure that she sees more boxes leave than arrive and that helps ;-)

[Brian Skalinder]

new comps are up at tapers.org file is morecomparisons tracks sre next songs of concert

JR - so comparisons and morecomparisons are the same source?

4022 > v3 (analog out) > mytek stereo192
4021 > 722

I've skimmed through the thread and haven't seen it, so...is the straight V3 v. 722 Scott did posted anywhere?  Not bitching, just curious...I know it takes some work to put all these comps together, so thanks to everyone involved in the effort...

[nickgregory]

I went out with Tims last night having told my wife that I really didnt need the 722 so dont worry about me pulling any trigger...as I walked to the club though, with this light ass bag on my shoulder, I began to rethink that decision...I am hoping it sounds like shit when I listen to it tonight...because I have a feeling if I buy one of these, and the JK Labs system in the next month, that will be grounds for divorce

don't you have gear you could sell to finance the 722 and then convince her that the since you no longer have the cost of media, it would make up for the difference?

trust me, I was scheming that last night...

[dmonterisi]

  just make sure you have enough to buy her something at the same time...

[nickgregory]

just make sure you have enough to buy her something at the same time...

ah yes, the bribe...the key to a happy marriage

[scb]

new comps are up at tapers.org file is morecomparisons tracks sre next songs of concert

JR - so comparisons and morecomparisons are the same source?

4022 > v3 (analog out) > mytek stereo192
4021 > 722

I've skimmed through the thread and haven't seen it, so...is the straight V3 v. 722 Scott did posted anywhere?  Not bitching, just curious...I know it takes some work to put all these comps together, so thanks to everyone involved in the effort...

the mytek was run for the big head todd set.  the carbon leaf opener was the v3 vs. 722.  i don't have the straight 722 files from that yet

"not logged in," are you around?

[not logged in]

the mytek was run for the big head todd set.  the carbon leaf opener was the v3 vs. 722.  i don't have the straight 722 files from that yet

"not logged in," are you around?

a selection from the opening act was uploaded to you at the same time as bhtm tracks, under the clever name "opening act".  or at least i thought it was.  if not, i can do so tonight.....

[John R]

new comps are up at tapers.org file is morecomparisons tracks sre next songs of concert

JR - so comparisons and morecomparisons are the same source?

4022 > v3 (analog out) > mytek stereo192
4021 > 722

I've skimmed through the thread and haven't seen it, so...is the straight V3 v. 722 Scott did posted anywhere?  Not bitching, just curious...I know it takes some work to put all these comps together, so thanks to everyone involved in the effort...

see scott's post above

[not logged in]

note that portabrace makes 2 accessory bags that can attach to the CS-7 SD 722/744 bag - the RM-Multi and the larger RM-Deluxe. I have the multi, which has a larger pocket with a clear front that fits a V3 and Wal-mart battery quite nicely (and has a zippered opening in the back for routing cables), and a smaller pocket that you can put small cables, Etymotic headphones etc. in.

can the 722 and v3 be run vertically with the accessory bag attached?

and what's a "Wal-mart" battery!?!

thanks

[scb]

the mytek was run for the big head todd set.  the carbon leaf opener was the v3 vs. 722.  i don't have the straight 722 files from that yet

"not logged in," are you around?

a selection from the opening act was uploaded to you at the same time as bhtm tracks, under the clever name "opening act".  or at least i thought it was.  if not, i can do so tonight.....

oh, then i'm an idiot.  you're probably right.  i didn't see it that night but thats probably just because it wasn't done yet

i'll check after work tonight. 

[scb]

anyone have a picture of this portabrace bag?

[nickgregory]

I will take a few pics of Tim's tonight....I must have the deluxe because it is only big enough for the 722...

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

anyone have a picture of this portabrace bag?

for the impatient http://www.sounddevices.com/download/guides/cs7.pdf

[dmonterisi]

given how hot the 722 runs, is there enough ventilation in those bags?  i've never used them for any gear, but i imagine they'd be designed pretty well.

[nickgregory]

so last night, the 722 in a portabrace, in my mountainsmith, on the floor of a hot club, it get hot to the touch, but not burning hot like I have seen some of the apogee stuff become....in the summer though I would think it will get hot

[nickgregory]

anyone have a picture of this portabrace bag?

for the impatient http://www.sounddevices.com/download/guides/cs7.pdf

yeah, thats the one that Tim has

[scb]

when i ran the 722 sat at 24/192, it was in the case logic case in a backpack and even like that heat wasn't a problem

[wbrisette]

almost makes me want to tape again...

I've seen you post this at least a dozen times now. I'd say that means it's time. Buy the box, some mics and just get busy! 

Wayne

[wbrisette]

don't you have gear you could sell to finance the 722 and then convince her that the since you no longer have the cost of media, it would make up for the difference?

Sad part is I did that for with my old gear, so far I'm only 9K in the hole with the Deva. 

(although, it looks like I might have found a buyer for my Wendt X4 mixer, so that will bring it down to 7.5K)

[Tim]

almost makes me want to tape again...

I've seen you post this at least a dozen times now. I'd say that means it's time. Buy the box, some mics and just get busy!

Wayne

i've got an itchy trigger finger but I'm holding off until after the bar exam

[F.O.Bean]

timmay is coming back woooooooooooooohooooooooooo

[nickgregory]

Here are some more comprehensive pics.  As you can see in the rear picture, there is two straps to hold the unit in the bag, and enough room to close the back even with the huge battery.  Also, the "walls" as you can see in the rear picture are firm, which allows it to act as kind of a stand...

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

Wow, that is a nice bag.  It looks like that bag has longer snorkles for the cables than what I have on my old mixer bag.

[dmonterisi]

that is nice.  nick, you ever giving the 722 back? 

[not logged in]

any recommendations on the best place to get the portabrace bag?

[nickgregory]

that is nice. nick, you ever giving the 722 back?

The thought has crossed my mind to skip town

as for where to get it, Frank at cascade carries them...

[scb]

i am an idiot.  got the opener tracks and will be uploading the straight 722 vs straight v3 tracks soon

[scb]

this isn't the first time i've noticed the v3 invert the waveforms.

both channels are inverted compared ot the 722 source. 

strange

[John R]

scott, i see the 1a.flac file, let me know when "b" is up.

btw, SS will credit 100% rental towards purchase

jr

[scb]

4 files should be up.  1a,b,2a,b plus a very short info file

[John R]

4 files should be up.  1a,b,2a,b plus a very short info file

yeah, they're up.

 'v3722comparison'

carbon leaf
2-24-05
irving plaza


2 sources are:

4022 > v3
4021 > 722

both are 24/96

listen to both and choose which you like better.  which track is which source will be revealed later

[scb]

sorry my info files suck

[justink]

4 files should be up.  1a,b,2a,b plus a very short info file

yeah, they're up.

 'v3722comparison'

carbon leaf
2-24-05
irving plaza


2 sources are:

4022 > v3
4021 > 722

both are 24/96

listen to both and choose which you like better.  which track is which source will be revealed later

can you point me where to go... i'm lost!   

[Brian Skalinder]

Alright, on first listen, as a relative 24-bit newbie, just over headphones - can't get this fired up on the full stereo tonight - and having no real reference for the 722 or Mytek, here's what I hear...

SOURCE A
Sharper attack in highs, smoother decay, better detail - noticable in percussion hits
Greater detail and more up front - guitar, keyboards, vocals
Bass more precise, not as round, extension...?...dunno, tough to say over headphones
More coherent soundstage

SOURCE B
Fuzzier attack in highs, spittier decay = fatiguing for me
Mids not as detailed or clear & crisp as A (guitar, keyboards, vocals) - mid-low emphasis maybe muddies up the mids a bit to my ears?
Stronger low end, rounder, extension...?...dunno, tough to say over headphones

Normally, one source will sound more "hyped" than the other to me, though in this case neither seemed terribly "hyped".  But A seems brighter and more detailed overall, or B somehow seems a little muffled / veiled relative to A.

If I had to guess, I'd say Source B = 722, and A = V3/Mytek.

FWIW, playback is:  PC > Waveterminal 2496 > smART D/IO > AKG K501s

[F.O.Bean]

god review ska, id love to know whats what.

[John R]

can you point me where to go... i'm lost!   

ftp site:  tapers.org
login: ftp4all
password: ftp4all

there may be some other stuff there you'll be interested in also

[nickgregory]

so I havent downloaded Scotts comparison tapes yet, but I have been listening to my tape from the other night, and a couple of quick thoughts...though I didnt run a comparison that night, I do have a good idea what my mics sound like behind the V3 in the Lincoln theatre for a show like BHTM, so that is my frame of reference for what it is worth. 

I ran MG200s>722 (thanks Tim for letting me borrow it!) for both BHTM and Carbonleaf the other night.  I have only really given the BHTM set a critical listen on both 24 bit and 16 bit.

The key difference that I hear from what I am used to with regards to the V3 in the chain is that the highs dont seem nearly as clear and defined as I am used to.  That being said, I dont think it is because they are not defined well, I just think that the low end is emphasized a bit more than I am used to as well, so that is attacking some of the clarity of the upper end.  I think the result is less "smoothness" on the highs than I am accustomed to. 

The low end, while not muddy, has a bit less definition to it than what the V3 provides.  The mids imo are pretty much on par with the V3. 

I listened to the entire 24 bit tape straight through last night....very pleasing to the ear, not tiring to listen to at all as I have found some combos to sound sometimes.  Bottom line though, I want to run a direct comparison at some point before I form a more solid opinion.

I will start both the 16 and 24 bit tapes up to the archive later today so folks can give them a listen.

[MattD]

4022 > v3
4021 > 722
both are 24/96

I did this second comparison last night, once again using foobar's ABX plugin to determine that I could clearly distinguish between the two. I encourage others to do this as well (I think winamp also has such a plugin) so that you can prove to yourself that you can distinguish one track from the other.

In that comp, I found that I liked source A better. A sounded more musical and "alive" than B, which was almost sterile in this comparison. I think that was because B sounded more neutral. The details were there in B throughout the audible range, while I noticed that A was not dead on with every attack. I wouldn't go as far as to call A sloppy by any means, just not as crisp and defined as B.

My call: A is 722, B is V3.

[Brian Skalinder]

I did this second comparison last night, once again using foobar's ABX plugin to determine that I could clearly distinguish between the two. I encourage others to do this as well (I think winamp also has such a plugin) so that you can prove to yourself that you can distinguish one track from the other.

Second comp = morecomparison or v3722comparison?

At any rate, yeah - ABX is a great way to comp these - or any - recordings, makes it easy to identify if you're really hearing what you think you're hearing.

[MattD]

I downloaded from the morecomparison folder. I didn't know there was another one. Scott, tell me I messed this one up! *sigh*

[scb]

if you had carbon leaf, it was the v3/722

if it was big head todd, it was the mytek/722

i thoughtthe files in the "morecomparison" were up in the comparison folder.  it's the same sources and same show, just 2 more tracks

[Brian Skalinder]

I need to give my ears a rest and come back to the straight V3/722 comp, but wanted to suggest to anyone doing that one:  add ~2.5dB gain to Source B, levels are a little low relative to A and this'll make for easier critical listening.

[Brian]

marc's in the stone age, matt. don't mind him

my ears were built at 16 bits and non-upgradeable.

Marc and I are part of a very exclusive school, that is getting more exclusive with each passing day!

moke..

acoustic music at 24/96?

how can you not convert?  amzing clarity and dynamics

[Brian Skalinder]

but wanted to suggest to anyone doing that [straight V3/722] one:  add ~2.5dB gain to Source B, levels are a little low relative to A and this'll make for easier critical listening.

Update:  track 2B only, track 1A/B seem pretty darn close.

[scb]

woops.  i can normalize and reupload if anyone cares

[dmonterisi]

woops.  i can normalize and reupload if anyone cares

but doesn't that defeat the purpose of the comp? 

[scb]

at 24/96,will 2db of normalization after the fact really matter?

[dmonterisi]

at 24/96,will 2db of normalization after the fact really matter?

that's a good point, i don't know.  and this isn't really scientific anyways.  you're probably right.

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

at 24/96,will 2db of normalization after the fact really matter?

maybe not, but I prefer comparison of raw tracks so that no other influence can be blamed for percieved differences.  If you do upload a normalized version, please label it as such and leave the raw files.  I already got them but others might want the raw files too.

[scb]

but if normalizing were to add 2db, then it'd be no different from what brian said...

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

but if normalizing were to add 2db, then it'd be no different from what brian said...

I thought brian was talking about adding gain in the analog stage of playback, that is after the DAC during playback.

[Brian]

but if normalizing were to add 2db, then it'd be no different from what brian said...

I thought brian was talking about adding gain in the analog stage of playback, that is after the DAC during playback.

....which would be the more proper way to do add gain for this comp situation.  DSP is DSP.  better to not crunch those raw digits fro a comp IMO

[Brian Skalinder]

Re the ~2.5 dB, only reason I mentioned it is because I could easily hear the volume difference right off the bat.  And yes, adding gain during playback is the proper way to do it to avoid DSP.  'Course adding the gain during playback isn't perfect either, but it's prolly better than introducing DSO.

Since Foobar2000/ABX doesn't have a volume control (WTF?), I initially did the DSP to add the gain, but now have also listened with two different apps and adjusted volume accordingly at time of playback.  I didn't really hear any difference between the two, but still prolly best to add the gain during playback.

And Scott - don't sweat it, it's damn hard to get levels precise on two different sets of gear, this I know!  Let people deal with it on their own.

[John R]

DSO? DSP?

[Tim]

DSO? DSP?

DSOTM?

[MattD]

Some pics up in this thread.
Damon, the 722 makes a pretty good target for a custom white balance when you're shooting. I shot those as small, fine jpgs with the 722 as my custom WB. No editing except for a resize/crop in paint.


Edit: I noticed that SD updated their 7-series page today.

[Brian Skalinder]

Alright, finished up my straight V3 v. 722 comp.  Here're my notes...

SOURCE A
Highs a bit sharper on attack, smoother & longer decay
Mids - don't hear much difference btn the two sources
Rounder, more accentuated mid-low & low end, extension...?...dunno, tough to say using headphones
Less defined soundstage, but seemingly more ambient detail in the crowd noise

SOURCE B
Highs not quite as smooth, a bit spittier and shorter then A, but not fatiguing
Mids - don't hear much difference btn the two sources
Tighter mid-low & low end, extension...?...dunno, tough to say using headphones
Tighter, smoother soundstage, but seemingly less ambient detail in the crowd noise

I had a tough time evaluating the mids on both as I often rely on electric guitar to really pinpoint how the mids sound and the samples didn't have much e guitar going on.  And, as noted, I didn't hear much difference in the mid range.

As for which source is which, I'm slightly puzzled since - based on previous 16-bit experience - I would have expected slightly better HF detail out of the V3, yet in this case, the slightly better HF detail appeared in the same source as the one with more accentuated mid-low / low end, a characteristic I've heard out of the 7xx boxes.  That rounder, more accentuated mid-low / low seems to permeate the recording for me and makes it very easy to distinguish the two recordings in an ABX environment. 

If I had to guess, I'd stick with my thoughts that the 7xx exhibits the rounder, more accentuated mid-low & low end, and I've consistenly found the V3 has a tighter soundstage than most other boxes, so:

A = 722
B = V3

Anyone else give the straight V3 / 722 comp a listen and formulate an opinion?  At any rate, fun stuff these comps.    I'd be pretty darn happy taking home either source!

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

If you are hearing similarity in the highs in these at 24/96, then I'm thinking that the previous comp was hosed by the resampling to 44.1.

I want to hear a V2->722 comp now to find out how much the differences are due to the preamp in the 722 and not the ADC.

[Brian Skalinder]

If you are hearing similarity in the highs in these at 24/96, then I'm thinking that the previous comp was hosed by the resampling to 44.1.

Not sure I'd say hosed, just impacted by.  I don't recall if the previous comp I listened to was recorded at 24/96 and then dithered/resampled in post, or if it was recorded natively at 16/44.  Hmmmm...maybe I'll see if I can dig up the old thread.  And...here it is.  Looks like the previous comp I heard was recorded natively at 16/44, i.e. not dithered/resampled in post.

I want to hear a V2->722 comp now to find out how much the differences are due to the preamp in the 722 and not the ADC.

Agreed!

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

Impacted is a more appropriate term for the effect on the sample.  But I think it hosed the validity of the test.  Plus, I just like using the word hosed. 

Read this message from that thread http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=25769.msg322641#msg322641 and he mentions conversion to 44.1k.  I think it was mentioned elsewhere, maybe in a PM, I can't recall where.

[Kevin Straker]

Can someone please go ahead and say which is which. I'll be listening to the samples shortly. thanks-Kevin

[Brian Skalinder]

Can someone please go ahead and say which is which. I'll be listening to the samples shortly. thanks-Kevin

The whole point of the comp is to listen to the samples without knowing which source is which.  I'm sure Scott will contact you about the source mapping once you provide some feedback.   

[Kevin Straker]

The whole point of the comp is to listen to the samples without knowing which source is which.  I'm sure Scott will contact you about the source mapping once you provide some feedback.   

Yeah, I know, but I'm still overly curious. I trust the assessment of the golden ears on this board and I'd like to know the results.  I dl'd jim pollock's garaj mahal show, but have not heard a direct comparison. To me it sounded a little grainy and veiled compared to my own mk4>V3 garaj stage tapes. Jimbo was running mk4>744t. Boswell is doing a comparison at the Robert Walter show in Asheville tonight. Should be interesting. Anyways , I'll give the samples a listen over lunch and report back.

[wbrisette]

Yeah, I know, but I'm still overly curious. I trust the assessment of the golden ears on this board and I'd like to know the results.

People are strange. I've NEVER heard back from a couple people that I shipped a comparison test off to. While I don't admit to having golden ears, I was amazed at how shy folks are about what they can and can't hear. Almost as if I was going to chastise them for picking the "wrong" one.

I also would say based on my the results of the comp. I sent out I'm not convinced people really can subtle differences... I think they tend to be influenced by outside factors more than the actual data. This is one of the reasons it is SO hard to do fair evaluations of audio and audio equipment. By the time you reach the higher end of the equipment spectrum the differences sometimes are so subtle that few if anybody can pick out the differences consistently in blind tests.

Now, what does this have to do with you? Don't be afraid to try it yourself first. Then pick out what you like and don't like about each one. Don't tell anybody then find out which is which. Just because you pick brand x over brand y doesn't mean you can't hear, or that your ears aren't as golden as the next person, it just means your ears are "tuned" differently and you like different stuff...

As Apple use to say... Think Different. ;-)

Wayne

[nic]

Just because you pick brand x over brand y doesn't mean you can't hear, or that your ears aren't as golden as the next person, it just means your ears are "tuned" differently and you like different stuff...

As Apple use to say... Think Different. ;-)

Wayne

exactly. I dont like the V3 because I feel the AD gives it almost a harsh/brittle sound, but most people swear by the V3...to each his/her own.

[dmonterisi]

I also would say based on my the results of the comp. I sent out I'm not convinced people really can subtle differences... I think they tend to be influenced by outside factors more than the actual data. This is one of the reasons it is SO hard to do fair evaluations of audio and audio equipment. By the time you reach the higher end of the equipment spectrum the differences sometimes are so subtle that few if anybody can pick out the differences consistently in blind tests.

well, just as long as we've got you around to tell us what subtle differences we're mssing, we're all set!!!

[marc0789]

Just because you pick brand x over brand y doesn't mean you can't hear, or that your ears aren't as golden as the next person, it just means your ears are "tuned" differently and you like different stuff...

As Apple use to say... Think Different. ;-)

Wayne

exactly. I dont like the V3 because I feel the AD gives it almost a harsh/brittle sound, but most people swear by the V3...to each his/her own.

ditto. the a/d fucks up a perfectly good v2.

[John Kelly]

Btw, any possibility that these Carbon Leaf tapes will hit the archive? 

[nickgregory]

Btw, any possibility that these Carbon Leaf tapes will hit the archive?

mine will get up there in the next day or so

[John Kelly]

Btw, any possibility that these Carbon Leaf tapes will hit the archive?

mine will get up there in the next day or so

Rock, thanks.

[MattD]

The meters on this box are a little annoying to get used to, as they're counterintuitive. I also don't like that there's more than one red. I'd love it if a firmware  upgrade were to reprogram the meters to give more resolution in the top two bits than in the -50 through -20 range.

[F.O.Bean]

The meters on this box are a little annoying to get used to, as they're counterintuitive. I also don't like that there's more than one red. I'd love it if a firmware upgrade were to reprogram the meters to give more resolution in the top two bits than in the -50 through -20 range.

i noticed that and think thats a tiny drawback too

[wboswell]

If anyone is interested, I've got torrent going from Friday night where I ran analog out of the V3 into the 722, from Gordon's "g-spot" location at the Stella in Asheville.  Its just about as ideal a location as you could ask for when you suspend the mics about 10' up, 15' back from the monitors.  I taped the opener using the V3 for both pre and a/d, but I've yet to give it a critical listen to compare the two sources, though I did listen at moderate levels early Saturday morning.  Initial impression was that the V3's a/d was more in your face, while the 722's a/d was more laid back, but more musical.  I should have time this evening to firm up my opinion...

http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=12136

[marc0789]

The meters on this box are a little annoying to get used to, as they're counterintuitive. I also don't like that there's more than one red. I'd love it if a firmware  upgrade were to reprogram the meters to give more resolution in the top two bits than in the -50 through -20 range.

metering by apogee.

[scb]

i don't have a big problem with the metering.  is it ad2k meters?  no.  nothing is

but it does have an led for -8,-4,-3 and 0.  and you can set the 0 one to also flash at whatever you want. 

and  at 24 bit, slamming levels isn't as important.  if you peak at around 4, just normalize later. 

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

I didn't have an issue with the metering either - but then I am used to running the V3 with all 6 of it's level indicators.

I do wish that there was a peak hold and reset.

[Tim]

I'm a minimalist when it comes to metering, I prefer the minime over the V3.... I want a light at -30 to let me know I have signal, another one at -12, one at -4, and over....

I think part of it is wearing glasses and my mediocre eyesight, the lights can get blurred and run together a bit...

[nic]

I'm a minimalist when it comes to metering, I prefer the minime over the V3.... I want a light at -30 to let me know I have signal, another one at -12, one at -4, and over....

I think part of it is wearing glasses and my mediocre eyesight, the lights can get blurred and run together a bit...

yeah, I prefer the MiniMe>dat metering to the V3, though, I do wish the MiniMe had 1 more level signal, maybe at -8, but thats what the dat is for...
the V3 has no lables, so casual glancing at them tells me nothing other than there is a signal flowing.

maybe it is a weak eyesight thing...(legally blind in right eye and both eyes continually 'leak' causing blurriness)

[John Kelly]

yeah, I prefer the MiniMe>dat metering to the V3, though, I do wish the MiniMe had 1 more level signal, maybe at -8, but thats what the dat is for...
the V3 has no lables, so casual glancing at them tells me nothing other than there is a signal flowing.

maybe it is a weak eyesight thing...(legally blind in right eye and both eyes continually 'leak' causing blurriness)

My V3 has labels at every LED... 

[Todd R]

Wow, hard to imagine folks prefering the MMe metering over the V3, but I've got good eyesight so more information works fine for me.  And yes, there is a db label for every LED on the V3.

I guess I can see how you would set your overall levels with the -30,-12,-4,over metering of the MMe, but it seems like it would be hard to match your levels (left versus right) with basically only the -4 LED to go by.

[wboswell]

I'm a minimalist when it comes to metering, I prefer the minime over the V3.... I want a light at -30 to let me know I have signal, another one at -12, one at -4, and over....

I think part of it is wearing glasses and my mediocre eyesight, the lights can get blurred and run together a bit...

something tells me its not just the glasses that cause the blurred vision, but I digress.  I was plenty comfortable with the meters after about 30 minutes of working with it.  I had the levels kissing the -3 LED with rare flash on the 0 LED.  I had a few overs when I opened it up in Wavelab, but way less than I ever had running 16 bit.

On another note, the calibration of the v3 and the 722 line level input is different.  I let some 16 bit patchers take the v3's digital out, but their levels were low compared to mine when I had the 722 set to line in.  I could have run the pad on the 722 to get them better levels, but I figured they could normalize if they wanted.  I was more concerned about the 722 getting the cleanest signal it could.

[nic]

And yes, there is a db label for every LED on the V3.

there is labels?
my eyesight must be worse than I thought...I never noticed the labels 

[John Kelly]

And yes, there is a db label for every LED on the V3.

there is labels?
my eyesight must be worse than I thought...I never noticed the labels 

0
3
6
9
12
15
21
27

MUCH better than the MiniMe IMO.

[F.O.Bean]

wow, IMO that is one of the v3's major plusses

i ran a dmic for ever, its basically the same metering the mme has and i HATED that about it

v3 levels rule your face!

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

The only thing I that really bothers me about the 722 meters is that they don't dim low enough.  Even at the lowest setting, they are too bright for "low profile" work.  I know there is a stealth mode, but I'd still like to see the meters.

FWIW, I really had no problem using the 722 metering.  It would be nice to shift the resolution toward the high end, but I found them easy enough to use after using the V3 - which has only six usable lights since the 0db is to be avoided and the -27 is always on in a crowd. 

I have to wonder what market was the target for the 722 meter scale.  Anyone here do folley or location work?  Is most of the sound in the lower range of the metering? 

[Tim]

boswell - suck it

[MattD]

What I'd really like out of stealth mode is to have the -3 dB lights on the left still light up, but nothing else, unless stealth mode is deactivated.

A longer lockout for the stop button is a must, IMO. I'd like to see something in the 3/4 second range.

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

What I'd really like out of stealth mode is to have the -3 dB lights on the left still light up, but nothing else, unless stealth mode is deactivated.

A longer lockout for the stop button is a must, IMO. I'd like to see something in the 3/4 second range.

Excellent points.

Send SD a note asking for these things.  Indicate why the current design is a problem.

[scb]

The only thing I that really bothers me about the 722 meters is that they don't dim low enough.  Even at the lowest setting, they are too bright for "low profile" work.  I know there is a stealth mode, but I'd still like to see the meters.

FWIW, I really had no problem using the 722 metering.  It would be nice to shift the resolution toward the high end, but I found them easy enough to use after using the V3 - which has only six usable lights since the 0db is to be avoided and the -27 is always on in a crowd. 

I have to wonder what market was the target for the 722 meter scale.  Anyone here do folley or location work?  Is most of the sound in the lower range of the metering? 

you can set the level meters to only show peak, not anything below it(v3 style).  i might see how i like that

[MattD]

Good suggestion, Scott. I'm used to the bar-style metering of the ULN-2, but peak is really the only info I need here.

[Kwonfidelity]

Anyone here do folley or location work?  Is most of the sound in the lower range of the metering? 

Not most, but the lower gain will show you that you are getting something - at the very least.  You're dealing mostly in voices from talents, several coming from variations of booms, lavs, and ambients.  Record yourself talking with the mic in your face, see the range the voice gets to?  Imagine capturing a whispering mother talking to a crying infant, than having to send a balanced mix straight to camera.  Unlike concert recording where the spl generally sits within a range of -12 to -2 to zero - in location sound you get everything from ambient silence to screaming voices, a rumblng train in the distance, to a gunshot or pitter patter of feet.   In short, you can wear out the whole range on a daily shoot.

We were able to use black lighting gels taped over the meters to get the "brightness" results we wanted in dark places.  Of course this is a bandaid, but you can still get to the buttons even with it wrapped around the whole area.

[Bri]

hey now... can someone PM me which is which?