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Offline Shadow_7

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Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« on: January 31, 2010, 06:57:07 PM »
I'm looking for a 2 channel microphone preamp that is battery powered and has phantom power.  I want something semi high end.  I have and use a Korg MR-1000 and I'm looking to suppliment / improve upon that unit.  So beachtek, Juiced link, church audio, and others might not be what I'm looking for.

I had targeted a sonosax SX-M2, but those seem to have been discontinued.  Are there any in the same league and battery powered.  Looking for a rig that's basically one person one trip, middle of a corn field type recording.  Not your typical setup I guess, but I just don't like being tied into the grid with unreliable power and other issues.  Not when they can be avoided.

Would two sound devices MP-1's do the trick.  I'd rather it be a single unit drawing from one power source.  So my stereo pair of mics stays matched.  But these seem to spec about right for what I'm looking for.  Except for that x2 thing.

Any others out there to consider?  I'd prefer with a full 48V phantom power.  Limiter optional, but a plus.  2 channels minimum.  Battery powered mandatory.  Pick up and leave on a moments notice.  Put in a box and shield from the elements and other things that you just can't do when tethered to a socket.  I've thought about the battery + inverter route, but that's really a bit much for my needs and I'm just not there yet.

Thanks.

Offline OOK

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2010, 08:02:29 PM »
Someone here stated before....recording is like nascar...how fast do you want to go?

Check out the following: all are great quality and can be run on battery power...

1.  The Niant littlebox.....great quality.......excellent price....somewhere around 300$ give or take.....depending
     on features
2.  The Aerco preamp...again great quality.......about 750$ new....but your gonna wait...build times seem
     slow...
3.  N-box....battery operated...only works with schoep mic caps.....1500$ new excluding caps..
4.  The soundevice Mixpre and MP2....about 650 new for a mix...sometimes can find one around 400 to 450 used...the MP2
     is out of production.
5.  The Grace design V3....1500$ new...about 900$ used.  you can find a V2 for around 700$....these are out of production..
6.  The sonosax is a great little pre..around 800$ used....they are out of production....
7.  Oade 148 or 248..custom mic pres..all out of production, but the pop up every once and a while in the yard
     sale..between 7004 to 1000$ depending on model and condition.


Anyone feel free to add to the list.....


8.  An Oade or Bussman mod UA5....how could I forget.....no longer in production...but can be had used for 200$ to 300$.
9.  Apogee minime or mini MP...excellent pres...the minime adds the AD to the pre.....either could be had for around 600 to 700$
     used.  both are no longer in production....  I can't beleive I forgot about these too...I owned a minime and loved it...I have
     regreted selling it ever since....
« Last Edit: January 31, 2010, 09:07:12 PM by OtheroneK »
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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2010, 08:09:56 PM »
I had great success with an Oade Warm Mod Plus Edirol UA-5.  Sometimes I wish I still had it...

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Offline fmaderjr

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2010, 08:59:04 PM »
I assume you don't care about an on board ADC, since you don't mention it. I absolutely love both the SD MixPre and the Naiant Littlebox (why consider 2 SD MP-1's when you can get a MixPre or MP-2). I hated the Apogee Mini-MP solely due to its form factor.

The Littlebox gets better battery life if you don't use an external supply on the MixPre, but the MixPre's limiter works great and provides a good deal more gain if you're recording a lot of quiet stuff.   
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Offline Shadow_7

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2010, 11:14:39 PM »
The V3 would be what I would probably lean towards.  I almost forgot about that one.  I was sort of set on the SX-M2, but that might not be an option anymore.  I don't need ADC, since the Korg MR-1000 is a field recorder, and a good one at DSD resolutions.

I'm sort of set on spending $500 per channel, not that I'm not opposed to saving a few bucks.  But that seems like a price point that would compliment the Korg well.  I'm mostly looking to extend battery life by taking the phantom power burden off the field recorder.  And overcome other issues known about the Korg.  Not that I'm in any rush.  It'll probably be another six months or so till I pull the trigger.  But I was toying around and found it a bit surprising that my Mobile Pre had a thicker sound and better low end than the Korg.  Same mics, same source.  A lot muddier, but EQ wise better IMO.  And the Korg's limiter is known to kick in a bit too late.  Or I could be wrong.

Any more options?  I'm looking at a minimum of 2 hours per set of batteries with 48V phantom power ON.  5 would rock.  Beyond that and I'm probably looking at a battery plus inverter rig, which makes most of this conversation moot.

Offline guysonic

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2010, 02:56:01 AM »
The V3 would be what I would probably lean towards. ------- -cut------

---cut--- I'm looking at a minimum of 2 hours per set of batteries with 48V phantom power ON.  5 would rock.  Beyond that and I'm probably looking at a battery plus inverter rig, which makes most of this conversation moot.

Supplied several pro-film recordists 15-25 hour battery sleds for V3.  This sled fits inside padded 35mm camera telephoto lens case if you like and weighing in at only 2.3 pounds.
http://www.sonicstudios.com/batsys98.htm#bd6v3

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Offline Shadow_7

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2010, 09:38:49 AM »
I'm still more of a hobbyist type.  Most things I record last about an hour.  The bigger weekends tend towards 2.5 hours.  At the extreme end maybe 3.5 hours per weekend.  Of course that's just the performance side.  Sometimes I like to capture a bit from the rehearsal, but that's generally indoors and a power tether is an option there most days.  Nothing commercial just yet.  For now, I'm just sticking with whatever native source the devices need and a second set of batteries.  Given my volunteerism and 501(c)3 genres.  Having been a performer in said groups, I just got a bit tired of mediocre efforts of other more commercial entities.  And a bit of lack of effort should conditions not be favorable.

Offline Todd R

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2010, 11:54:03 AM »
If you want to spend the money, a Lunatec V3 is a great preamp.  I owned one for 7 years and loved it.

I currently own an EAA PSP2, which is an excellent portable transformer-based preamp, and unfortunately out of production and very hard to find used.  I also own a Naiant littlebox preamp, and think it is fantastic.  You can get it customized in with a huge array of options, including internal li-ion batteries and transformer inputs and/or outputs (or user selectable transformer vs transformerless operation).  It's base price is only $210.

I would def suggest not writing it off just due to its low price.  I've done fairly controlled comparisons of it to the Lunatec V3 and the EAA PSP2 and it has fared very well, with more people overall preferring it in blind tests to either the V3 or PSP2. 

Check out the threads and comps here:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=124895.0
http://www.taperssection.com/index.php/topic,127721.0.html

[Note: on the V3 comp, the channels should be swapped on the littlebox source -- I goofed.]
Mics: Microtech Gefell m20/m21 (nbob/pfa actives), Line Audio CM3, Church CA-11 cards
Preamp:  none <sniff>
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Offline StuStu

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2010, 02:40:52 PM »
What kind of mics are you running? Some mics sound better with certain pre's and vice versa.
MK5, MK8, MK41, KM184D, CK77, B3 ---CMD 2U XT, KC5, KCY, AKI---KCY Tinybox, Ugly BB---AETA 4MinX, PMD661 MKII, R-26, M-10, MR-1

Offline Shadow_7

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2010, 05:08:48 PM »
Avenson STO-2's at the moment.

Maybe Beyer MC910 to Senn. MKH8020 upgrades eventually.  But I'm open on that front too.  From what I've heard the STO-2's are needy in terms of power draw, but I guess semi-forgiving if undervolt.  They're a tad noisy, but functional for what I currently do.

It looks like the V3 comes prepped for being powered by batteries, but doesn't actually come with a battery module?  Am I reading that right?  For ~$1,400?  Ouch!

I did try feeding the Korg with a DMP3 and the difference was nominal, in favor of the Korgs internal preamps.  So I am looking for better than that, plus runs on battery power.  Lower noise, flatter EQ, and other things I'm hoping to improve.

Offline Shadow_7

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2010, 05:50:48 PM »
The STO-2's are probably a little light on transient detail.  DSD helps a lot, but it can only do so much.  There's a mod for the Korg's preamp to improve low end.  At the moment I'm doing a 0.03db bump slope in terms of EQ.  Starting at 0.00dB and cresting at 0.42dB on the low end and that seems to help a lot.  But in terms of a brass ensemble sound the Tuba / Bass voice is still a bit absent.  The SM81's I used for a short bit had much better low end, but changed character a lot when subjected to higher SPL levels.  And were too problematic to weather proof (wind noise).  And too directional for a proper stereo image.  Just some things I've perceived.  Or I could be wrong. 

Offline StuStu

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2010, 07:23:18 PM »
It seems you might be looking to switch mics as is. I'm not personally familiar with the Avenson STO-2's. I recommend trying the very affordable Naiant "Little Box." If you later decide you'd like to try something else, you can't go wrong with either a Grace V2 or V3 no matter what mics you're running. I'm never disappointed when I run my V2.   
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Offline Shadow_7

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2010, 12:53:51 PM »
From what I've googled (quite a while ago) the STO-2's have something like 27dB noise floor rating.  Where the SM81's were closer to 15dB.  There's always that freeway type sound in the track, even when you're not that close to any lanes of traffic.  Still excellent mics, mainly in terms of what you hear is what you get, and being very forgiving in most applications.  As long as you have proximity + loud source.  The specs for the STO-2's are a bit lacking from the source, so I'm not sure how accurate that 27dB number is, but perceptibly it seems about right to me relative to the two aforementioned mics.  I do plan on upgrading eventually.  But that'll be an upgrade, I tried the lateral move thing and for every one issue resolved(better low end), three more were introduced(proximity effect, handling noise, wind noise).

Any comparisons for the V3 against other grounded / tethered options.  Preamp shoutouts and whatnot that I can get a feel for how it does relative to something I might be familiar with?  Or anything better and actually battery powered by design, not an aftermarket upgrade / after thought.  Perhaps I should just seek out a used SX-M2.  I'm looking for something clean and tranparent.  No coloration, just as honest sounding as a piece of tech can be.  I want that you are there sound.  Not that you're in some strange accoustic cage in proximity of there sound.

Offline DSatz

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2010, 05:43:57 PM »
Shadow_7, I checked the respective Web sites just now, and found the equivalent noise for the Avenson listed at 28 dBA and the Shure at 16 dBA. A-weighted specifications are of dubious meaning at such low SPLs because the "A" weighting curve was designed to match the ear's response at a considerably higher sound pressure level. Also, A-weighted noise measurements tend to be RMS (i.e. averaged over time) so that they don't include impulse ("shot") noise, which is much more audibly disturbing than smooth, continuous noise.

If you want to add about 10 or 12 dB to those "dBA" numbers, you might get a number that comes closer to what the microphone noise actually sounds like, although that is a rough guide, and the whole point is that any one numeric value for noise will nearly always fall short of a true characterization. And I have to say, while the concern about microphone noise can get exaggerated sometimes, given the amount of noise present in nearly all recording venues (as can the concern about preamp noise, given the combined microphone AND venue noise), 28 dBA for a modern condenser microphone just isn't a very good showing.

On the other hand the Avenson is an omni (equalized for free-field pickup, which can sound a bit on the dull side for indoor recordings that aren't very close to the sound source) while the Shure is a cardioid, so the two types of microphone would tend to be used rather differently anyway, even apart from their noise specifications. There's a certain amount of "apples vs. oranges" going on in this comparison, I think.

--best regards
« Last Edit: February 07, 2010, 10:01:37 AM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline Shadow_7

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2010, 12:18:55 AM »
Well, at the time I was adding video to the kit.  So I was expecting to be backing away from the source in the process.  So the SM81's were an attempt to compensate for that.  But they proved too problematic than beneficial for my applications(in the presence of an audience).  Most of my recordings are outdoors with semi-large brass ensembles.  Even at 50 yards out I'm still about 10 or 11am on the gain dial.  Where I'd be closer to 8:30am indoors in the bloody ear seats.  It was a while ago.

-----

Anyway it looks like craigslist and friends are being kind to me this month.  Where I was hoping to offload at least $300 of stuff to just get by, ultimately $1,100 to replinish reserves, I might very well offload $2,200 of stuff.  Not enough for a V3, but the 2x MP-1's option could be done without compromising safety margins.  IF everything goes through.  As I look out my central texas window and see 2" or more of snow on the ground (not in 8 years have I seen this).

So, worth it?  Or hold out for better.  I like the unclippable propaganda aspects of the MP-1, plus the limiter options, and it's a sexy unit (albeit single channel).  Should I get both at the same time, or one to try out, then the other to match.  For a stereo pair.  I guess I'm getting a bit ansy.  I tried my STO-2's on my cheapie Mobile Pre and actually liked it's tonality better than my MR-1000 for trombone.  I know the converters are tops on the MR-1000 (my CDs never sounded so good(or bad for the bad ones)).  But there still seems to be something not there in the preamp department on the MR-1000.  Or maybe I've just been using it so long that I need different for differents sake.

Offline fmaderjr

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2010, 08:02:25 PM »
the 2x MP-1's option could be done without compromising safety margins.  IF everything goes through.

Other than better battery life, I don't see why you'd want 2 MP-1's when you could get 1 MixPre or MP-2. And if battery life were an issue, I'd rather get a cable made for an external battery than run 2 mono preamps. There isn't much discussion here of the MP-1 (although I know its a good mono pre) so most of us must feel the same way.
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Offline Shadow_7

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2010, 08:51:24 PM »
Battery life is a strong consideration.  The mix pre runs 2 channels on 2x AAs.  The MP-1 runs one channel on 2x AAs.  The MP-2 has been discontinued, just like the SX-M2 that would have made most of this discussion moot.  Without a useable limiter and better battery life, I'm not really gaining any functionality by going with an external preamp.  And finding preamp shootouts is far more difficult than mic shootouts.

My main concern is whether or not the MP-1 is better than the Korgs own preamps.  I'd rather run a single two channel preamp as well, but there just doesn't seem to be any in that midrange price point anymore($500-$1000).  At least not with battery powered as a focus.  As I continue to seek out samples of all the options.  V3, little box, SX-M2, MP-2, MP-1(x2), .......


Offline Shadow_7

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2010, 10:23:42 PM »
Shure FP24 (also discontinued)

I'm still liking the MP-1's at this point.  Guaranteed channel separation.  Rugged design.  Cons, pulling from different power sources for each channel, which might leed to issues.  A V3 really would be overkill for me.  I don't need converters and meters and all that jazz since I'm already combining it with a field recorder that already has that stuff.  And once you throw in an external battery pack on that you've still got the same number of units as 2x MP-1's.

Offline fmaderjr

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2010, 05:44:40 AM »
The MP-2 has been discontinued, just like the SX-M2 that would have made most of this discussion moot. 

Not really-with some effort you could buy an MP-2 in the yard sale. That's why I mentioned it. However it seems like due to battery life, etc. it wouldn't fit your needs anyway.

The Naiant Littlebox is a great 2 channel pre that can be orderred with many options including some with great battery life. It is way cheaper than your range ($250-$400 or so depending ion the options) but everyone who has bought one loves them.

I'd recommend it if you don't need a ton of gain (the littlebox only goes up to 32 dB, I think and maybe 38 if you get the transformer option, but all the gain is veRy clean. It's quite small too.

« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 07:33:47 AM by fmaderjr »
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Offline Shadow_7

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2010, 07:14:48 AM »
Oh I hear ya.  I've been eyeing that one.  Not that "I" need 60dB of gain.  But I like keeping my options open.  And without it, it might be hard to resale without taking a > 50% hit on the deal.  In terms of return on investment a $400 littlebox resold for $200 isn't much different than say two MP-1's bought at $300 each and sold at $200 each(x2). 

I've also been keeping my eye out for a used MP-2 and SX-M2, but it seems that good gear doesn't hit the used market place that often.  So either the MP-1 is good kit, or they never managed to push more than one unit off the shelf.  I can understand with the SX-M2, since it's an import item.  Thine locals probably never even heard of it.  But at least it's been placed in a graph in comparison against other knowns by at least one person.  Maybe the MP-1 is just a new item, but that doesn't seem likely since the MP-2 existed and has already been discontinued.

Anyway an email already sent to a semi-local (in state) retailer of said gear.  With extra inquiries about possible in stock, but discontinued items.  Never hurts to ask.  I had to ask to get their pricing information anyway.

Offline fmaderjr

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2010, 07:51:22 AM »
Good luck with whatever you select. Normally I wouldn't think you'd take a big hit on reselling  a Littlebox. People like them so much I haven't noticed any in the yard sale. However a problem that comes to mind is that there are so many options to choose from that most people might rather order a new one and select their own options instead of saving a few bucks buying a used one. How much of a hit a seller would take, I guess, depends on the options they ordered and how desireable that option package is to potential buyers.

Mine provides phantom power, plug in power, and powers mini-XLR mics directly (with no need for an external converter to step down phantom power). It also has a 15 dB switchable input pad in case the 5 dB minimum gain proves to be too much for a very very loud source (I haven't needed that yet) and an internal rechargeable battery that will provide phantom power for at least 10 hours and will power mini-XLR mics almost forever. I really love it.
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Offline Shadow_7

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2010, 02:38:30 PM »
I hear ya, but no matter what options you get, anyone who see it by name is automatically going to think base price and not even look at the extras.  Tis the problem with things with that much customizable features.  Same with cars.  You could get a $10K car with $10K in extras($20K total), but you'll never be able to sell it for more than $10K (used, past that first year).  YMMV.

I'm also an instrumental musician looking to record instrumental music.  So I need that extra -10dB noise floor and ruler flat frequency response attributes.  Anything less is problematic.  Plus I'm looking to improve on the Korgs preamp, which are good to start with.  The naiant does appear to be good, but is it "better"?  That's the conclusion I'm trying to draw on very limited data.  Outside of buying, trying, selling there really is no way to "know".

Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2010, 05:30:49 PM »
Perhaps I should just seek out a used SX-M2.  I'm looking for something clean and tranparent.  No coloration, just as honest sounding as a piece of tech can be.

In my experience, that is not what you will get from the sonosax.  I found it lacking in detail, and somewhat colored, when compared to the aerco and v3 during extensive tests recording a 12 string electric guitar.  That was with mg200's and mk4's.

I was surprised at what I heard, but completely convinced.  But some people love it, so go figure - recording a PA from 'the section' is a different scenario, and one I try and avoid.

Offline Shadow_7

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2010, 06:19:40 PM »
At this point it's all conjecture, I don't have much hands on with a variety of gear.  I am somewhat happy with the gear I have, and I'm looking for that next level.  The gear I have is not cheap by most standards, but it's not mega bucks either.

I got nipped by that gearslutz thing already.  Make one snide remark and the owner/moderator takes your remark, makes it it's own thread with inflamatory subject line (of HIS creation in YOUR name).  And quickly down hill from there.  I actually searched on that site for MP-1 opinions.  No hits really, but it did hit on that thread from April 2009.  Interesting to see how it's evolved over the almost a year.  Ultimately it ended with me requesting to be banned from that site.  The moderator bumping many 5yo threads to bury it low a week after.  And from what I read of it almost a year later, what I recall as a 12+ page thread is now only 3 pages.  Said moderator questioning my integrity, my saying he who questions has none, yada yada yada all unceremoniously purged.  While the other parts of that thread remain intact.  Still a POS forum due to moderation IMO.  From what was an otherwise useful forum.  As I try to purge it from my most recently visited list once again.

My only reference for the Sonosax is it's popularity, and some chart that charted it close to transparent.  More so than many other options.  That plus specs made it desireable.  But my upgrade path has taken longer than expected so it's now discontinued before I ever had a chance to sample in person.

I'm not completely against a naiant box mind you.  But with so many options, it's hard to get a reference for what "I" want/need.  And outside of the base model, there's no definitive Korg MR-1000 version or bing cosby version or other these options work well for this purpose leaving me the sole task of spec-ing out everything that I might think that I want/need.  It really should be dumbed down IMO.  Which would help with resale potential.  At a minimum there should be a fully loaded (and fully spec'd) version in addition to the base model.  Because without delving deeper into that option I don't even know IF there is an option for me.  There probably is, but what is it, and what "comparison" do I have to make that determination.  And how long will it take to just place that order?

Offline Shadow_7

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2010, 05:41:18 AM »
Well my advice of picking up a Tekkeon still stands, from my point of view.

When you're in a situation of chaining two analog stages (such as any external pre and your MR-1000), it's critical to consider why the analog stage you have is not adequate.  If it's something simple like battery life, noise, or *gain-dependent* distortion, then an external box is an easy choice.  When it's something less ascertainable about sound quality, that gets tough.

I guess battery life is a bonus option.  I'm sort of looking for 3.5 hours (reliable) per set of batteries.  Across the entire rig.  Currently I only get 2.5 hours, really only 2 hours reliable on 2100mAh NiMH rechargeables(x8).  If charged within 24 hours of using.  I have 2400mAh NiMH rechargeables too, but I really haven't stress tested them to know their real world life in relation to the MR-1000.  Not really much different IMO, or maybe it is on the whole.  Difference x8 is like running on 9x 2100mAh batteries???

The real issue is not having a usable limiter.  Although I can live with that and have for roughly 2 years already.  And the MR-1000 is known to need attenuation on a number of mics to put the gain staging in the right ball park.  Would that be gain dependent distortion or level dependent distortion?  While the onboard preamps are good they're not without fault.  An external preamp has the ability to overcome, just by being an external preamp with this unit.  It would be nice to have a fast transient response preamp.  Recording in DSD doesn't make much sense if the input doesn't have that level of detail to record.  Although still reasons to do it anyway, dynamic range and other factors like 12.5 minute skip points during playback.

Maybe I just wasn't reading the options on the littlebox right.  But I'd like full sized XLR inputs, full 48V phantom power, and full sized 1/4" TRS outputs (and/or XLR).  From there I could determine what else to get.  But it didn't seem like that was an option (or normal option) for that unit.  And it'd help if those connectors had that locking feature. 

And it'd help if it was known to be better.  I did feed the Korg with a DMP3 at one time to see how it compared.  And the Korgs internal preamps were preferred to the DMP3.  Not really that much different, but enough to have a clear winner.  So I'm probably NOT looking for a battery powered DMP3.  I want something clearly better.  Since I'm not really adding new functionality per say.  It'd be a little stupid to do all this JUST to gain a few minutes of battery life.  At which point your tekkeon recommendation would be the better option.  Although I've been eyeing the batterygeek variant for a while now.

Offline fmaderjr

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2010, 06:36:00 AM »
Maybe I just wasn't reading the options on the littlebox right.  But I'd like full sized XLR inputs, full 48V phantom power, and full sized 1/4" TRS outputs (and/or XLR).  From there I could determine what else to get.  But it didn't seem like that was an option (or normal option) for that unit.  And it'd help if those connectors had that locking feature. 

I almost didn't buy one due to being confused by all the options, but I'm glad I did. You can definitely get all those features (and more). Just call, E-Mail, or PM Jon (mshilarious) to discuss what else you might want. He's extremely helpful.

I think with no additional options and either TRS or XLR outputs it would come in at the base price too (more if you want both TRS and XLR outputs). Talk to him about the feasibility of the input transformer option for your particular equipment if you want a bit more gain (it can be made switchable if you like).
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Or Sonic Studios DSM-6 > M10

Offline Shadow_7

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2010, 11:21:46 AM »
That's nice to know.  I'm liking most of what the MP-1 has by default.  But I'd like to try one before popping $600+ on two of them.  I might still get just one MP-1.  It could come in handy to feed a mobile PA system or something.  I might even get a littlebox, but -10dB noise and more gain for other mics is desired.  Not that I currently need that, but it is desired.

I'm more picky on preamps than mics.  Not to imply not picky on mics.  I was really surprised how different preamps make different mics sound so dramatically different.  At least on the low end < $300 a channel.  More sample downloading I guess until someone returns my email monday or later.

Offline DSatz

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #27 on: February 28, 2010, 02:46:07 PM »
Shadow_7, if you eliminate the preamps with audibly non-flat frequency response, audible levels of distortion within the dynamic range of interest, or that have incorrect or inadequate phantom powering and/or too low an input impedance, and if you make really careful comparisons using IDENTICAL input signals (something I'll get back to in a moment), the sonic differences among preamps tend to become so small that one can reasonably doubt whether they exist or not.

You could try to compare two preamps by placing two very well-matched microphones side by side and recording the same occurrence--music, speaking voice, gunshots, jangling keys, or whatever else you like--with each microphone using one of the preamps. Take the two output signals, route them into the same two-channel A/D converter, make a two-channel recording and then (using proper dither) normalize the two signals so that they have identical levels. Then you could compare the two recordings; for that matter you could subtract one channel from the other to hear and see and analyze the response differences.

But in large part you would very likely still be seeing/hearing/analyzing the response differences between the two microphones and/or the specific positions they were in (even if they were less than 2" apart), since those differences are often an order of magnitude greater than the differences between any two high-quality mike preamps. The better any two preamps are, the more likely they are to sound the same, if you define "better" the way I and a lot of other people do (although clearly, not everyone who calls himself an engineer sees it that way).

"Mike pre shootouts" where a singer sings or a guitarist plays in front of a larger group of microphones, each feeding one channel of one preamp, are certainly a total loss; if you hear differences, you cannot tell to what extent they really reflect on the preamp, the microphone, or the microphone's position within the group. Worse yet are the ones in which someone repeats the same music or speech--no human performer is consistent enough for that to work, not even Rachael Flatt (who I still think should be accompanied by Earl Scruggs).
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline Shadow_7

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #28 on: February 28, 2010, 06:01:52 PM »
But that's just it.  Not all preamps provide true 48V phantom power.  Not all preamps are ruler flat in terms of frequency response either.  And lots of them have different impedence, some even have variable impedence.  You can't take those factors away, they're a part of the preamp.  And that difference is VERY noticeable.  If you could rule out those factors then you might as well be saying that an SM58 and an SM7b are the SAME MIC.  Since they share a common component / function.

I know I'm probably hyper sensitive to this stuff.  Big picture wise it's probably of little consequence as long as the functional needs are met.  But I have this audible image of how things should sound and while my current gear is close, it's not quite there.  And the only way to get there from here is to start driving, even if it's in the wrong direction at first.

Offline DSatz

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2010, 09:58:35 PM »
Shadow_7, I think it would be great if preamps that are deficient in terms of frequency response, phantom powering, input impedance, etc. weren't bought by anyone. But my point is that then, pretty much all remaining preamps would sound alike. The same is definitely not true of microphones--so I don't think that it pays to be more interested in preamps than, say, in microphones. With preamps it's more or less like, "you have to be this tall to ride" whereas microphones and different ways of using them are like all the different rides that you get to go on.

--best regards
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline Shadow_7

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2010, 05:52:39 AM »
Shadow_7, I think it would be great if preamps that are deficient in terms of frequency response, phantom powering, input impedance, etc. weren't bought by anyone. But my point is that then, pretty much all remaining preamps would sound alike. The same is definitely not true of microphones--so I don't think that it pays to be more interested in preamps than, say, in microphones. With preamps it's more or less like, "you have to be this tall to ride" whereas microphones and different ways of using them are like all the different rides that you get to go on.

--best regards

Agreed, unfortunately the preamps that qualify are almost exclusively in that $1,000+, maybe even $2,000+ range.  I'm trying to stick to a budget, the high end of which is $3,000 for mics, $1,000 for preamps($500 per channel), $10,000 for pro video (to include all accessories and back end needed to use it).  i.e. I'm not wanting to spend more on recording gear than I spent on my car.  And those figures are long term goals.  And the goal is not to spend that cash, but to have the equivalent value in gear.  Right now I sit at about $1,000 in a field recorder, $500 in mics, soon to be $600 in external preamps.  And probably $500 in accessories (mic stands + boom arms, cables, T bars, various *pods for video, .....).  And $400 for a Sanyo FH1, but I'd hardly call that pro video.  Although still impressive for the cash.

Unfortunately battery powered preamp options are limited.  At least those that run on traditional batteries (AAs, 9Vs, D, C, ....).  In the sub $1K range 2x MP-1 don't appear to be too hideous.  And in terms of bulk in a mobile kit, they're almost cute.  According to specs alone I gain a couple hours of phantom power.  And I gain a usable limiter, not that I plan on running things at a level that activates the limiter, but it adds a certain piece of mind knowing that it's there and probably wont suck.  Since I plan on running video at the same time leaving the audio (outside of the initial level setting) on auto pilot. 

I'd probably be happier with a V3, but that's twice the price and I don't currently have that budget.  And there's a lot of extras (fluff) that I don't need in that unit.  A naiant littlebox would more than likely meet my current needs, but I like having headroom and options.  i.e. long term goals, some parameters of which may still be unknown.  For the moment it's geared towards middle of a corn field, any weather condition recording.  Targeting 3+ hours continuous sessions per set of batteries.  Right now I only get about 2 hours.

Ultimately I'll probably run a battery plus inverter and have some sort of rack / toolbox setup.  But I'm not there yet.  And if there's a more survivor man mobile option, I'm game.  Not that parades are all that interesting, but it'd be nice to have a full A/V kit that one could march in a parade.  Without tripping on cords, having to stop in the middle and swap batteries, and otherwise knocking mounted police off their horses while trying to manuever through crowds.  But still having PRO-ish quality gear.  I know, it's not a normal goal.  And I'm finding that I'm having to DIY a lot more than I ever expected to.  Windscreens thick enough for conditions in my region.  Monopod mounted to an over the shoulder camera rig to cut down on Z-axis yaw and to lighten the load while still being able to record from stadium bleachers.  I'm probably looking at a mic zeppelin with solid water diverting roof eventually and other if this happens, so what, measures.  Eventually....

Offline DSatz

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2010, 06:19:12 AM »
The Sound Devices preamps are first-rate; if for some reason I had to use a preamp of theirs instead of my V3, I would consider it a lateral move rather than a downward one. That's particularly true since my main mikes these days are Schoeps CMC 6--, and phantom powering for those is twice as efficient when 12-Volt phantom is used--very nice for battery operation.

Something to consider: A two-channel Sound Devices preamp with an outboard phantom power supply rather than two separate single-channel preamps would still be just two boxes, but it might give you more convenient operation.
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline Shadow_7

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2010, 10:47:26 AM »
Something to consider: A two-channel Sound Devices preamp with an outboard phantom power supply rather than two separate single-channel preamps would still be just two boxes, but it might give you more convenient operation.

I've tossed that back and forth a lot.  And trust me, IF the 2 channel unit used 4x AAs, instead of 2x, I'd be all over it.  As I wonder about battery life at full 48V, much less having true 48V phantom power on 2x for 2 channels versus 2x for one channel (x2).  The MP-1 just seems like the safer bet at this point.  And thinking forward a bit, sometimes selling two relatively cheap units is a bit easier than selling one high dollar unit.

Offline Kindguy

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #33 on: March 04, 2010, 03:31:38 AM »
No mention of a Apogee Mini Me? Nice preamp with top notch AD converter. For about 500 bucks.

IMO a way better choice than a V3. I assume your running digital in on the korg.

jeff

EDIT: Nevermind I see the korg has no digital in. Really surprised by that....





« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 03:35:22 AM by Kindguy »
TDS!

DPA 4023> aeta PSP-2> Apogee Mini Me > R-44

http://www.basicallyfrightened.com/

Offline fmaderjr

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #34 on: March 04, 2010, 05:19:28 AM »
You could also see about having a cable made for an MP-2 or MixPre to connect an external battery. I haven't read about anyone doing it here because it uses a 4 pin Hirose connector, but set up that way it should run longer than 2 MP-1's and be more convenient to use.
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Offline datbrad

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #35 on: March 04, 2010, 03:55:35 PM »
Something to consider: A two-channel Sound Devices preamp with an outboard phantom power supply rather than two separate single-channel preamps would still be just two boxes, but it might give you more convenient operation.

I've tossed that back and forth a lot.  And trust me, IF the 2 channel unit used 4x AAs, instead of 2x, I'd be all over it.  As I wonder about battery life at full 48V, much less having true 48V phantom power on 2x for 2 channels versus 2x for one channel (x2).  The MP-1 just seems like the safer bet at this point.  And thinking forward a bit, sometimes selling two relatively cheap units is a bit easier than selling one high dollar unit.

I have been running a pair of Sound Devices MP-1 preamps now for about 5 years, and simply love them. The battery life is 5+ hours with 48V phantom, and they are clean and clear sounding to my ears. One of the main selling points to me was the long internal AA battery life.

Here is a link to my post in the kickdown of my source of Furthur from Hampton, VA last month. Not really your application, but a good example to me of how good these preamps are. It's also posted on the LMA if you don't do torrents. Just make sure to download the flac files for a true sense of their quality.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=132187.0

Good luck!!!



AKG C460B w/CK61/CK63>Luminous Monarch XLRs>SD MP-1(x2)>Luminous Monarch XLRs>PMD661(Oade WMOD)

Beyer M201>Luminous Monarch XLRs>PMD561 (Oade CMOD)

Offline notlance

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #36 on: March 04, 2010, 05:10:07 PM »
You could also see about having a cable made for an MP-2 or MixPre to connect an external battery. I haven't read about anyone doing it here because it uses a 4 pin Hirose connector, but set up that way it should run longer than 2 MP-1's and be more convenient to use.

The MP-2 uses a locking co-axial power connector rather than the Hirose, but you make a good point.  A MixPre with an external power supply seems to fit your requirements.  Even if your primary power source is the internal batteries, having the external source allows you to swap out the internal batteries without interrupting recording.  Since the MixPre will run off of as little as 5V external, a simple 4 AA battery holder soldered to a Hirose connector will give you plenty of power and time to swap the internal batteries.

The biggest problem is soldering to the Hirose connector.  It has 4 tiny pins with little space between them.  You can't connect very large wires to them, but you don't need big wires.  It helps to have a new tip on your iron, and for my old eyes a magnifier.  Or you can pay some young whippersnapper to make you a cable.

Offline Shadow_7

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #37 on: March 04, 2010, 06:38:38 PM »
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=132187.0

Holy seeder batman!!!  I just got broadband (or as close to it as I can in the country) on wednesday this week (yesterday).  Some sort of microwave radio / wifi thing.  When I first started that torrent - 350Kbps.  Although it seems to have averaged out to 110+Kbps.  My old connection (dialup) was about 3.5Kbps on average for a comparison.  Most everything else on this new connection runs about 50Kbps - 100Kbps.  Anyway, glad for some sort of a reference.

If all goes well, I should be sporting two new MP-1 units by the end of next week.  And yes the battery run times are a big part of that consideration (5+ hours).  Hopefully having the 48V burden off of the Korg, will yield 3+ hours on that unit.  And solve a few of the other known issues with said unit(limiter + hot gain + low end + ???).  A pretty nice unit even with issues, but always nice to maximize potential.  I might regret selling my studio monitors now.  Just one of those things.  Drew too much power, never used them enough to justify their idle asset costs, and other sell them while they're still worth something concerns.  I've still got some magnepans, but they don't have the same low end abilities.

Offline Shadow_7

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #38 on: March 04, 2010, 10:31:30 PM »
Nice recordings.  Pretty much what I'm after, in terms of audience perspective ambience.  Slightly different genre, but similar in most respects.  Couldn't find 461's on AKG's website.  451's, yes.  MKH 8020's still looking good on my end (just not in the budget this year (or next)).  Avenson STO-2's the current beast of sorts.  Very similar to your source, but maybe a higher noise floor.  And not exactly stealthy, but not bulky either.  Sentimental value either way.  Made in Austin.  Spider Brace 2 also made in Austin.  The stuff I find out AFTER diving in for a swim.  Busman BSC1's looking interesting, but SPL limits perhaps a bit low for my needs.  Fine with distance and outdoors.  But indoors, same source... who knows.  Can't wait to try out the different preamps and see what is / is not different.  Anything like your clips and goodness is likely.

Offline datbrad

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2010, 10:06:29 AM »
Nice recordings.  Pretty much what I'm after, in terms of audience perspective ambience.  Slightly different genre, but similar in most respects.  Couldn't find 461's on AKG's website.  451's, yes.  MKH 8020's still looking good on my end (just not in the budget this year (or next)).  Avenson STO-2's the current beast of sorts.  Very similar to your source, but maybe a higher noise floor.  And not exactly stealthy, but not bulky either.  Sentimental value either way.  Made in Austin.  Spider Brace 2 also made in Austin.  The stuff I find out AFTER diving in for a swim.  Busman BSC1's looking interesting, but SPL limits perhaps a bit low for my needs.  Fine with distance and outdoors.  But indoors, same source... who knows.  Can't wait to try out the different preamps and see what is / is not different.  Anything like your clips and goodness is likely.

Watch the yardsale. You will see CK6x series caps offered, as well as both 460 and 480 amplifier bodies used with them for sale regularly.
AKG C460B w/CK61/CK63>Luminous Monarch XLRs>SD MP-1(x2)>Luminous Monarch XLRs>PMD661(Oade WMOD)

Beyer M201>Luminous Monarch XLRs>PMD561 (Oade CMOD)

Offline Shadow_7

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2010, 12:33:46 PM »
Amplifier body, well that might explain why I couldn't find it under mics.  I've been bouncing back and forth between those clips and some I've made (different genre) with my STO-2's.  Seems like a lateral move to me.  Which I've tried before, and didn't accomplish anything outside of tying up $400 for a few months and loosing $20 on the resale.  Despite all of the STO-2's faults, they are by far the most forgiving set of mics I've ever owned.  A bit of a power hog, but relatively immune to high SPL, handling noise, abuse, and near impossible to aim badly(OMNI).  Which is useful when you have them hidden in a big ball of DIY windscreen furs.

Battery life is important, only because I'm using a field recorder with built in preamps.  In terms of functionality, I'm not gaining anything.  And without the battery life thing, that's a real possibility, since I don't yet know if the MP-1 is better or not.  It should be, if only by having a better lmiter.  But I at a minimum gain a few minutes of life on a charge.  And hopefully a lot more.

Offline Shadow_7

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #41 on: March 10, 2010, 10:36:48 PM »
The order came in monday, I picked them up today.  I guess I got confused as the MP-1 .pdf reference seemed to use MM-1 on certain parts of certain pages.  So when MM-1 was what I got I didn't think much about it figuring it's the same product.  But it's not.  The MM-1 has a lot more things on it.  I guess I shouldn't complain since it has everything that the MP-1 has and more(at first glance).  But what does that do to battery life?  And other concerns about what else is different between units inside, and which is better?  If they are the same/better then I got a good deal.  If not then WTF, how hard is it to cut and paste a product name out of an email?  It does look like a gift horse of sorts, but do I shred the shrink wrap or play it safe?

Offline Shadow_7

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #42 on: March 11, 2010, 06:20:41 AM »
It looks like they're functionally identical.  Spec wise it appears on the surface that the MM-1 only gets 5/6ths of the battery life expectancy of the MP-1.  80% of 5 hours is still a good 4 hours, so within tollerances.  Targeting 3.5 hours.  I'll probably swap batteries around 2 hours anyway.  That was some of the toughest shrink wrap I've ever tried to cut through.

First impressions.  Wow!  Definitely a step up from the Korgs built in preamps.  That low end I've been trying to EQ to make happen.  Well, that might just be one less thing to do in post.  And noise floor...  What noise floor?  Just a simple pea shooter trombone sampling so far.  But so far so good.  I was running the gain a bit hotter than I typically run it, but it helps when you're dealing with knowns, versus unknowns.  Everything off switch wise except for 48V phantom.  Gain was toward 30%-ish, now closer to 20%.  9am on the Korg, now towards noon.  More sleep then some side by side A/B testing today. 

I'm liking the MM-1's though.  They add a fair amount of weight to the total package, but so far pretty sweet.  As I'm left wondering if the Korgs onboard preamps really suck that much?  The only comparison I've had is the korg and the dmp3 up until now.  The korg was better than the dmp3, but not by much.  The MM-1's seem at first glace to be another league, and a good one.

Offline Shadow_7

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #43 on: March 11, 2010, 01:29:17 PM »
Hmmm.  Using both devices as input into a delta 44 yields a tie of sorts.  Close enough anyway.  The MR1000 sounds a hair muddier, but it has a sort of mid-range boost that favors tenor trombone.  The MM1 has a hair more clarity IMO.  Maybe I should have held off on selling those studio monitors.  My 15yo magnepans just don't have the low end to ID that which I consider most lacking (low end on the MR-1000 itself). 

So far the most dramatic differece appears to be when using the MR-1000 device itself to do the recording.  Line input via TRS seems to trump the onboard preamps via XLR.  I'm going to have to do some more testing to narrow it down.  But as far as preamps to another recording device, the difference is almost neglible.  Both tracks recorded within 0.5dB of each other.  I amped to -1.0 dB from 0, converted to stereo and uploaded it to the Korg for playback at a CD quality wav format.  I can't even really tell a difference at that level on headphones (senn 280's).  Not that a delta 44 is tops, but it's decent IMO. 

One quirk I noticed when blasting to test limiter abilities is that the Korg must have some sort of limiter active (even when the limiter is off) or maybe it just doesn't have the dynamic range (preamps), but input levels while closely matched at normal volume, were dramatically different at peak volumes between the korg and mm1.  With the mm1 limiter engaged, I was able to redline it for the mm1, the mr1000 still had 1/3rd-ish left till peak.  I suppose I could have lowered the levels on the soundcard to avoid redlining it.  But it was odd that there was a difference there.  And that much of one.

Offline Shadow_7

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #44 on: March 11, 2010, 10:11:40 PM »
A/B-ing them on the Korg, a bit more noticeable.  Better low end, lower noise floor, much lower noise floor, but still not much different.  Perhaps the busman mod would have been much cheaper.  The noise floor (noisy mics anyway) is equivalent to the washing machine in the next room (on the korg).  On the MM-1's, it's more like the A/C might be running (or a freezer or something).  I'll have a more familiar source (recording wise) to compare against this weekend.  Although the venue is much different too (indoors).

One downside is that these effectively tripple the weight of the audio rig.  I never realized just how light the Korg is by itself.  Even with 8x AAs.  Fortunately it's all shoulder carry, versus on the stand.  I'm not getting any younger.

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #45 on: March 12, 2010, 12:33:16 PM »
In case anyone is interested, some samples of Korg versus MM1 preamps.  CD quality WAV files or better.  Very short clips (< 15 seconds each) of my bad trombone playing.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/ju6ikg

It looks like I gain a lower noise floor and maybe some battery life.  The rest of it is probably more perception than science.  The noise floor part is evident even on my laptops onboard soundcard through headphones.  The difference should be more substantial once I get less noisy mics.

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #46 on: March 13, 2010, 08:29:08 AM »
Limiter works.  The input is still a little hot before it does.  With the Korg gain knob about 10am, the limiter kicks in between 0db and +3dB, closer to 0dB on the Korg MR-1000.  Still usable for my sources in combination with the Korg MR-1000 to fine tune it.  It's just a little disheartening that the first click goes from 0dB to 18dB.  Only 10 clicks and progressively smaller jumps the closer you get to 66dB.  I guess that works, but most of my needs are between 0dB and 28dB for my current mics.  Giving me only 3 unique clicks to choose from.

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #47 on: March 15, 2010, 12:29:36 PM »
I tried the new preamps (MM-1) on a familiar source.  Finally a result I'm happy with.  Not quite the low end I could have (need better mics), but my low end bump has been effectively cut in half.  Which cuts the unruly peaks down a lot too.  Lower noise floor is awesome.  And some of the low end bump is due to the top heavy sound of the source. 

I recorded three 20-30 minute sets on Saturday.  With some between set listening, and the battery icon on the korg was still showing full status afterwards.  Nice.  One quirk on one of the preamps.  Even though the batteries were in and closed and in the right way, for some reason it didn't register as being powered.  Took the batteries out and put them back the same way and it registered the second time.  Fortunately I opted to record a section of the rehearsal to get a feel for the new levels, before the show.  Or I might not have caught that until it was show time.  It's not like there's a lot of wiggle room in there so I'm not sure why they didn't seat right the first time.

Anyway, nice little preamps.

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #48 on: April 11, 2010, 12:25:34 PM »
An update of sorts.  I recorded about four hours of content yesterday on one set of batteries.  A number of lectures at Texas Linuxfest.  I ran the MM-1 + MR-1000 combo on the first 7 lectures.  At the end of which, the MR-1000 battery icon had just jumped to show half power and the MM-1s LED still looked green (hard to tell since I'm red/green deficient).  Not wanting to risk it being too close to the 4 hour spec of the MM-1 with 48V phantom enabled, I reconfigured with fresh batteries in the MR-1000 and dropping the MM-1's off the rig since I was short 4x AAs to make it happen.  Less than an hour into recording on just the korg, the battery icon jumped to the same half icon.  So it looks like I might have been able to record the entire thing on one set of batteries with the MM-1's (but I didn't want to risk it with 45 minute afternoon lectures).  Where 2.5 hours on freshly charged NiMH AAs is pushing it for the MR-1000 by itself.  It could be that recording at 24/48 is less of a draw than 5.6 DSD.  But I'm quite happy as I was hoping to crest 3 hours, and it looks like I can crest 4 hours with room to spare.  Per set of batteries (2400mAh NiMH in the Korg, 2100mAh NiMH in the MM-1's).

I had intended to bring regular AAs, but forgot so I wasn't able to keep using the MM-1's.  Well I could have, but didn't want to risk it(virgin territory).  Plus I wanted to compare the two configurations side by side in a similar context.  Not much different, it does look like the dynamic range is a bit different.  I'm not sure in favor of which, but loud peaks on the Korg only are not quite as unruly as they are on the combo, but the limiter sucks so you have to play it safe.  I was kind of surpised the relatively high gain on the Avenson STO-2's didn't seem to worsen the relatively high noise floor associated with said mics.  I probably should have run the gain even hotter, I was hard limiting -12dB on applause, it would have been nice to see that closer to -5dB.  The low samplerate plus high amp (12dB) in post left a waveform with a DC offset that seemed to drift more than expected.  Than might have been seen had I recorded in DSD and converted.  Not of much consequence for the spoken word in a noisy hall with a target 32kbps MP3 output.  But still not very pretty to look at.

 

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