Topic: Examples of Shotgun Mics sounding good

[sunshinedavedream]

Properly placed shotguns can sound pretty darn good, especially in indoor barns. It's just like any setup, location location location. Run your Schoeps MK4s in a bad location, you get bad sound. Ditto with the Nak shotguns or any other mic pattern. Back in the 80s I ran both 3" and 5" diameter plastic discs placed directly behind the rear inlets of my Nak 300s. It completely got rid of hall echo and smoothed out some of the transients associated with shotgun patterns. Not sure if any of those recordings have made it to the archive.

[taper420]

I know you guys are always talkin down about shotguns, but I really like them, even with many comparison tests. Heck my pull for the Phish reunion in 2009 was the fan favorite for a lot of people until that crazy mastered AKG omni pull with the 80 foot spread. I just prefer the sound of them. It may not be colorless, but often times there is just a closer more present sound that my ears prefer. This could also be due to the fact that I don't normally use high-quality playback systems. There has to be something to be said for mic choice based on a target type of playback system. My pulls may sound worse on a high quality system, but better on a laptop, ipod, or car, and perhaps even better for encoding to a lossy format. I happen to think the choice of shotguns is especially suited to the encoding and typical playback systems involved in live streaming.

Most all my pulls for 10 years now have been the same sennheiser me-66 pair, you can check some out at http://archive.org/bookmarks/archive420
I experimented for a little while with a middle omni or card, but I've found the small benefit, if any, isn't worth the hassle of running 3 channels.
One particular comparison with omnis in the same location can be found right here:
http://archive.org/details/om2008-06-27.me66 (shotguns)
http://archive.org/details/om2008-06-27.STO11 (omnis)

[F.O.Bean]

Lots of Phish tapers in mid-late 90's ran guns. I have always preferred hypers tho

[taper420]

Funny you should say that... the ME-66's that I use are dubbed as "short guns" and do have a hyper-cardioid pickup pattern, as opposed to the ME-67 "long guns" which have a lobar pattern.

EDIT to add: actually just looked it up and the ME-66's are "super" cardioid, not hyper. However the higher frequency range approaches a lobar pattern, while the lower approaches more of a standard cardioid. 

[rocksuitcase]

Funny you should say that... the ME-66's that I use are dubbed as "short guns" and do have a hyper-cardioid pickup pattern, as opposed to the ME-67 "long guns" which have a lobar pattern.

EDIT to add: actually just looked it up and the ME-66's are "super" cardioid, not hyper. However the higher frequency range approaches a lobar pattern, while the lower approaches more of a standard cardioid.

Boeditaper who is from Central NY also runs with Sennheiser guns- I think the ME-66's; I have patched into him once and taped next to him several times. I also own/use AKG CK-8 guns at times and have made many good tapes with them. It seems to me the Senn's and AKg's are A BIT smoother in frequency responce than the Nak 300s.
I know a dude who taped many GD shows in the mid 1980s with Nak 100s and he felt at the time that the 100s were "better" than the 300s. HE also aimed at the insides, directly at the high freq speakers of each stack. He claimed if you just pointed them at the stage straight forward (0 degrees) or aimed at the stacks but did not position them as he did that the recording would be a bit "pumped up" in the Bass freq's.

[runonce]

Funny you should say that... the ME-66's that I use are dubbed as "short guns" and do have a hyper-cardioid pickup pattern, as opposed to the ME-67 "long guns" which have a lobar pattern.

EDIT to add: actually just looked it up and the ME-66's are "super" cardioid, not hyper. However the higher frequency range approaches a lobar pattern, while the lower approaches more of a standard cardioid.

Boeditaper who is from Central NY also runs with Sennheiser guns- I think the ME-66's; I have patched into him once and taped next to him several times. I also own/use AKG CK-8 guns at times and have made many good tapes with them. It seems to me the Senn's and AKg's are A BIT smoother in frequency responce than the Nak 300s.
I know a dude who taped many GD shows in the mid 1980s with Nak 100s and he felt at the time that the 100s were "better" than the 300s. HE also aimed at the insides, directly at the high freq speakers of each stack. He claimed if you just pointed them at the stage straight forward (0 degrees) or aimed at the stacks but did not position them as he did that the recording would be a bit "pumped up" in the Bass freq's.

I think we're really talking about the interference tube shotguns, ala Nak 300/CP4 - I think the AKGs are more a hyper/super card...and not an interference tube.

Not sure about the Senns - are they interference tube? -- I think the longer ones are.

[rocksuitcase]

Funny you should say that... the ME-66's that I use are dubbed as "short guns" and do have a hyper-cardioid pickup pattern, as opposed to the ME-67 "long guns" which have a lobar pattern.

EDIT to add: actually just looked it up and the ME-66's are "super" cardioid, not hyper. However the higher frequency range approaches a lobar pattern, while the lower approaches more of a standard cardioid.

Boeditaper who is from Central NY also runs with Sennheiser guns- I think the ME-66's; I have patched into him once and taped next to him several times. I also own/use AKG CK-8 guns at times and have made many good tapes with them. It seems to me the Senn's and AKg's are A BIT smoother in frequency responce than the Nak 300s.
I know a dude who taped many GD shows in the mid 1980s with Nak 100s and he felt at the time that the 100s were "better" than the 300s. HE also aimed at the insides, directly at the high freq speakers of each stack. He claimed if you just pointed them at the stage straight forward (0 degrees) or aimed at the stacks but did not position them as he did that the recording would be a bit "pumped up" in the Bass freq's.

I think we're really talking about the interference tube shotguns, ala Nak 300/CP4 - I think the AKGs are more a hyper/super card...and not an interference tube.

Not sure about the Senns - are they interference tube? -- I think the longer ones are.

Yes, I think the AKG CK8 is a super cardiod. I would bet the same thing about the Sennheisers. I believe taper420 is correct that the ME 66s are super cardiod. The longer capsules probably are interference tube. I think it is a function of the physics of microphonics. with the Nakamichi long tube design, the side vents allow for signals from the side or off axis to be picked up, then travel down the length of the tube with the direct signal picked up from the front getting mixed in as it travels toward the transducer. when the signals hit the transducer, certain frequencies cancel out and others combine. thus, the pumped up, "swirly" nature of some Nakamichi 300 recordings. Especially when you combine room interference when indoors, and wind when outdoors that may add to the "pumpy swirlyness" (I know, real word? not) often heard with Nak recordings.

Anyone can correct me/add to this understanding of how a long shotgun works? Gutbucket? 

[runonce]

Funny you should say that... the ME-66's that I use are dubbed as "short guns" and do have a hyper-cardioid pickup pattern, as opposed to the ME-67 "long guns" which have a lobar pattern.

EDIT to add: actually just looked it up and the ME-66's are "super" cardioid, not hyper. However the higher frequency range approaches a lobar pattern, while the lower approaches more of a standard cardioid.

Boeditaper who is from Central NY also runs with Sennheiser guns- I think the ME-66's; I have patched into him once and taped next to him several times. I also own/use AKG CK-8 guns at times and have made many good tapes with them. It seems to me the Senn's and AKg's are A BIT smoother in frequency responce than the Nak 300s.
I know a dude who taped many GD shows in the mid 1980s with Nak 100s and he felt at the time that the 100s were "better" than the 300s. HE also aimed at the insides, directly at the high freq speakers of each stack. He claimed if you just pointed them at the stage straight forward (0 degrees) or aimed at the stacks but did not position them as he did that the recording would be a bit "pumped up" in the Bass freq's.

I think we're really talking about the interference tube shotguns, ala Nak 300/CP4 - I think the AKGs are more a hyper/super card...and not an interference tube.

Not sure about the Senns - are they interference tube? -- I think the longer ones are.

Yes, I think the AKG CK8 is a super cardiod. I would bet the same thing about the Sennheisers. I believe taper420 is correct that the ME 66s are super cardiod. The longer capsules probably are interference tube. I think it is a function of the physics of microphonics. with the Nakamichi long tube design, the side vents allow for signals from the side or off axis to be picked up, then travel down the length of the tube with the direct signal picked up from the front getting mixed in as it travels toward the transducer. when the signals hit the transducer, certain frequencies cancel out and others combine. thus, the pumped up, "swirly" nature of some Nakamichi 300 recordings. Especially when you combine room interference when indoors, and wind when outdoors that may add to the "pumpy swirlyness" (I know, real word? not) often heard with Nak recordings.

Anyone can correct me/add to this understanding of how a long shotgun works? Gutbucket?

if you take one of these Nak guns apart - The tube has a narrow slit running top to bottom...so that must allow something to happen - not sure what...otherwise we wouldn't really need the vents at all...theres nothing behind them but the tube.
One thing I've always wondered - does it matter where you orient the slit? I would think you would want the slit to symmetrical with the other mic...?

[Brian Skalinder]

Was searching for something else and stumbled across this post from DSatz on (among other things) shotgun mics:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=121554.msg1622805#msg1622805

[kindms]

So this thread inspired me to get a ck8 recording up on the LMA

This is the Ryan Montbleau solo from The Egg in Albany, NY. If you ever have a chance to catch a show here it is a wonderful acoustic environment. So much so that the room made me feel off balance while we were there.

This recording was made from essentially the last row in the egg to the right of center.

Source: AKG460 (ck8 shotguns) >Tascam T-Mod HDP2(24/48) >CF

http://archive.org/details/montbleau2008-10-04.montbleau2008-10-04.ck8.flac24

I was pressed for time this morning so only the 24Bit went up. Ill try to get the 16 bit up there but have to go to physical media to copy it.

I am going to upload the Martin Sexton Show from the same night in a few.

Also this is also rocksuitcase's ck8's he is discussing above.

[bryonsos]

Fresh off the presses in the Kickdown:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=155405.0

[kindms]

Here is the corresponding Martin Sexton Egg show

http://archive.org/details/ms2008-10-04.ms2008-10-04.ck8.flac24

[spyder9]

Was searching for something else and stumbled across this post from DSatz on (among other things) shotgun mics:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=121554.msg1622805#msg1622805

That might've been the greatest post of his life.  I stayed right with him, straight through his entire thought pattern, .......without blinking. 

He inspired me.          

[spyder9]

AKG C568EB shotguns


http://archive.org/details/furthur2010-02-05.akg568.spyder9.106729.flac16

http://archive.org/details/dtb2004-11-26.spyder9.flac16

[eric.B]

AKG C568EB shotguns


http://archive.org/details/furthur2010-02-05.akg568.spyder9.106729.flac16

http://archive.org/details/dtb2004-11-26.spyder9.flac16

right with ya dan..  I am starting the transfers of my friends akg568 archive..   I will post as I progress through the DATS..