Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: daspyknows on September 17, 2023, 10:36:44 AM
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Previous Thread https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=198715.0
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I picked up one of these while it was on sale, even though I already had an F6. I figured it gave me a little flexibility in case I wanted to run a rig FOB and one on stage.
I've only taken it out twice. My experience is that you can't trust rechargeable AA batteries on it - they barely made it through a gig just taking a line signal from a board, I can't imagine how fast they'd drain running phantom to power mics. The 2nd time, I had it running off a USB powerbank and running two mics - it was fine, but cumbersome. I need to test out the lithium ion (non-rechargeable) batteries everyone has been using.
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these (https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Foldable-Connector-Portable-Charger/dp/B0C6XK6DDL/ref=asc_df_B0C6XK6DDL/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=672171217374&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9216029730096304741&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9022874&hvtargid=pla-2196124392185&th=1) have been posted on the Facebook taper groups
I'm not sure myself about having the battery directly plugged into the unit
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I have gotten 8 hours recording at 32/44.1 with phantom using eveready lithium AA batteries.
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just marking thread, carry on
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I picked up one of these while it was on sale, even though I already had an F6. I figured it gave me a little flexibility in case I wanted to run a rig FOB and one on stage.
I've only taken it out twice. My experience is that you can't trust rechargeable AA batteries on it - they barely made it through a gig just taking a line signal from a board, I can't imagine how fast they'd drain running phantom to power mics. The 2nd time, I had it running off a USB powerbank and running two mics - it was fine, but cumbersome. I need to test out the lithium ion (non-rechargeable) batteries everyone has been using.
they will go a lot longer due to the higher voltage. around 7 hrs with phantom
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Yes, I've been very happy with the Energizer Lithiums, about 6.5 hours @48K powering a CCM 4 pair. I tried Duracell Optimums and got 3.2 hours, pretty good for the price; lithiums are insane lately.
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Took my F3 out for its maiden voyage last night. I just used the Anker USB-C battery that powers my MixPre 3 and 6. The MixPre 3 with 48V on usually uses about 2/10 bars on the meter. The F3 with 48V on didn’t even use a single bar after keeping it on the entire 3+ hour show. Using a small external battery and cable seems like a good fit if you don’t mind having that in your bag or on your person.
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Just to add this info on the right places.
I used the Zoom F3 now several times with the Schoeps MK41 > Nbob Actives > Baby Nbox > Zoom F3 setup. The Zoom has 4 input settings (Line, Line 48+, Mic, Mic 48+). The Baby Nbox is there to power the Schoeps mic. Therefore you should NOT use the Phantom Power on the Zoom, so that leaves the MIC (minus 48+) or LINE in (minus 48+) as options. I have used the MIC IN (minus 48+) at some big PA concerts at DFC and it works perfect. Good levels, nothing different from a normal microphone (mic in 48+) > Zoom F3 recording. I have not used the Line In and can not comment on sonic differences.
This is gonna be crossposted on the Schoeps Team forum aswell.
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Smokin' deal $244.99 today at Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Zoom-F3-Professional-Recording-Converters/dp/B09SVN6J35/ref=sr_1_2_pp?crid=1MVNHXX598MGQ&keywords=zoom%2Bf3&qid=1696949793&sprefix=zoom%2Bf3%2Caps%2C78&sr=8-2&th=1
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Most all Zoom recorders are on sale today
M2 MicTrak $140 -- $50 off
https://www.amazon.com/Zoom-M2-Normalization-Monitoring-Podcasters/dp/B0BN4GKHJL/ref=sr_1_14?crid=OF98571E45UZ&keywords=zoom%2Bmic%2Btrak&qid=1696960691&sprefix=zoom%2Bmic%2Btrak%2Caps%2C166&sr=8-14&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.f5122f16-c3e8-4386-bf32-63e904010ad0&th=1
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these (https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Foldable-Connector-Portable-Charger/dp/B0C6XK6DDL/ref=asc_df_B0C6XK6DDL/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=672171217374&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9216029730096304741&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9022874&hvtargid=pla-2196124392185&th=1) have been posted on the Facebook taper groups
I'm not sure myself about having the battery directly plugged into the unit
I don't like the form of the combination. Moreover, the combination's mass could flex and stress the USB-C port of the recorder if the combination was not simply sitting flat on a shelf.
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Been ducking with this thing for hours, nice little brick!
But I’m not sure I understand the magnification settings. What’s a good setting? I was confused and thought it had to be set at 32 but I know that’s not right, the living room recording was pretty low when normalized. Can someone give a down and dirty?
Tanks!
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We’ve confirmed that the magnification settings is POST adc and does NOT affect your end result. Think of it as an after-the-fact level fader. I’ve recorded my living room speaker blasting very loud at x1024 (the highest magnification setting) and while everything APPEARED to be clipping very badly, once you’ve transferred the file to software and reduced the gain, the recording is completely normal. It seems like magic and is hard to accept, but it’s true!
I like around x8 for loud rock, but sometimes go higher so that raw playback is at a nice consumer level playback volume. No more normalizing!
The last 3-4 pages of the 1st Zoom F3 thread covers the topic thoroughly if you want to read more about it. Love my F3!
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Thank you!
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So I don’t see any way to adjust the mic inputs for particular mikes? If you input clip you’re out of luck?
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Sorry, not sure exactly what you mean by mic input adjustments , but the F3 cannot clip.
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I mean, is there a pad needed/available.
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To the best of my knowledge, no pad would be needed because the F3 cannot clip
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I have been reading eman's posts in the old Zoom F3 thread where he took a Dremel and removed the steel cage around the F3, which dropped half the weight and a bunch of size.
It looks like you can remove the entire steel cage by unscrewing the 4 watchmaker's screws in the bottom side of the unit.
If so, then instead of Dremel-ing the legs in order to leave the metal faceplate (which is needed), can someone 3dprint a plastic faceplate for all of us to use?
If I am correct, this would mean you could just use the 4 screws to make the unit pocket-sized without any permanent damage.
Or if someone can confirm this is correct (eman?), then maybe I will sendcutsend some faceplates for us to all use.
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To the best of my knowledge, no pad would be needed because the F3 cannot clip
You can overload the input (+4 dBu for mic-in).
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Thanks -- I did not realize that.
https://zoomcorp.com/en/us/field-recorders/field-recorders/f3/
Inputs
MIC/LINE (MONO) Connectors: 2 XLR (2: HOT)
Input gain: Adjustment unnecessary (dual AD converter circuits used)
Input impedance: MIC: 3 kΩ or more
LINE: 3 kΩ or more
Maximum input level: MIC: +4 dBu
LINE: +24 dBu
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To the best of my knowledge, no pad would be needed because the F3 cannot clip
You can overload the input (+4 dBu for mic-in).
and cannot be adjusted, correct?
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i just got one
so any tips on starting to integrate it into my taping flow
i'm getting a cable made from nick for baby box and mk41v
i'm interested in that 3d printed plastic replacement for metal cage
thanks everyone ahead of time
any infor for mod and any tips on starting to use
- it seems a lil bit of challenge to sneak into certain venues?
Taz
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To the best of my knowledge, no pad would be needed because the F3 cannot clip
You can overload the input (+4 dBu for mic-in).
and cannot be adjusted, correct?
Yea the only adjustment you can make is choosing between mic (+4dB max) and line (+24dB max). You can definitely overload the analog input stage. I stack taped a metal band last weekend with no issues.
What I've been doing: If I'm using an external preamp or sbd, line setting. If it's an active power box/ batt box/ or mics straight in, use mic setting. Try to get the magnification close. Hit record and enjoy the show. Do this a few times and see how the results are.
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Thanks for the information. But I can't help but wonder, if you stack taped a metal show with no issues, what would it take to overload the analog input in a real life situation? Or were you using Line In for the stack taping?
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Thanks for the information. But I can't help but wonder, if you stack taped a metal show with no issues, what would it take to overload the analog input in a real life situation? Or were you using Line In for the stack taping?
I used the mic setting for the metal stack recording. I've actually recorded 2 metal shows now with my F3 and no problems.
Barring real-life tests, I can't answer what it would take to overload the analog input.
I don't think any of our (musical) applications would do it, as I've TRIED to read through practically every thread on ALL the 32fp products (especially Zoom) and I haven't read about anyone experiencing this in a concert setting (doesn't mean it hasn't happened though) but I can safely say it's not a widespread problem.
The best piece of advice I read regarding 32fp is you have to see it to believe it. Record your living room speakers at a QUIET volume, magnification x1, transfer the file and boost the gain. Then record your speakers at the highest possible volume, x1024 (should LOOK like clipping), transfer the file and reduce the gain. Listen critically to both files after you've adjusted the gain to a listenable level.
For my dumb ass, once I did these tests (multiple times mind you), it made reading through the threads much easier as I had my own experience to compare it to.
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To hit that +4 dBu, you would need either sensitive mics or a very loud source or, most likely, a combination of the two. The mics people here typically use are in the 10 - 15 mV/Pa range; with those, it would take a really loud signal (~ 133 dBSPL) to overload the F3 mic input. Some mics, though, are more sensitive (such as my DPA 2006s at 40 mV/Pa) and it gets more plausible. Put those things on stage, near the snare or bass drum, and it could definitely overload.
I believe the F3 has P48 on the line input? If so, you could just use that and your chances of overloading the input are tiny.
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I believe the F3 has P48 on the line input? If so, you could just use that and your chances of overloading the input are tiny.
It's a (surprising) option. Pg 33 of manual:
"Line (+48V) Use when connecting equipment with line level input that requires
phantom power"
https://zoomcorp.com/media/documents/E_F3v2.pdf
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^ Thanks for checking! My guess is that, using that option (and if the multiple ADC set-up is well implemented), you will never have a problem unless you have REALLY sensitive mics or you're taping grenades going off at close range...
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To the best of my knowledge, no pad would be needed because the F3 cannot clip
You can overload the input (+4 dBu for mic-in).
and cannot be adjusted, correct?
In comparison to a traditional digital recorder, a multi-ADC design does not in itself increase the overload point of the recorder nor decrease its noise floor. Those thresholds are determined by the the analog input stage ahead of the ADC. What implementation of the dual ADC scheme does is increase the dynamic range of the ADC stage enough that it matches or slightly exceeds the dynamic range of the analog input stage, thereby avoiding the need to manually adjust input gain. It doesn't increase the dynamic range capability of the ADC by a massive amount and doesn't need to, it only needs to increase it enough to slightly exceed the limits of the analog input stage.
The open question I'm still seeking an answer for is why 32bit fp was also tacked onto that, because the dynamic range capability of 24 bits also exceeds the dynamic range of the recorder's analog input stage and could have been used in exactly the same way. I think its based in marketing. Manufacturers get to talk about +700 dB of dynamic range, being impossible to clip, all that. But those are the aspects of the file format itself and not the recorder feeding it. It totally ignores the real world constrictions of the necessary signal chain ahead of writing ones and zeros into the file format.
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It's a (surprising) option. Pg 33 of manual:
"Line (+48V) Use when connecting equipment with line level input that requires
phantom power"
Conversely, I was actually surprised Zoom did not setup the original F8 to work that way as its common among all other XLR input digital recorders I use and have used. The biggest issue I've had with the original F8 is that line-in is available only via 1/4" TRS (not XLR) and does not provide the option of phantom power. That was corrected on F8n and subsequent F-series recorders which allow use of either input at either sensitivity along and provide switchable phantom power in both mic and line input modes.
what would it take to overload the analog input in a real life situation?
Exceeding +4dBu mic-in or +24dBu line-in. As Aaron mentions, the potential for that happening will depend on sensitive microphones, the SPL at the microphone position, and/or an overly hot external preamp output.
I've run into such situations a few times with the F8 on stage in close proximity to the drums using sensitive microphones. If I were using the F8n or Pro model I could switch to line-in with phantom power and avoid that problem when necessary.
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FWIW I repeated battery test at 3:20 both times, MK4V, P48 on, LED on. I ran Powerex 2600s. NOT the *pro* version.
Also, that damn Anker battery does not safely connect to the F3, wiggles and disconnects easily.
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The open question I'm still seeking an answer for is why 32bit fp was also tacked onto that, because the dynamic range capability of 24 bits also exceeds the dynamic range of the recorder's analog input stage and could have been used in exactly the same way.
I may not be understanding why you keep asking this - isn't the goal for the end user so they don't need to stress over setting levels, and the recorder's dynamic range sits comfortably with-in the file format's dynamic range? Or is that your point, that they could just do that with low levels in 24-bit?
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Yes, that's it.
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so i have a question
i assum when you do 'line in"
the +! that you can raise
is just to magnify the wave form?
thanks for the answer ahead of time
Taz
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A little birdie told me that the F3 preamp chip isn’t even likely to come anywhere near 24 bits of resolution ( or even 16 bits). And listening to several recordings, I can hear that. 32 bit is great but the actual resolution is set by the preamp, and 32 bit float does not change that.
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In comparison to a traditional digital recorder, a multi-ADC design does not in itself increase the overload point of the recorder nor decrease its noise floor. Those thresholds are determined by the the analog input stage ahead of the ADC. What implementation of the dual ADC scheme does is increase the dynamic range of the ADC stage enough that it matches or slightly exceeds the dynamic range of the analog input stage, thereby avoiding the need to manually adjust input gain. It doesn't increase the dynamic range capability of the ADC by a massive amount and doesn't need to, it only needs to increase it enough to slightly exceed the limits of the analog input stage.
The open question I'm still seeking an answer for is why 32bit fp was also tacked onto that, because the dynamic range capability of 24 bits also exceeds the dynamic range of the recorder's analog input stage and could have been used in exactly the same way. I think its based in marketing. Manufacturers get to talk about +700 dB of dynamic range, being impossible to clip, all that. But those are the aspects of the file format itself and not the recorder feeding it. It totally ignores the real world constrictions of the necessary signal chain ahead of writing ones and zeros into the file format.
Yes its mostly marketing. neither the zoom F series or mixpre 32bit implementations increase dynamic range significantly.
In the case of the zoom, theyve just matched the ADC to an input level of +4dB. putting the 20 dB pad on the front also bumps the noise floor up by 20 dB vs mic in. In either case its in excess of 120dB of available dynamic range which is very good for all applications. But either stream could be recorded at 24-bit just as well, provided the user knew what input level setting corresponded with 0 dBFS at +4dB input.
I guess its easier for the manufacturers to 'keep up with the joneses' by taking advantage of cheap and increasingly common 32-bit ADCs, as opposed to spending a lot more money on actual analog circuit improvements that are harder to market.
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A little birdie told me that the F3 preamp chip isn’t even likely to come anywhere near 24 bits of resolution ( or even 16 bits). And listening to several recordings, I can hear that. 32 bit is great but the actual resolution is set by the preamp, and 32 bit float does not change that.
Well yes thats no secret, thats right in the specs
The stated -127dbU EIN of the F series recorders fits well within the 144dB 24-bit range
Good luck finding a field recording opportunity that even lets you find 100 dB of dynamic range
I usually record in 24 bit with any zoom i use.. and keep the levels peaking below 12dB. perfect every time. you could peak as low as +24 and come out to similar results
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maybe my question earlier was stated well...cuz i finally
figured out what the +1-16 option next to the line in
I saw a youtube video where a guy recorded at +16 and +1 and then showed
the signal no matter how quiet or how loud could be adjusted in post
so the questiion i have for all of you is
whats a good setting for a feed from a baby box - line in
i've been hearing put it at +2
anyone got idea?
Taz
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maybe my question earlier was stated well...cuz i finally
figured out what the +1-16 option next to the line in
I saw a youtube video where a guy recorded at +16 and +1 and then showed
the signal no matter how quiet or how loud could be adjusted in post
so the questiion i have for all of you is
whats a good setting for a feed from a baby box - line in
i've been hearing put it at +2
anyone got idea?
Taz
Since you can fix any setting like that in post, why not try a few different ways and decide what works best for you?
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maybe my question earlier was stated well...cuz i finally
figured out what the +1-16 option next to the line in
I saw a youtube video where a guy recorded at +16 and +1 and then showed
the signal no matter how quiet or how loud could be adjusted in post
so the questiion i have for all of you is
whats a good setting for a feed from a baby box - line in
i've been hearing put it at +2
anyone got idea?
Taz
It does not matter, so play around. You are not setting the recording level (gain), that is set by the recorder. You are just setting the post recording output volume, (fader). What you choose will not at all affect the sound quality even if the setting you choose is way too high or way too low. Your choice only affects what you do in post, and has nothing to do with the recorded sound level (gain). Your setting that would perhaps give you the least work in post (if that matters to you), would be best determined by the preamp and loudness of the show, just like any recording. The biggest difference is that if you choose a level too high or too low, it does not matter because it is not the recorded level (gain) it is the output level (fader)
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maybe my question earlier was stated well...cuz i finally
figured out what the +1-16 option next to the line in
I saw a youtube video where a guy recorded at +16 and +1 and then showed
the signal no matter how quiet or how loud could be adjusted in post
so the questiion i have for all of you is
whats a good setting for a feed from a baby box - line in
i've been hearing put it at +2
anyone got idea?
Taz
It does not matter, so play around. You are not setting the recording level (gain), that is set by the recorder. You are just setting the post recording output volume, (fader). What you choose will not at all affect the sound quality even if the setting you choose is way too high or way too low. Your choice only affects what you do in post, and has nothing to do with the recorded sound level (gain). Your setting that would perhaps give you the least work in post (if that matters to you), would be best determined by the preamp and loudness of the show, just like any recording. The biggest difference is that if you choose a level too high or too low, it does not matter because it is not the recorded level (gain) it is the output level (fader)
thank you totallly makes sense
u tottally explained it thank u
Taz
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Something I’ve been meaning to post: don’t forget that Zoom recorders (at least the f3 and f6) make channel 1 left and channel 2 right. Well when you’re directly facing the xlr inputs on the f3, channel 1 is on the RIGHT and channel 2 is in the LEFT.
I’m accustomed to some older recorders where I’m used to plugging the left mic into the left slot (when looking directly at the inputs) and the right mic into the right slot, if that makes sense. But you need to reverse that for the f3. I think the first show I recorded I got them mixed up, not a huge deal but certainly noteworthy.
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(https://i.imgur.com/bUbB07T.jpg)
1 is left and 2 is right.
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I tried to use my words carefully but I meant when directly facing the inputs. I consider this upside down because well, the actual number “1” (and the “2”) that they physically emboss on the recorder, are upside down from the angle in your pic.
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ok did some battery test runs
got the Nih battery nickels
rechargables Powerex
i been recording for over 5 hours - on line in - no phantom
and it still has three bars
i'mma use with preamp so i don't need phantom
but will do tests with phantom
and i also have some li ion rechargbles
Taz
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I was about to purchase an external power source for my Zoom F3 when I remembered that my newer Wurkkos TS25 flashlight has a power bank feature. Last night, I conducted a test with my Rycote HC-22 Shotgun Mic (48v phantom @ 96k/32bit-float), and I was able to record for 16 hours straight using just the flashlight. I used a premium Molicel 21700 P45B 4500mAh 45A Battery. While it's definitely pricier than some Anker options out there, you also get a great flashlight. Just thought I'd share...
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This all you need to power the F3 externally. Footprint is almost the same as the F3.
https://www.amazon.com/Anker-PowerCore-Ultra-Compact-High-Speed-Technology/dp/B0194WDVHI?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&smid=A294P4X9EWVXLJ&th=1
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This all you need to power the F3 externally. Footprint is almost the same as the F3.
https://www.amazon.com/Anker-PowerCore-Ultra-Compact-High-Speed-Technology/dp/B0194WDVHI?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&smid=A294P4X9EWVXLJ&th=1
This is exactly what I use with my F3. Works great.
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Just picked up one of these used, off Reverb for $225 shipped. Looking forward to joining the 32 Bit Revolution !
Thank you Fantasy Football Gods :D
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Reposting here for some thoughts:
So, I’m in the midst of changing my philosophy with taping a bit. Quick backstory - have been at this, off an on, for about 20 years now. Started very simple with cheapo set up - eventually settled into a CA rig. Over the years made my way up into multichannel, but in recent years have just not been into the hassle of the setup & more advanced post production.
For now, I’m basically running a share MV88 into an iPhone and calling it a day. I’m probably fine with that, but I do have a Zoom F3 and the ability to run that setup when needed (I basically only mess with mic stand taping when it’s crystal clear that the band is ok with it, and it’s not going to be a hassle getting it in).
I DO like the ease of taping 32 bit, so I’m wondering the best way to utilize the F3 in a kind of >:D / low profile way - like running a pair of DPAs, or something cheaper like CA / SP mini mics into it. Is my best bet some sort of XLR adapter?
Like, ultimately running 4061 > F3 would be ideal. Even if I needed a battery box, that would still be pretty straightforward. But it would be super easy to set up, and generally post work would be fairly straightforward.
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if you can find one a dpa mma:a dvice and any microdot microphones and an iphone make a dead simple and super low profile setup.
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if you can find one a dpa mma:a dvice and any microdot microphones and an iphone make a dead simple and super low profile setup.
Yup, I actually ran that rig for a few years. As good as it gets in terms of low profile…IMO.
That said, the dvice is a pricy piece of gear…and I’m looking for something 32Bit.
If that deity 32 bit recorder ever sees the light of day, I might give that a look.
I mean, I’m being pretty particular here…going to 32Bit isn’t THAT big of a deal…I’m just looking to see what sort of options are best with the F3 that I already have (and like).
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Im going to go out on a limb and say that the deity won’t reach the performance of the d:vice which has a well-designed mic preamp circuit and a very high dynamic range for its size.
Just a hunch tho.
Adding 32bit is a nice feature but imo pretty academic to 406x series mics that have (relatively) high self-noise. In most cases (esp >:D environment) you’re working with a signal that can easily fit into a 16 bit container, and very very easily into a 24 bit container.
d:vice with the gain turned all the way down will still pull a recording in a loud environment with decent levels above -24 dB so plenty of headroom there
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Folks have a preferred small protection bag they put this unit in ? Currently have a mesh bag found amongst my things, but looking for something with a little more cushion to keep it in within my larger bag.
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https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B1JJLHFN?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
I picked up this hard case made for the F3 on Amazon for $15. Not much bigger than the unit and has room for a power cable too.
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The 32 FP autoranging ADC stuff becomes a game-changer when you are recording things with somewhat unpredictable dynamic range and you can't do a proper sound check.
So while I agree with what breakonthru posted above, it's more on the upper end of levels that this format has been most useful for me where I don't have to think about gain levels, limiters, etc. If the dynamics of what you are recording are rather consistent/predictable, the benefits of this recording format are not nearly as great.
Case in point: I am recording a school district choral festival next week. I'll have my 788 back in house from its fresh once-over at the mothership. But I will record this concert with my F6, Even though I find the 788 to have a little better sound quality. This is because I will be supervising a large bunch of kids, conducting my own students, and having a compressed setup window with two separate mic arrays. The 788 would mean I'm taking a second peli case in with me and I need to travel a bit more light and compact. I won't have time to do a proper level check for the 788. Heck, I won't even be able to get at my gear once the concert begins.
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https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B1JJLHFN?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
I picked up this hard case made for the F3 on Amazon for $15. Not much bigger than the unit and has room for a power cable too.
Ordered, Ty!
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I bought the same hard cases for my two F3s--they seem pretty robust.
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First Recording w the new ZOOM F3 last night, and first of the new year. Came out pretty nice. Went with +4 gain on both channels, smaller acoustically nice listening room sat 25 people.
https://archive.org/details/BlueWaveRamblers.2024-01-12.AKGCK61.Flac24
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First Recording w the new ZOOM F3 last night, and first of the new year. Came out pretty nice. Went with +4 gain on both channels, smaller acoustically nice listening room sat 25 people.
https://archive.org/details/BlueWaveRamblers.2024-01-12.AKGCK61.Flac24
The gain doesn't actually matter. Its useful for monitoring channels or listening purposes as I understand it. That said, I typically have it set to +4 or +8 so I can use for playback driving home.
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The gain visible on the recorder during the recording process is only for your viewing entertainment. Just normalize the volume in post.
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The gain visible on the recorder during the recording process is only for your viewing entertainment. Just normalize the volume in post.
NO... actually the view of the waveform IS what it will look like when opened in an editor
you can entertain yourself all you want thereafter
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The gain visible on the recorder during the recording process is only for your viewing entertainment. Just normalize the volume in post.
NO... actually the view of the waveform IS what it will look like when opened in an editor
you can entertain yourself all you want thereafter
The point is it’s not gain. Nothing is lost. When you fix it in post it’s fixed.
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Like Grawk said. Adjusting the display of the waveform has nothing to do with adjusting the gain of the recorder.
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^
Going on 2 years of misunderstanding/disagreement.
F3 wins for easiest to use and hardest to understand recorder so far 😀.
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Like Grawk said. Adjusting the display of the waveform has nothing to do with adjusting the gain of the recorder.
it most certainly does effect the signal being recorded... but you have the ability to alter it in post to your liking
^
Going on 2 years of misunderstanding/disagreement.
F3 wins for easiest to use and hardest to understand recorder so far 😀.
it's actually NO different from any other 32Bit Float recorder* including the SD MixPre-ii
they all have the ability to set the APPEARANCE of the waveform but also be able to adjust to your liking in post
the F3 is small, easy to power and operate and has decent preamps... it gets used frequently
*NOTE:
when I ran a Tascam X8 for several months,
I noticed instances while recording where I saw my peak indicator go off on the display
when opening those files, I NEVER saw any peaks... ???
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Yes, people are getting confused again, but it's mostly Zoom's fault for writing false information in an important part of the F3 manual. I'm hoping this post can finally put the issue to bed, so stick with me here.
First we need to clarify our terms: Gain is the adjustment to the analog signal level pre-ADC. Record level adjusts the digital level being written to the file, after it's gone through ADC and anything else that might be in the signal chain. Some people are using these interchangeably and that's muddying the waters. With that out of the way...
Gain (analog preamp level) is not adjustable on the F3, nor is it on the other F-series recorders when they are set to 32FP format. (I'm not sure that the SD MixPre-II works the same way. They may still allow gain adjustment in this mode - I might ask over in that thread.)
All of the F-series still have the ability to adjust record level in this mode. It's not just an "appearance" thing; you are in fact changing the digital level being written to the file. The F6 and F8 manuals make this very clear, but the F3 manual is a hot mess when it comes to this point.
From the F3 manual:
NOTE
- The magnification rate can be set in 11 steps: ×1 , ×2, ×4, ×8, ×16, ×32, ×64, ×128, ×256, ×512 and ×1024.
- Be careful with the volume if you are monitoring the input sound with headphones, for example.
- Changing the magnification rate, even in the middle of recording, will not affect the recording level.
As several people have reported in this thread, the third point is false! The magnification level does adjust the recorded level. EDIT: Thanks to the test performed by @commongrounder, we now know that adjusting the magnification setting while recording is underway does not change the recorded level; only the monitored output level.
The second point actually reinforces the fact that you are changing the post-ADC level. Otherwise if it was only affecting a visual display, the level in your headphone output would not change without you specifically adjusting the headphone output level, and they wouldn't need to warn us about it.
We can confirm that "Waveform Magnification" is actually a "Record Level" control by looking at the block diagram at the end of the manual. We can probably assume that the engineering team was involved in this diagram and that they actually know how the unit works, unlike the people who wrote the above excerpt.
There's a symbol under Waveform Amplification (Wait, I thought it was supposed to be Magnification??) that looks like a diagonal arrow on top of a circle - this represents a variable output. Notice that it is directly in the signal path, and that symbol appears in other areas where we know for sure that signal levels are being adjusted (Line Out, Headphone Volume, Alert Tone). The Waveform Display is shown to be a tap off of the main signal path.
So what we find is that the description of how the F3 works is not how the block diagram says it works, and the two places use different terms for the same thing, and one of those terms is misleading. If it really did work the way the description said, then that variable output symbol would not be in the signal path but instead would be shown after a branch off at Waveform Display.
So, bottom line:
Gain is fixed.
Waveform Magnification is actually Amplification and is a digital level adjustment.
Manual is bad.
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^^extremely helpful
If I understand, the implication is "leave the levels alone when recording -- changing doesn't improve quality or signal-to-noise ratio, but it will screw up your recording (in post it would be difficult to exactly undo the changing-magnification-over-time caused by adjusting levels in the middle of a record)"
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"Gain is fixed.
Waveform Magnification is actually Amplification and is a digital level adjustment.
Manual is bad."
Well said. Thanks for this clarification.
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^^extremely helpful
If I understand, the implication is "leave the levels alone when recording -- changing doesn't improve quality or signal-to-noise ratio, but it will screw up your recording (in post it would be difficult to exactly undo the changing-magnification-over-time caused by adjusting levels in the middle of a record)"
I guess that's something to test - i have assumed that you can only change the levels before hitting record.
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^^extremely helpful
If I understand, the implication is "leave the levels alone when recording -- changing doesn't improve quality or signal-to-noise ratio, but it will screw up your recording (in post it would be difficult to exactly undo the changing-magnification-over-time caused by adjusting levels in the middle of a record)"
I guess that's something to test - i have assumed that you can only change the levels before hitting record.
I know for sure that changing Magnification before hitting record effects the record level. It may or may not lock the record level while recording is underway, which would make that line from the manual partially true at least. I don't own an F3 to test this; I just have used my friend's a few times.
Would someone please make a test recording of something with a constant level while you change Magnification?
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This morning I performed a test with my F3. Started with X64 magnification on a steady state sound through a stereo microphone. This gave a nice strong waveform on the display, and clear monitoring. I then started recording, and after a few moments raised the magnification on each channel to X512 magnification. This, of course, filled the the waveform display pretty solidly, and required that I reduce the monitoring level. A clear and easily heard level change. I then stopped the recording and played it back on the spot. The playback magnification/level *never* changed during the course of the recording and stayed at the original X64 setting. This tells me two things. One is the block diagram is oversimplified/inaccurate, and two, that single sentence #3: - Changing the magnification rate, even in the middle of recording, will not affect the recording level is very poorly worded. It should read: - Changing the magnification rate, once recording has started, will not affect the recording level. I totally understand the logic behind this. As SMsound wrote, it would be very difficult to track digital level changes in post with any precision, and the issue of only being able to change magnification on one channel at a time makes it impractical anyway. Best to do any level manipulation in post, exactly what 32-bit float is all about.
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I totally understand the logic behind this. As SMsound wrote, it would be very difficult to track digital level changes in post with any precision, and the issue of only being able to change magnification on one channel at a time makes it impractical anyway. Best to do any level manipulation in post, exactly what 32-bit float is all about.
Good test and totally agreed on all main conclusions. Except one small nit- It would actually be quite easy for Zoom to implement tracking of digital level changes with precision if doing so were helpful. They could simply insert a marker whenever record level is changed. Unlike an analog gain change, afterward the marked digital level change would be relatively simple to correct because it's immediate and of a discrete value.
But that's all academic. Its not how magnification level is implemented and would not be a good idea to do it that way anyway for the reasons noted.
/nit. Thanks for the test!
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^ Appreciate all the diligence and details shared by everyone above. Very good information to know going forward.
Here's a photo of my F3 Decepticon. The metal cage removed weighs approximately 150 grams. The 'slimmer' F3 with 2x AA batteries installed weighs approximately the same, ~150 grams.
There are also some links to additional photos below showing the inner workings of the device. While this post is not a recommendation per se, if you want to go this route, focus on the two images with the red arrows highlighting the inner bolt/screw. You will need to source a tiny bolt/nut (I chose 1.4mm bolt and nut) in order to secure the inner PCB, which houses the 4 buttons. This secures the ability to press the 4 buttons without the PCB board bending slightly, thereby limiting the left-most buttons to be depressed.
The mics in the photos are MG M20 > PFA and AKG C577/CK77.
Additional photos below. Note these aren't instructional as that has already been covered in previous posts. They're just meant to show what's possible. The device is fairly easy to take apart with patience and decent lighting.
https://imgur.com/a/3fcO6gB
https://imgur.com/a/vRWoeMF
(https://i.imgur.com/N0F9DAN.jpeg) (https://www.shareicon.net/data/128x128/2015/09/14/100864_decepticon_512x512.png)
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This morning I performed a test with my F3. Started with X64 magnification on a steady state sound through a stereo microphone. This gave a nice strong waveform on the display, and clear monitoring. I then started recording, and after a few moments raised the magnification on each channel to X512 magnification. This, of course, filled the the waveform display pretty solidly, and required that I reduce the monitoring level. A clear and easily heard level change. I then stopped the recording and played it back on the spot. The playback magnification/level *never* changed during the course of the recording and stayed at the original X64 setting. This tells me two things. One is the block diagram is oversimplified/inaccurate, and two, that single sentence #3: - Changing the magnification rate, even in the middle of recording, will not affect the recording level is very poorly worded. It should read: - Changing the magnification rate, once recording has started, will not affect the recording level. I totally understand the logic behind this. As SMsound wrote, it would be very difficult to track digital level changes in post with any precision, and the issue of only being able to change magnification on one channel at a time makes it impractical anyway. Best to do any level manipulation in post, exactly what 32-bit float is all about.
Thank you for doing this test. I edited my overly long post above with this info.
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I totally understand the logic behind this. As SMsound wrote, it would be very difficult to track digital level changes in post with any precision, and the issue of only being able to change magnification on one channel at a time makes it impractical anyway. Best to do any level manipulation in post, exactly what 32-bit float is all about.
Good test and totally agreed on all main conclusions. Except one small nit- It would actually be quite easy for Zoom to implement tracking of digital level changes with precision if doing so were helpful. They could simply insert a marker whenever record level is changed. Unlike an analog gain change, afterward the marked digital level change would be relatively simple to correct because it's immediate and of a discrete value.
But that's all academic. Its not how magnification level is implemented and would not be a good idea to do it that way anyway for the reasons noted.
/nit. Thanks for the test!
Interesting idea, but I wonder what software would read those flags in post. Or are you suggesting it's a process that could just be performed on the F3 itself?
What I would prefer instead is the option to specify which buttons are locked by the hold function: transport only, or transport plus level controls. I'm pretty sure both the F6 and F8 have this setting.
Of course, Zoom would first have to acknowledge that the F3 has buttons that adjust the record level and/or analog output levels, depending on the transport status.
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Here's a test I ran with my F3 recording my (loud) living room speakers at each magnification level. I copied all the files to my DAW and examined them, including the blatantly clipping files. When I brought the levels back down, the "clipping" disappeared and the files sounded completely normal. They also "looked" normal, and were not squashed down, the peaks etc were similar to the files recorded at the "appropriate" magnification levels. *shrugs
https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=198715.msg2400122#msg2400122
My conclusions based on those results could be wrong, feel free to correct anything. But I encourage anyone who owns an F3 to take a half hour to do this exact test in your own living room. When you actually see (and hear) for yourself that a horribly clipping audio file is somehow actually normal, I dunno, it changed how I view the magnification setting.
Ultimately I think Voltronic is right, this is Zoom's fault lol with their weird wording and manual.
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Thanks for the F3 Decepticon insights, Horus!
Interesting idea, but I wonder what software would read those flags in post. Or are you suggesting it's a process that could just be performed on the F3 itself?
What I would prefer instead is the option to specify which buttons are locked by the hold function: transport only, or transport plus level controls. I'm pretty sure both the F6 and F8 have this setting.
Either. Correction on the recorder itself would be best I suppose. I've not figured out how to transfer markers set on from F8 over to the DAW. If anyone knows how to do this for the F-series Zooms please let me know. As long as FLAC is set to "keep foreign metadata", any markers set using my Tascam recorders are retained in the WAV files. Was disappointed when the F8 did not appear to do the same, but never dug into it.
F8 does allow for very granular setting of what gets locked with the hold function, but I rarely use it because the recorder doesn't feature a dedicated hold switch. It's activated by a key-press combo and I don't want to take the chance of messing up a running recording trying to activate/deactivate it.
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^ Appreciate all the diligence and details shared by everyone above. Very good information to know going forward.
Here's a photo of my F3 Decepticon. The metal cage removed weighs approximately 150 grams. The 'slimmer' F3 with 2x AA batteries installed weighs approximately the same, ~150 grams.
There are also some links to additional photos below showing the inner workings of the device.
THANK YOU for posting and very cool. A 3D-printed or laser-cut top to replace the leather strips in your pic would be ideal -- someone here want to make a .dmg file?
Alternatively, I may mill the 4 'legs' off of mine and leave the metal top plate as-is in place, rather than removing the entire cage. Having disassembled one, what do you think about this plan?
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^ FYI, the "leather" strips are just razor cut pieces of gaffer tape to match the shape of the front. It helps to cover/conceal the exposed holes for bolts that screw into the outer metal cage. The four buttons on the face sort of lie between the metal cage and the plastic case, so the tape also holds them into place. You're right, though, that a replacement piece could be 3D printed to lay over the face. Perhaps a mold and cast could be made from silicone (or something similar) from the metal cage itself. I like the gaffer tape since it can be easily cut to size and replaced in minutes.
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Found this video for taking the bars off...no hacksaw required.
https://youtu.be/0W2nYJD56ow?si=Q4g80U87Ini_mU9V
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FYI...the F3 fits perfectly in a soft beer koozie, and allows the xlr's to run out of the top. Great if you want to protect the device and cover the lock switch while recording.
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So it doesn't matter if I set the "gain" which apparently isn't gain at all, to +2, +4, +8 or +64 before hitting record ?
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So it doesn't matter if I set the "gain" which apparently isn't gain at all, to +2, +4, +8 or +64 before hitting record ?
It doesn't affect the final output, assuming you normalize in post.
Think of it as you set the "listening volume" in advance.
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So it doesn't matter if I set the "gain" which apparently isn't gain at all, to +2, +4, +8 or +64 before hitting record ?
It doesn't affect the final output, assuming you normalize in post.
Think of it as you set the "listening volume" in advance.
This ^. I think the idea is you use the waveform display to adjust the magnification to show an active full amplitude waveform before recording. Then the headphone amplifier and its level will have the optimum dynamic range and headroom for monitoring, and the resulting file will be closer to peaking at 0dbfs. Normalizing or other dynamics processing in post will fine tune the level to conform to a fixed point bit depth file. Of course the beauty of this is you don’t need to be exact. I mean you *can* set the magnification to some extreme value and it’ll still be recoverable (assuming you don’t clip the preamp input), but why do that, especially if you wish to headphone monitor or feed audio to a camera.
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I bought the same hard case. Perfect fit.
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As for external power, I bought one of these recently. 5,200mah Tested it last night, running P48, w/ Line Audio CM4's. Got to 6 hours runtime, with one light on, when I turned it off. Great lil' battery for people that like a low profile setup.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09NRG2YT3?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1
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What are people transferring their files into? Soundforge, audacity?
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What are people transferring their files into? Soundforge, audacity?
Basically everything supports 32 bit float these days, so whatever you like.
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Ran mine last night with the MK21s and NBox Platinum for Daniel Donato's Cosmic Country set. Nice rig without metal detectors.
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Haven't read too much about 32bit float or this recorder before today. Reading about this recorder, I get all teary-eyed thinking back to all of the >:D shows that I messed up when I first started taping back in the early to mid-90s, shows like the Robillard/Bangham years of the TBirds lineup, Luther Allison, Johnny Clyde Copeland (both of whom died in 1997), the Danny Morris years of the Nighthawks, Johnny Winter, and on and on.
Sooo many of those guys are dead now....what I wouldn't have given to have today's gear back then so that those recordings would have turned out. :bawling:
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Ran mine last night with the MK21s and NBox Platinum for Daniel Donato's Cosmic Country set. Nice rig without metal detectors.
what batteries you using - i know you dont like rechargables
fyi for getting in the door i been using your key fob in dish mehtod - i just tell them f3 is my car stereo and they just go ok
Taz
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so was thinking of the f3 for low profile. I saw some old posts about removing the steel cage. is that an option?
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^ Yes, it can be removed fully intact. It sheds half of the total weight. See my post at the top of the previous page.
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^ Yes, it can be removed fully intact. It sheds half of the total weight. See my post at the top of the previous page.
thanks found it. so you need to take the f3 itself apart in order to unscrew the front of the cage, and then run bolts through the front faceplate, from the inside, to hold it all together properly? if im understanding correctly
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Ran mine last night with the MK21s and NBox Platinum for Daniel Donato's Cosmic Country set. Nice rig without metal detectors.
what batteries you using - i know you dont like rechargables
fyi for getting in the door i been using your key fob in dish mehtod - i just tell them f3 is my car stereo and they just go ok
Taz
I use engergizer lithiums. last all day.
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^ Yes, it can be removed fully intact. It sheds half of the total weight. See my post at the top of the previous page.
thanks found it. so you need to take the f3 itself apart in order to unscrew the front of the cage, and then run bolts through the front faceplate, from the inside, to hold it all together properly? if im understanding correctly
If you want to take it to that extent, then yes. It required me to fully disassemble, because the cage is bolted to the inner molded face. That's why I had to add that tiny nut to the face to hold the through-bolt that keeps the 4 buttons/PCB in place - it would normally screw into the metal face.
Another TSer kicked off this effort in a different route (see older posts) that appears to retain a portion of the metal cage still affixed to those bolts.
Please also note that I approached mine in a "quick and dirty" fashion, fully aware of any potential warranty loss. This thing has dozens of tiny bolts holding the innards together, but really only a fraction were required to reassemble to my liking/needs. It's kind of amazing and hard to believe how tiny and light this is. XLRs aside, it could almost fit in a 5th pocket. At least in some old JNCOs. :P
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Bit of a stab in the dark here......
Does anyone know the upper frequency limit of the F3 'line out' jack when the device is used at 192KHz sampling? ..... It's not in the manual, and Zoom haven't been able to help so far.
I'm interested in using a Zoom F3 to record ultrasound at around 50KHz......
Zoom have confirmed to me the actual unit frequency response is +0.5dB/ -1dB @ 60KHz, but are unable to advise whether that upper limit applies to the line out socket as well...
I can understand the headphone output being upper frequency limited, but hopefully not the line out socket.
I currently use the line out from my Tacam DR100Mk3 to monitor ultrasound recordings in real tme - via a custom heterodyne monitor device - and that works fine.
I'm hoping the F3 will allow me to do the same.
But that depends on the upper frequency limit of the line out jack........
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Bit of a stab in the dark here......
Does anyone know the upper frequency limit of the F3 'line out' jack when the device is used at 192KHz sampling? ..... It's not in the manual, and Zoom haven't been able to help so far.
I'm interested in using a Zoom F3 to record ultrasound at around 50KHz......
Zoom have confirmed to me the actual unit frequency response is +0.5dB/ -1dB @ 60KHz, but are unable to advise whether that upper limit applies to the line out socket as well...
I can understand the headphone output being upper frequency limited, but hopefully not the line out socket.
I currently use the line out from my Tacam DR100Mk3 to monitor ultrasound recordings in real tme - via a custom heterodyne monitor device - and that works fine.
I'm hoping the F3 will allow me to do the same.
But that depends on the upper frequency limit of the line out jack........
You could test this yourself by using any number of online test tone generators to make an ultrasonic tone sweep. Put that file on your F3 memory card, play the file, and monitor the output.
EDIT: You can just download the 192 kHz sweep from here:
https://www.audiocheck.net/testtones_highdefinitionaudio.php
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You could test this yourself by using any number of online test tone generators to make an ultrasonic tone sweep. Put that file on your F3 memory card, play the file, and monitor the output.....
Thanks for your reply. Sadly I don't have an F3 to check that.
I'm only going to buy one if the 'live' line out response extends to at least 60KHz during recording ( which is what I understand is the upper frequency limit of the F3 @ 192 KHz sampling ).
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You could test this yourself by using any number of online test tone generators to make an ultrasonic tone sweep. Put that file on your F3 memory card, play the file, and monitor the output.....
Thanks for your reply. Sadly I don't have an F3 to check that.
I'm only going to buy one if the 'live' line out response extends to at least 60KHz during recording ( which is what I understand is the upper frequency limit of the F3 @ 192 KHz sampling ).
I suppose you could see if there's somebody else at Zoom tech support who could find out the answer for you. I suspect that they have not tested the line out on this unit very rigorously. On a recorder this inexpensive, they are putting all of their money into the mic preamps and ADC, and the analog output stage is likely comprised of cheaper components.
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You could test this yourself by using any number of online test tone generators to make an ultrasonic tone sweep. Put that file on your F3 memory card, play the file, and monitor the output.....
Thanks for your reply. Sadly I don't have an F3 to check that.
I'm only going to buy one if the 'live' line out response extends to at least 60KHz during recording ( which is what I understand is the upper frequency limit of the F3 @ 192 KHz sampling ).
Looks like neither F3 line out or headphone output are bandwidth limited. First sweep is line out and second sweep headphone out to F6 (the line out clipped the F6 inputs but still shows that the swap file played all the way through).
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I suppose you could see if there's somebody else at Zoom tech support who could find out the answer for you. I suspect that they have not tested the line out on this unit very rigorously. On a recorder this inexpensive, they are putting all of their money into the mic preamps and ADC, and the analog output stage is likely comprised of cheaper components.
I do have a second request in with Zoom Support, but they don't currently have the answer ... thanks for you reply.
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Looks like neither F3 line out or headphone output are bandwidth limited. First sweep is line out and second sweep headphone out to F6 (the line out clipped the F6 inputs but still shows that the swap file played all the way through).
Thanks for posting those.
Looks like the headphone out is a lot more linear than the line out! ... Not sure what those 2 'dips' are near the top of the line out display ?
Headphone out looks a lot better ....seems to roll off pretty steeply at around 60KHz , but is pretty linear below that. (Line out seems to vary quite lot in amplitude?)......
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Looks like neither F3 line out or headphone output are bandwidth limited. First sweep is line out and second sweep headphone out to F6 (the line out clipped the F6 inputs but still shows that the swap file played all the way through).
Thanks for posting those.
Looks like the headphone out is a lot more linear than the line out! ... Not sure what those 2 'dips' are near the top of the line out display ?
Headphone out looks a lot better ....seems to roll off pretty steeply at around 60KHz , but is pretty linear below that. (Line out seems to vary quite lot in amplitude?)......
You might need something decidedly more high-end than an F3. Sound Devices tends to make pretty robust analog line outs on their units. You're going to spend quite a lot more, however.
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You might need something decidedly more high-end than an F3. Sound Devices tends to make pretty robust analog line outs on their units. You're going to spend quite a lot more, however.
Strangely, for my application, probably not?......... I currently use my Tascam DR100MK3 to record bat ultrasound, and the line out is used as an input to a custom made heterodyne detector, which allows for the ultrasound to be 'heard' in real time.
It is also useful to record the audio range tones produced by the heterodyne mixer - alongside the actual ultrasound recording - to allow for accurate monitoring.
But the heterodyne signal recording does not have to be especially accurate.
Looks as if the F3 might do the job OK....
A Sound Devices Mixpre3 II would be great of course... but I can't justify the cost - at least not at the present time! .... :)
Thanks again for your input and suggestions
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The theoretical limit for a sampling rate of 192 is 96kHz, less the width of the stop-band filtering as actualized, and the headphone out looks nice and clean all the way up to over 90kHz with no aliasing.
Was the test sweep played as a digital file transferred to the recorder or through an analog input? Not fully sure how to interpret the aliasing mostly present in only the first half of the line-out plot. Given the mention of the overloaded input, my initial assumption was that overload distortion produced harmonics exceeding nyquist, insufficiently attenuated by the stop-band filtering. A test of the DAC is not a test of the ADC. If any content of your source actually reaches ~90Khz or higher it would be best to test the analog input with a sweep through the analog inputs to check if the ADC stop-band filtering prevents aliasing.
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took the f3 for its first 2 spins this weekend. captured the first 2 nights of dylan tour DPA 4021 > F3 (32/96). this is such a great stealth box! Tape over the hold switch and forget about it!
will post in kick down in a day or two but the dpas & f3 came home with smoking tapes!
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in audacity what function am I using to lower levels? I upped the magnification thec2nd night and got some "clipping"?
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in audacity what function am I using to lower levels? I upped the magnification thec2nd night and got some "clipping"?
Effect>Volume and Compression>Normalize *Not Loudness Normalization
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Looks like neither F3 line out or headphone output are bandwidth limited. First sweep is line out and second sweep headphone out to F6 (the line out clipped the F6 inputs but still shows that the swap file played all the way through).
Thanks for posting those.
Looks like the headphone out is a lot more linear than the line out! ... Not sure what those 2 'dips' are near the top of the line out display ?
Headphone out looks a lot better ....seems to roll off pretty steeply at around 60KHz , but is pretty linear below that. (Line out seems to vary quite lot in amplitude?)......
Just to add, I've had the chance to measure thngs for myself, and can confirm that the frequncey response of both the line out socket and the headphne jack extend to 60KHz within 0.5dB and up to 70KHz -6dB.
Above 80KHz no usefully measurable output.
Fortunately this response is always present, so that it's possible to monitor in real time as well as recording these ultrasonic frequencies.
The line out socket also has a limiter option, which will be quite useful for the task I have planned.
Not a very common use for an audio reocrder of course, but it's useful to know the limits of this particular model.
My first use of 32 bit floating point recording, and I have to say I'm very impressed with that format!
Thanks again to those who have responded to my enquiry....
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amazon sale
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09SVN6J35 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09SVN6J35)
List Price: $349.99
-24% $267.34
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amazon sale
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09SVN6J35 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09SVN6J35)
List Price: $349.99
-24% $267.34
If only Amazon Canada had a sale on this right now...
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If only Amazon Canada had a sale on this right now...
B&H ships there. Looks like they have the same price right now.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1686005-REG/zoom_zf3_f3_digital_field_recorder.html
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If only Amazon Canada had a sale on this right now...
B&H ships there. Looks like they have the same price right now.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1686005-REG/zoom_zf3_f3_digital_field_recorder.html
I can order from Amazon US - still cheaper than paying the Canadian Price but hoping there's a sale up here shortly (usually a day or two later).
B&H and Zoom don't like Canada: "Shipping Restriction: Manufacturer's restrictions for the shipping address provided prevent us from completing an order on the following items - Zoom F3 2-Input / 2-Track Portable Field Recorder"
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Well that's a bummer. I wasn't aware. Hopefully a sale comes your way soon!
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Well that's a bummer. I wasn't aware. Hopefully a sale comes your way soon!
Thanks. Either that or somebody here (not in this thread, most likely) has one for sale. :)
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Well that's a bummer. I wasn't aware. Hopefully a sale comes your way soon!
Thanks. Either that or somebody here (not in this thread, most likely) has one for sale. :)
Or someone from down here traveling there can bring one.
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Well that's a bummer. I wasn't aware. Hopefully a sale comes your way soon!
Thanks. Either that or somebody here (not in this thread, most likely) has one for sale. :)
Or someone from down here traveling there can bring one.
I like your way of thinking. :)
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EDIT: Just pulled the trigger on the Amazon US deal. Had hoped to find one second hand, however, at the price being the second lowest ATL on Amazon, it made sense to (especially when it was about US$100 cheaper after exchange than buying it locally).
Questions from before:
1. Assuming screen can be dimmed and backlight can be turned off, etc., is there away to turn the screen off as well to save battery time?
2. Assuming it's gaffer tape over the red light and there's no way to turn it off in the settings.
3. What kind of run-times are people getting for 32/48 with +48V phantom power being on with either Eneloop Pros or Lithium Batteries?
Thanks all!
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Congrats. Not sure I can answer your questions. I use the phone app and just put the F3 in a pocket so the lights are not visible. The bluetooth app is not entirely stable but the recorder stays as is if I lose the connection. I run it with the NBox Platinum so I d not know much running 48V phantom.
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Congrats. Not sure I can answer your questions. I use the phone app and just put the F3 in a pocket so the lights are not visible. The bluetooth app is not entirely stable but the recorder stays as is if I lose the connection. I run it with the NBox Platinum so I d not know much running 48V phantom.
Thanks. Heading back to Zoomieland with the F3 and F6. Bluetooth on the SD MixPre-6 II that I own can lose its mind as well so this is nothing new, lol. Assuming you've just turned off the backlight, dimmed the display, taped up the red light and just lock the recorder and do the start stop from the app?
Guess I'll find out about batteries soon enough.
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EDIT: Just pulled the trigger on the Amazon US deal. Had hoped to find one second hand, however, at the price being the second lowest ATL on Amazon, it made sense to (especially when it was about US$100 cheaper after exchange than buying it locally).
Questions from before:
1. Assuming screen can be dimmed and backlight can be turned off, etc., is there away to turn the screen off as well to save battery time?
2. Assuming it's gaffer tape over the red light and there's no way to turn it off in the settings.
3. What kind of run-times are people getting for 32/48 with +48V phantom power being on with either Eneloop Pros or Lithium Batteries?
Thanks all!
1) Screen actually can't be dimmed, but it can be turned on an off. The screen contrast can be adjusted, but that isn't necessarily a dimming function.
2) The red light can't be turned off, so yeah it's tape if you're concerned about the shine. But as other have said, carrying it in your pocket is the way to go. I don't use the bluetooth dongel cause I don't particularly care about checking anything during the show other than to know I'm still rolling and batteries aren't dead. I just hit record and hold, make sure it's recording and then never think about it again until I'm in the car after the show.
3) I'm pretty sure I saw someone report back earlier in this thread that they got 8 hours with lithium batteries AND phantom. Seems like Eneloops were giving people long enough for an entire show...five plus hours. I use a small external so can't tell you from my own experience, but if you want to know definitely, the answer for both battery types is definitely buried in this thread somewhere.
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I like putting the F3s in pockets after I've engaged the hold buttons, but I have noticed with both of my F3s that the units will get pretty warm, if not hot, after an hour or two of use under those conditions. In these cases I am running small external batteries and am powering Line Audio CM3s. Not a big deal, but also not something I've noticed with any other small portable recorder.
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EDIT: Just pulled the trigger on the Amazon US deal. Had hoped to find one second hand, however, at the price being the second lowest ATL on Amazon, it made sense to (especially when it was about US$100 cheaper after exchange than buying it locally).
Questions from before:
1. Assuming screen can be dimmed and backlight can be turned off, etc., is there away to turn the screen off as well to save battery time?
2. Assuming it's gaffer tape over the red light and there's no way to turn it off in the settings.
3. What kind of run-times are people getting for 32/48 with +48V phantom power being on with either Eneloop Pros or Lithium Batteries?
Thanks all!
1) Screen actually can't be dimmed, but it can be turned on an off. The screen contrast can be adjusted, but that isn't necessarily a dimming function.
2) The red light can't be turned off, so yeah it's tape if you're concerned about the shine. But as other have said, carrying it in your pocket is the way to go. I don't use the bluetooth dongel cause I don't particularly care about checking anything during the show other than to know I'm still rolling and batteries aren't dead. I just hit record and hold, make sure it's recording and then never think about it again until I'm in the car after the show.
3) I'm pretty sure I saw someone report back earlier in this thread that they got 8 hours with lithium batteries AND phantom. Seems like Eneloops were giving people long enough for an entire show...five plus hours. I use a small external so can't tell you from my own experience, but if you want to know definitely, the answer for both battery types is definitely buried in this thread somewhere.
I’ve never seen NIMH do 5 hours, 4 is a stretch. I wouldn’t be comfortable doing a 2 set show on 2 batteries
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Hi
Just got an F3 can someone help me with phantom power for my Schopes CCM5s and DPA 4061s
Should I use line (+48v) or Mic (+48) or does it not matter
Also can anyone recommend a good smallish external power block that will give me 10 hours+ power?
cheers
Duncan
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Hi
Just got an F3 can someone help me with phantom power for my Schopes CCM5s and DPA 4061s
Should I use line (+48v) or Mic (+48) or does it not matter
Also can anyone recommend a good smallish external power block that will give me 10 hours+ power?
cheers
Duncan
mic in is what you want. line in will pad the input and raise noise floor by 20 dB
any of the common (smaller than a phone) 5000-7000 mAh batteries will run for longer than a show and you can use the internals as backup to get 2-7 hours depending on the cells you select.
a 10000 mah battery is a little bigger but should run it all day. the ccm5s are prob gonna use more power than the 4061s
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Hi
Just got an F3 can someone help me with phantom power for my Schopes CCM5s and DPA 4061s
Should I use line (+48v) or Mic (+48) or does it not matter
Also can anyone recommend a good smallish external power block that will give me 10 hours+ power?
cheers
Duncan
mic in is what you want. line in will pad the input and raise noise floor by 20 dB
any of the common (smaller than a phone) 5000-7000 mAh batteries will run for longer than a show and you can use the internals as backup to get 2-7 hours depending on the cells you select.
a 10000 mah battery is a little bigger but should run it all day. the ccm5s are prob gonna use more power than the 4061s
Thanks very much
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Just tested my new F3 with a pair of Clippys, connected with a LOM Usi Phantom Adapter. The F3 was set to Mic (24V), which the adapter converted to 8V.
I used two AA Amazon Basics high-capacity rechargeable batteries (Ni-MH 1.2V 2400mAh AA HR6). It recorded for 7 hours and 26 minutes before the batteries ran out.
I usually use a pair of CA-11s to tape shows, but I'm assuming the power consumption won't be that different from the Clippys. I was worried about battery life, but this is actually pretty good imho. No need to worry about an external power source.
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Just tested my new F3 with a pair of Clippys, connected with a LOM Usi Phantom Adapter. The F3 was set to Mic (24V), which the adapter converted to 8V.
I used two AA Amazon Basics high-capacity rechargeable batteries (Ni-MH 1.2V 2400mAh AA HR6). It recorded for 7 hours and 26 minutes before the batteries ran out.
I usually use a pair of CA-11s to tape shows, but I'm assuming the power consumption won't be that different from the Clippys. I was worried about battery life, but this is actually pretty good imho. No need to worry about an external power source.
Awesome. Were you able to get the LOM Usi adapter shipped to the US?
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Just tested my new F3 with a pair of Clippys, connected with a LOM Usi Phantom Adapter. The F3 was set to Mic (24V), which the adapter converted to 8V.
I used two AA Amazon Basics high-capacity rechargeable batteries (Ni-MH 1.2V 2400mAh AA HR6). It recorded for 7 hours and 26 minutes before the batteries ran out.
I usually use a pair of CA-11s to tape shows, but I'm assuming the power consumption won't be that different from the Clippys. I was worried about battery life, but this is actually pretty good imho. No need to worry about an external power source.
Awesome. Were you able to get the LOM Usi adapter shipped to the US?
No, I had it it shipped to the UK. Shipping was fairly expensive (€25), but it did arrive the next day.
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I have a question about the Zoom F3's "Exceeding maximum input" warning. I understand this is displayed when the signal exceeds +4 dBu (MIC) or +24 dBu (LINE). Is the maximum input level designed to coincide with the waveform display looking clipped - say, if it doesn't fit the display at x1 magnification, as if it were exceeding 0 dBFS? This would make sense to me, but then toggling between MIC and LINE would change the representation of the same input level, correct? Does this actually happen? Does the wave look smaller when you've switched to LINE?
And if the waveform representation does not change when you toggle modes, then what does the wave on the display need to look like for the input to clip the analogue stage of the device?
Using my CA-11s, I was unable to exceed +4 dBU with my home speakers. Using a pair of clippys, I was able to exceed it by having the speakers at full volume about 20cm away from the mics. But I didn't pay attention to the waveform when this happened, and I won't be able to run more tests any time soon because of the neighbours.
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Contacted Zoom through their website saying:
"Hello, I have a zoom F3 and so far I am loving the ease of use and sound quality from it but there is a slight issue that I wanted to inquire about. On every other recorder I own, including a Zoom F4, and others in the market, when it is actively recording and you press the record button again it starts a new track seamlessly but with the F3 it seems to stop recording which can be a hassle when the slider is accidentally pressed or if I'm not certain that I placed the device on hold and go to take it off hold. Is this something that could be amended in a firmware update? I know of other users that have the same qualm with an otherwise awesome device. Thank you"
And got response today saying:
"Hello,
Thank you for contacting us with your feedback. I will forward your suggestion to the engineers at Zoom Corporation in Japan to consider for a future update.
Please let me know if you have any other questions."
So hopefully they can fix that in a firmware update, will update here if I get notification one way or another.
On a related note, the 6sec pre-record saved my butt last night when I accidentally hit the record button while rolling and then almost immediately hit record again when I noticed what I'd done (and again when I stopped the recording thinking the band was finished and they started an encore while my back was turned) and there was no audible gap in the playback. So while useful, would still much prefer the record button to seamlessly start a new track than to stop the recording.
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$237.49 at Amazon today. Can't be beat.
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I've picked up one of these and expect to receive it the next couple of days.
I'm hoping to tape a fairly special gig in about a week's time - are there any particular tips or pitfalls to avoid?
Normally I wouldn't risk new gear at an important show but I'm anticipating fairly tight security so a one-box ultra stealth solution is tempting.
Is it really as simple as: put decent batteries in, turn phantom on, set recording format and hit go? Having secured the hold switch, of course.
Aiming to run a pair of DPA 4022s straight into it.
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I've picked up one of these and expect to receive it the next couple of days.
I'm hoping to tape a fairly special gig in about a week's time - are there any particular tips or pitfalls to avoid?
Normally I wouldn't risk new gear at an important show but I'm anticipating fairly tight security so a one-box ultra stealth solution is tempting.
Is it really as simple as: put decent batteries in, turn phantom on, set recording format and hit go? Having secured the hold switch, of course.
Aiming to run a pair of DPA 4022s straight into it.
Exactly as you've described. It's that easy!
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Exactly as you've described. It's that easy!
Amazing. Thank you :D
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Exactly as you've described. It's that easy!
Amazing. Thank you :D
Just make sure you are aware of battery life. If it's a long show, I would change batteries at setbreak until you test your mics into that recorder to see how long they will go. I get scared about doing any more than 3 hours myself, but many members have reported their results earlier in the thread
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Exactly as you've described. It's that easy!
Amazing. Thank you :D
Just make sure you are aware of battery life. If it's a long show, I would change batteries at setbreak until you test your mics into that recorder to see how long they will go. I get scared about doing any more than 3 hours myself, but many members have reported their results earlier in the thread
Use Lithium Batteries for long shows without worry. Not stealthing then hook it up to a small power bank.
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Thanks for the further replies.
I'm pretty sure that show will be barely 90 minutes but I'll still invest in some premium ones.
Really looking forward to getting my hands on this little thing...
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Thanks for the further replies.
I'm pretty sure that show will be barely 90 minutes but I'll still invest in some premium ones.
Really looking forward to getting my hands on this little thing...
Off-topic, but I think I ran into you at the Deaf Institute some 12 years ago! Did you ever share your recording of Bowerbirds? I was thinking about that show just the other day, and I'd love to give it another listen.
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Thanks for the further replies.
I'm pretty sure that show will be barely 90 minutes but I'll still invest in some premium ones.
Really looking forward to getting my hands on this little thing...
One thing I think worth pointing out, is that while you do not actually set the gain and you do not need to worry about the gain, you can set the (fader) output, which may save you a few steps in post. It is intuitive, and you will see the buttons giving you the ability for each channel on the front screen, with the buttons to alter your output which again affects not your true gain, but how hot or not the signal that goes into your DAW or editing software is. The good news is even if this is way off, you will be fine.
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Off-topic, but I think I ran into you at the Deaf Institute some 12 years ago! Did you ever share your recording of Bowerbirds? I was thinking about that show just the other day, and I'd love to give it another listen.
Hello! I don't think that recording ever got shared but I know I saw it on an old hard drive a few weeks ago - will dig it out...
Were you taping as well? Apologies for my poor memory...
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One thing I think worth pointing out, is that while you do not actually set the gain and you do not need to worry about the gain, you can set the (fader) output, which may save you a few steps in post. It is intuitive, and you will see the buttons giving you the ability for each channel on the front screen, with the buttons to alter your output which again affects not your true gain, but how hot or not the signal that goes into your DAW or editing software is. The good news is even if this is way off, you will be fine.
Interesting - ta for that. I'm thinking I should probably read through the 32-bit recording threads at some point soon.
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Hello! I don't think that recording ever got shared but I know I saw it on an old hard drive a few weeks ago - will dig it out...
Were you taping as well? Apologies for my poor memory...
No worries! I only saw you with your gear on the way out. I wasn't taping, I was only just starting to dip my toes into it at the time - I had a little Zoom H1 and a camera, and I recorded a couple of songs from a position that wasn't great for audio.
Ta, let me know when you dig it out!
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My editor is about to purchase one for the newsroom: any necessary accessories you'd recommend for field use?
ETA: just saw the EVA case & Anker power supply reccs
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I gave this a test run at band rehearsal last night using AT-853s via Samson phantom adaptors.
Very impressed with the ease of use but it really ate those batteries. I started off with some partially used alkalines and then swapped to a set of Energizer Max alkalines that the drummer had to hand (previous use unclear).
I've picked up some Energizer Max Plus AAs today as I can't seem to find any of the Energizer Ultimate Lithiums that I used to use in my D8 but I wondering if these will be sufficient to power a pair of 4022s for 90 minutes.
I found a page comparing the two types of cell here: https://modernsurvivalblog.com/alternative-energy/2-reasons-why-lithium-aa-batteries-are-better-than-alkaline/
What do you reckon? Will the relatively small current required by the DPAs be ok for these batteries or should I try and source some Lithiums before Tuesday?
I suppose I should just sacrifice a set and leave them running tonight and see what happens...
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I gave this a test run at band rehearsal last night using AT-853s via Samson phantom adaptors.
Very impressed with the ease of use but it really ate those batteries. I started off with some partially used alkalines and then swapped to a set of Energizer Max alkalines that the drummer had to hand (previous use unclear).
I've picked up some Energizer Max Plus AAs today as I can't seem to find any of the Energizer Ultimate Lithiums that I used to use in my D8 but I wondering if these will be sufficient to power a pair of 4022s for 90 minutes.
I found a page comparing the two types of cell here: https://modernsurvivalblog.com/alternative-energy/2-reasons-why-lithium-aa-batteries-are-better-than-alkaline/
What do you reckon? Will the relatively small current required by the DPAs be ok for these batteries or should I try and source some Lithiums before Tuesday?
I suppose I should just sacrifice a set and leave them running tonight and see what happens...
If you aren't stealthing, or space constrained, I'd pick up a battery block and power it via usb-c. Good ones are still relatively cheap, and will give you a ton of run time.
Edit - saw your earlier posts...so it sounds like an external battery isn't what you need.
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Don't forget that whenever you're running any kind of phantom adapter that reduces voltage, you can set the F3 to output 24v (instead of 48v) and that will use less battery life. You actually don't use the Menu button to change this, the little settings buttons on the front is what you use.
I think I posted this a while ago, but I've had so much success with these little portable batteries that I'll post again: the Miady 5000 mAh portable batteries are quite small (see pic below) and have given me zero issues. I think I recently did a ~9-hour festival (at 24v) and there was still 3/4 remaining on the batt meter. A 2-pack is currently $14:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08T8TDS8S?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1
I also use these right angle USB cables:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BM3QS7SM?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1
I've actually bought 6 Miady batteries and haven't had any issues. I have 4 of the 15000mAh batts. These aren't a name brand like Anker, and some people have had issues with cheaper (probably Chinese) batteries like this, but I've used all 6 of my Miady's for 75+ shows without a single issue. YMMV, but hopefully not.
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I've just done a test and got just over two hours out of the Engergizer Max Plus AAs with the battery indicator down to one bar with the DPA 4022s.
I didn't bother running it down to empty as I don't anticipate needing that long. I hope this helps someone else too.
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I used the 4022 > F3 set up to tape the Sex Pistols/Frank Carter gig last week and am very happy with the ease of use and results.
Also used it with AT-853s and a USB power pack to record my own band and support on Saturday - similarly happy.
I think were it not for the chunky metal casing and the hold switch seemingly being designed to facilitate failure, this may be my ultimate (2-track) recorder.
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I used the 4022 > F3 set up to tape the Sex Pistols/Frank Carter gig last week and am very happy with the ease of use and results.
Also used it with AT-853s and a USB power pack to record my own band and support on Saturday - similarly happy.
I think were it not for the chunky metal casing and the hold switch seemingly being designed to facilitate failure, this may be my ultimate (2-track) recorder.
What I love is that I can place it on hold and then hit record from the app with the BT dongle before locking it in the device. Can also change input to mic/ph in that as well. So much easier than using the buttons on the deck and pretty bulletproof.
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I used the 4022 > F3 set up to tape the Sex Pistols/Frank Carter gig last week and am very happy with the ease of use and results.
Also used it with AT-853s and a USB power pack to record my own band and support on Saturday - similarly happy.
I think were it not for the chunky metal casing and the hold switch seemingly being designed to facilitate failure, this may be my ultimate (2-track) recorder.
I don't quite get it. For me this is one of the best Hold buttons, and I have quite a few decks. It is virtually impossible to take hold off accidentally. I think the design is brilliant.
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What I love is that I can place it on hold and then hit record from the app with the BT dongle before locking it in the device. Can also change input to mic/ph in that as well. So much easier than using the buttons on the deck and pretty bulletproof.
I didn't realize this - hadn't really thought about getting the bluetooth adapter but this might make me think again.
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I don't quite get it. For me this is one of the best Hold buttons, and I have quite a few decks. It is virtually impossible to take hold off accidentally. I think the design is brilliant.
I don't like the way if hold gets accidentally disengaged, the same movement that would have done this will also stop the recording too. Made worse by the fact that the switch itself isn't recessed. A nudge in a bag could quite easily achieve this, I'd reckon. Gaffa taped it into place though.
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Or if it could be like most every other recorder (even the F4!) where hitting record while it's rolling seamlessly starts a new track then it wouldn't be an issue. I've accidentally stopped a recording before by trying to take it off hold and sliding the button too far :facepalm:
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Interestingly, I'm sure I read in the instructions (or possibly on the website) that it was designed so that if the hold switch was disengaged, the same actuation would not also stop recording. But this is demonstrably not the case.
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Interestingly, I'm sure I read in the instructions (or possibly on the website) that it was designed so that if the hold switch was disengaged, the same actuation would not also stop recording. But this is demonstrably not the case.
Strange, this is demonstrably the case with my unit. Once Hold is active, pushing the button the opposite way will not start or stop recording, only disengage Hold. It takes letting it go and pushing it again to start/stop recording. I've done this dozens of times without fail.
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I wonder if there's a firmware update I need to get...
[Edit: have just done some experimenting with this and it seems that even a microsecond's delay in moving the switch from hold through to REC will cause the recording to stop. Presumably this timing is something that could be fixed in firmware though]
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I wonder if there's a firmware update I need to get...
[Edit: have just done some experimenting with this and it seems that even a microsecond's delay in moving the switch from hold through to REC will cause the recording to stop. Presumably this timing is something that could be fixed in firmware though]
I'd get in touch with Zoom about this then because they can probably fix the issue.
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Amazon sale today for $218.49. Lowest price I've seen. Smokin' deal. https://www.amazon.com/Zoom-F3-Professional-Recording-Converters/dp/B09SVN6J35/ref=sr_1_2?crid=20707J1ESDMK8&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.fhG6e6b4M1n4uEOoQxLAodVwMXVza1-wZnE-qhSjBDakcr6VFlmvcNGDyhGhicD4cS4Hudj_C4zRCm2gaIzrgO9vIA9Uwq1knMk-DuBOmkNjQ6SZRjKWlaoiZsULofp1bX6XHxH29YGcY6PzDDBQNhGhBp3Oo4F1JbgKsIRe3tBAoZs2YU5b4_NE-Cl-QN465sM6MxPq04Auh-Y9dlSkwRQ2jS7M7sVUcJ5rUf9wQW7QjdYaXLdk2H_EeTCf4wmrcaRJtBilyx0EY0q2G9EHvTzf_JZ9IRTkRcW1ugBy8Zg.Lu-WxDOo08w135I76ZDzO-4oJIsTvXOGTkjID77Vkm0&dib_tag=se&keywords=zoom%2Bf3&qid=1728400259&sprefix=zoom%2Bf3%2Caps%2C106&sr=8-2&th=1
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Ahhh...
Third stealth outing with the F3 and the first time I forgot to bring some tape to secure the hold switch >:(
The inevitable did indeed happen and I ended up missing the final song of the night. Thankfully it was just a slightly lacklustre Travelling Wilburys tribute act that I was only taping to keep my hand in.
I had the recorder in my bag and it looks like the switch must have been knocked when I stood up (the band asked everyone to stand while they took a photo of themselves from the stage...) I initially thought that the batteries had died but when I switched it back on I still had two bars left.
Lesson very much learned - I'm going to keep a small strip of gaffa permanently stuck to the back of the F3 so it's always to hand.
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Ahhh...
Third stealth outing with the F3 and the first time I forgot to bring some tape to secure the hold switch >:(
The inevitable did indeed happen and I ended up missing the final song of the night. Thankfully it was just a slightly lacklustre Travelling Wilburys tribute act that I was only taping to keep my hand in.
I had the recorder in my bag and it looks like the switch must have been knocked when I stood up (the band asked everyone to stand while they took a photo of themselves from the stage...) I initially thought that the batteries had died but when I switched it back on I still had two bars left.
Lesson very much learned - I'm going to keep a small strip of gaffa permanently stuck to the back of the F3 so it's always to hand.
I'm sorry for your mishap... Fortunately it doesn't sound like the most important recording ever... I recently got my Tascam FR-AV2 and I am very worried about accidentally stopping the recording too, as there is no real hold switch on that one. (Accidentally) pressing the stop button for three seconds is enough, and it feels it's something that could easily happen when it's in a bag or in my pocket. And no way to prevent that by gaffa tape :o
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You don't run a second machine for patches???
Internal mics > PCM-A10 beats blank space...
:'(
:o
;)
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Concur. Always run two rigs for that reason.
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Ahhh...
Third stealth outing with the F3 and the first time I forgot to bring some tape to secure the hold switch >:(
The inevitable did indeed happen and I ended up missing the final song of the night. Thankfully it was just a slightly lacklustre Travelling Wilburys tribute act that I was only taping to keep my hand in.
I had the recorder in my bag and it looks like the switch must have been knocked when I stood up (the band asked everyone to stand while they took a photo of themselves from the stage...) I initially thought that the batteries had died but when I switched it back on I still had two bars left.
Lesson very much learned - I'm going to keep a small strip of gaffa permanently stuck to the back of the F3 so it's always to hand.
I think your deck has a defective issue, because that doesn not happen with mine. I get pretty swirrly at times and dig through my bag like squirrel looking for a nut and nothing every happens.
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Took a hacksaw to my F3 chopping the legs off flush with the bottom. I put the unit on its edge cut the legs from the inside using the bottom of the unit as a guide. I then flipped it over and did the other 2 legs. I cleaned up the edges with a nail file and put 3/8" wide stick-on round black rubber feet on the cut part and covered the remaining bare metal with a black sharpie. I was amazed at how well it turned out. It looks like it was made that way. Rubber feet wider than 3/8" will interfere with the battery door. Needless to say, I was a little hesitant to take a hacksaw to a $300 electronic device but am super pleased with the result. Once I started cutting there was no turning back.
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Took a hacksaw to my F3 chopping the legs off flush with the bottom. I put the unit on its edge cut the legs from the inside using the bottom of the unit as a guide. I then flipped it over and did the other 2 legs. I cleaned up the edges with a nail file and put 3/8" wide stick-on round black rubber feet on the cut part and covered the remaining bare metal with a black sharpie. I was amazed at how well it turned out. It looks like it was made that way. Rubber feet wider than 3/8" will interfere with the battery door. Needless to say, I was a little hesitant to take a hacksaw to a $300 electronic device but am super pleased with the result. Once I started cutting there was no turning back.
Pictures or it didn’t happen :)
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Took a hacksaw to my F3 chopping the legs off flush with the bottom. I put the unit on its edge cut the legs from the inside using the bottom of the unit as a guide. I then flipped it over and did the other 2 legs. I cleaned up the edges with a nail file and put 3/8" wide stick-on round black rubber feet on the cut part and covered the remaining bare metal with a black sharpie. I was amazed at how well it turned out. It looks like it was made that way. Rubber feet wider than 3/8" will interfere with the battery door. Needless to say, I was a little hesitant to take a hacksaw to a $300 electronic device but am super pleased with the result. Once I started cutting there was no turning back.
Pictures or it didn’t happen :)
Oh, it happened. Ask and ye shall receive. I scuffed the bottom a little bit with the edge of the hacksaw but no real consequence.
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I’m so going to buy an F3 just so I can do that! I think it looks better than the other modification that takes the sides off.
What’s the dimensions of the F3 without the legs?
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I’m so going to buy an F3 just so I can do that! I think it looks better than the other modification that takes the sides off.
What’s the dimensions of the F3 without the legs?
3" long, 2.8" wide, 1.5" tall without rubber feet, 1.59" with rubber feet. The cut off legs are .33" tall. It really does make it more compact and less cumbersome.
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I may need to try that too
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Took a hacksaw to my F3 chopping the legs off flush with the bottom. I put the unit on its edge cut the legs from the inside using the bottom of the unit as a guide. I then flipped it over and did the other 2 legs. I cleaned up the edges with a nail file and put 3/8" wide stick-on round black rubber feet on the cut part and covered the remaining bare metal with a black sharpie. I was amazed at how well it turned out. It looks like it was made that way. Rubber feet wider than 3/8" will interfere with the battery door. Needless to say, I was a little hesitant to take a hacksaw to a $300 electronic device but am super pleased with the result. Once I started cutting there was no turning back.
Pictures or it didn’t happen :)
Oh, it happened. Ask and ye shall receive. I scuffed the bottom a little bit with the edge of the hacksaw but no real consequence.
You do know there's an easier way, right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0W2nYJD56ow (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0W2nYJD56ow)
Essentially, you pop the rubber bumpers off the bars, unscrew them and then pop the rubber pieces back in place. I haven't gotten there yet but plan to over Christmas break.
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You do know there's an easier way, right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0W2nYJD56ow (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0W2nYJD56ow)
Essentially, you pop the rubber bumpers off the bars, unscrew them and then pop the rubber pieces back in place. I haven't gotten there yet but plan to over Christmas break.
That removes the bars for easier mounting but doesn’t reduce the overall dimensions though. It’s either chop the legs off like mepaca did, or go a bit further and do what eman did here:
https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=198715.msg2395440#msg2395440
I’m enough of an idiot to want to buy an F3 just to do the modification.
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But can you afford the saw as well as the F3? :)
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$249 at Amazon and B&H right now
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199.99 at B&H today only.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1686005-REG/zoom_zf3_f3_digital_field_recorder.html
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199.99 at B&H today only.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1686005-REG/zoom_zf3_f3_digital_field_recorder.html
Not only is that a good deal but they throw in Zoom BTA-1 Bluetooth Adapter for free when you add the F3 to your cart. I may or may not have jumped on this.
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So, here's a weird one. I've used the F3 on three occasions without issue. My buddy borrowed it because of a postal strike delaying the return of his TinyBox from the States.
Recorded one show without issue; I had warned him that depending on that show, he might want to change the batteries after that one but he mistook that for two more shows where it died and powered off on the second show. Changed the batteries (lithium) that were unused and the unit wouldn't come alive. Tried some alkaline's to suffer the same fate.
Anybody else experience this? I'm asking him to take the batteries out for a few hours and then reinsert them while holding the on button to see if that helps. Depending on what happens, I'm going to try powering it here with a USB power bank to see if that'll help. Any other thoughts?
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Sounds right. Just to get an obvious question out of the way, confirmed that the new batteries were inserted in the correct orientation?
Comes to mind as battery replacement in the Deity PR-2 makes me think twice each time as both AA's are oriented in the same direction.
199.99 at B&H today only.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1686005-REG/zoom_zf3_f3_digital_field_recorder.html
Not only is that a good deal but they throw in Zoom BTA-1 Bluetooth Adapter for free when you add the F3 to your cart. I may or may not have jumped on this.
I probably should have jumped too just as a dedicated SBD recorder to pair with my F8 that has no remaining channels free. Need to look into clock sync'ing the two. I know other folks have done it.
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So, here's a weird one. I've used the F3 on three occasions without issue. My buddy borrowed it because of a postal strike delaying the return of his TinyBox from the States.
Recorded one show without issue; I had warned him that depending on that show, he might want to change the batteries after that one but he mistook that for two more shows where it died and powered off on the second show. Changed the batteries (lithium) that were unused and the unit wouldn't come alive. Tried some alkaline's to suffer the same fate.
Anybody else experience this? I'm asking him to take the batteries out for a few hours and then reinsert them while holding the on button to see if that helps. Depending on what happens, I'm going to try powering it here with a USB power bank to see if that'll help. Any other thoughts?
That is strange. I have occasionally let my F3 run out of battery power deliberately to see how long it would run on a given type of battery. I have never had any problems restarting it with fresh batteries after the test was over.
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I probably should have jumped too just as a dedicated SBD recorder to pair with my F8 that has no remaining channels free. Need to look into clock sync'ing the two. I know other folks have done it.
This is using timecode stamps, correct? Essentially using bluetooth software to insert a marker in the files of each recorder so you can line them up in post? (But with the files still subject to digital drift, although modern word clocks are subject to much less drift, especially from the same manufacturer).
I'm guessing I will need another bluetooth adapter if I'm going to do this with an F3 and F6....
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So, here's a weird one. I've used the F3 on three occasions without issue. My buddy borrowed it because of a postal strike delaying the return of his TinyBox from the States.
Recorded one show without issue; I had warned him that depending on that show, he might want to change the batteries after that one but he mistook that for two more shows where it died and powered off on the second show. Changed the batteries (lithium) that were unused and the unit wouldn't come alive. Tried some alkaline's to suffer the same fate.
Anybody else experience this? I'm asking him to take the batteries out for a few hours and then reinsert them while holding the on button to see if that helps. Depending on what happens, I'm going to try powering it here with a USB power bank to see if that'll help. Any other thoughts?
Is the hold button engaged? The F3 has a physical hold switch (not digital) and needs to be taken off in order to turn the unit on (don't ask how I know this).
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So, here's a weird one. I've used the F3 on three occasions without issue. My buddy borrowed it because of a postal strike delaying the return of his TinyBox from the States.
Recorded one show without issue; I had warned him that depending on that show, he might want to change the batteries after that one but he mistook that for two more shows where it died and powered off on the second show. Changed the batteries (lithium) that were unused and the unit wouldn't come alive. Tried some alkaline's to suffer the same fate.
Anybody else experience this? I'm asking him to take the batteries out for a few hours and then reinsert them while holding the on button to see if that helps. Depending on what happens, I'm going to try powering it here with a USB power bank to see if that'll help. Any other thoughts?
Is the hold button engaged? The F3 has a physical hold switch (not digital) and needs to be taken off in order to turn the unit on (don't ask how I know this).
I do this regularly. I try to turn the unit on, nothing happens and only then do I remember the hold switch is on. ::)
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for a year, I had a D3 dat recorder I thought was broken because the hold switch was on and I didn't know it existed.
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Got an F3, like what it does well (record 32f), but have a few quibbles with user interface, primarily. Mind if I just crash this thread with my gripes, lol?
I hope Zoom can fix these with a firmware update.
When the F3 powers on it is NOT ready to record, I have to press one of two buttons to make the menu disappear (back or menu) before I can activate the record function.
Got the bluetooth adapter, but when I take my phone out of range, it locks me out until the deck is shut off. While I'm locked out of remote control (Tethered remote!?) I can't use the "magnification" function on the machine via the buttons like usual, again, until the deck is powered off, as far as I can tell. Tried simply unplugging the bluetooth dongle, but then that would not function again until the deck was restarted with it in place.
On the plus side, file splits seem smooth and the price was right, I'll say that. Got a super nice deal from a taper buddy, thanks mon!
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So, here's a weird one. I've used the F3 on three occasions without issue. My buddy borrowed it because of a postal strike delaying the return of his TinyBox from the States.
Recorded one show without issue; I had warned him that depending on that show, he might want to change the batteries after that one but he mistook that for two more shows where it died and powered off on the second show. Changed the batteries (lithium) that were unused and the unit wouldn't come alive. Tried some alkaline's to suffer the same fate.
Anybody else experience this? I'm asking him to take the batteries out for a few hours and then reinsert them while holding the on button to see if that helps. Depending on what happens, I'm going to try powering it here with a USB power bank to see if that'll help. Any other thoughts?
Is the hold button engaged? The F3 has a physical hold switch (not digital) and needs to be taken off in order to turn the unit on (don't ask how I know this).
I do this regularly. I try to turn the unit on, nothing happens and only then do I remember the hold switch is on. ::)
I asked him about this very question and he said that wasn't it. He took the batteries out, waited a little and then put new ones in and it's alive again.
Chalking it up to user error.
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He ‘said’ that it wasn’t the hold button … which would have been slightly embarrassing 😀
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When the F3 powers on it is NOT ready to record, I have to press one of two buttons to make the menu disappear (back or menu) before I can activate the record function.
Strange -- I have three of the little beasts and none of them have this quirk. After they power up, all I have to do is to push the hold/record slider on the right side upwards to start recording. I then slide the slider downwards towards me to engage hold.
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He ‘said’ that it wasn’t the hold button … which would have been slightly embarrassing 😀
He's quite technically savvy and knows gear. He just likes to be a Zoom basher while I bash Trascan's.
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He ‘said’ that it wasn’t the hold button … which would have been slightly embarrassing 😀
He's quite technically savvy and knows gear. He just likes to be a Zoom basher while I bash Trascan's.
I agree with your buddy! :bigsmile:
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This is a quick PSA about external power supplies:
This past weekend the choir I perform with had our winter concert. Even though our board hires a "pro" recording company (read heavy air quotes) a buddy of mine in the choir likes to put up his 414s in the organ loft of wherever we are singing, and run them into his F3 so he can post samples for the choir to listen to right away.
I was helping him set up before the concert, and when he went to plug in his USB-C battery, he noticed it was just about dead. With no time to charge it, I noticed a nearby power strip, and he had a phone charger in his bag. Power for the concert, acquired!
He sent me the raw files because he knows I'm good with RX, and I just took a crack at them this evening. Sadly, it seems that phone charger introduced some very obtrusive power supply switching noise into the recording, and while Spectral Denoise can do wonders for steady-state noise, it doesn't help that much with the constant HF ticking from the switching noise.
So, while this may be an issue with this particular phone charger we grabbed at the last minute, he is going to double-check that he always has charged batteries and not plug into an AC adapter anymore.
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When the F3 powers on it is NOT ready to record, I have to press one of two buttons to make the menu disappear (back or menu) before I can activate the record function.
Strange -- I have three of the little beasts and none of them have this quirk. After they power up, all I have to do is to push the hold/record slider on the right side upwards to start recording. I then slide the slider downwards towards me to engage hold.
That's how it behaves without the bluetooth adapter. Perhaps you don't run the bt?
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He ‘said’ that it wasn’t the hold button … which would have been slightly embarrassing 😀
He's quite technically savvy and knows gear. He just likes to be a Zoom basher while I bash Trascan's.
I agree with your buddy! :bigsmile:
Hey, who asked you, anyhow, since you don't have any current Zoom gear.
Just kidding! I'm putting his issues down to operator error. And I'll let your comment side.
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When the F3 powers on it is NOT ready to record, I have to press one of two buttons to make the menu disappear (back or menu) before I can activate the record function.
Strange -- I have three of the little beasts and none of them have this quirk. After they power up, all I have to do is to push the hold/record slider on the right side upwards to start recording. I then slide the slider downwards towards me to engage hold.
That's how it behaves without the bluetooth adapter. Perhaps you don't run the bt?
Aha! That explains it! I did not realize that the first of your two concerns--the F3 not being ready to record upon start up--was also related to the use of BT. Yup, I don't need to run BT in my use of the F3.
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I stopped using bluetooth back when I had an F3 because it was relatively unreliable. But I mostly used the F3 as "set and forget".
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[snip..] while Spectral Denoise can do wonders for steady-state noise, it doesn't help that much with the constant HF ticking from the switching noise.
You might try a "declick" type filter on it. Or one intended for cleaning up the noise on LP transfers.
Yeah, one nice thing about standard taper recording methods is clean battery-supplied DC power. Although one thing I've long wondered about is how clean the output of the voltage regulators / converters in modern external batteries actually are. Susceptibility to a noisy switch-mode power supply will vary depending on the gear being powered and the quality of its supply filtering, but standard batteries without regulators/converters in them will always be cleanest.
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Yeah, one nice thing about standard taper recording methods is clean battery-supplied DC power. Although one thing I've long wondered about is how clean the output of the voltage regulators / converters in modern external batteries actually are. Susceptibility to a noisy switch-mode power supply will vary depending on the gear being powered and the quality of its supply filtering, but standard batteries without regulators/converters in them will always be cleanest.
Pad down a 5v power line and run it into a line input at your highest sample rate and take a look-see? #HalfAssedOscilloscope
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Creative! Will also make for a DC offset check of the recorder.
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Yeah, one nice thing about standard taper recording methods is clean battery-supplied DC power. Although one thing I've long wondered about is how clean the output of the voltage regulators / converters in modern external batteries actually are. Susceptibility to a noisy switch-mode power supply will vary depending on the gear being powered and the quality of its supply filtering, but standard batteries without regulators/converters in them will always be cleanest.
Pad down a 5v power line and run it into a line input at your highest sample rate and take a look-see? #HalfAssedOscilloscope
Padding down (attenuating) the 5-volts DC will also pad down the noise riding on it. A better solution is to AC couple the voltage (as in using a capacitor) to block the DC, allowing the just fluctuating noise signal to pass. Of course the best way to do this would be to use a real oscilloscope, since a component of the noise could easily be outside of the audio band, but still interfere with proper equipment operation.
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I have noticed that when I power my Line CM3s with 48 volts from my Zoom F3, the F3 will become very very warm if I keep it tucked deep into a pocket, so warm that it will actually shut down. I have taken to actually removing the AA batteries from the battery compartment and running it solely from an external power bank to allow the unit to shed heat through the empty AA battery compartment. I keep the battery compartment door in a pocket while running the F3 this way. I started doing this after the unit shut down on more than one occasion and I noticed that the AA batteries were quite hot when I removed them. I was using an external power bank at the time that these incidents occurred.
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Got an F3, like what it does well (record 32f), but have a few quibbles with user interface, primarily. Mind if I just crash this thread with my gripes, lol?
...
Got the bluetooth adapter, but when I take my phone out of range, it locks me out until the deck is shut off. While I'm locked out of remote control (Tethered remote!?) I can't use the "magnification" function on the machine via the buttons like usual, again, until the deck is powered off, as far as I can tell. Tried simply unplugging the bluetooth dongle, but then that would not function again until the deck was restarted with it in place.
This remote control function is so badly implemented.
Do I need to write to Zoom with my beefs? Or is it brutally obvious to everyone, do ya think?
Without remote control I can't even SEE the file name or time available on the memory card.
I get it that this box is small, but these are software fixes.
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I'm getting used to my workflow of setting a file name and then power cycling the F3...
I had a practical question which I have answered for myself and figured I would share the Q/A here, since I don't recall seeing an answer in this thread series.
Given that the F3 records 32-float at the magnification level selected at the time the RECORD function is started...
And given that the F3 is able to start a new file automatically at 32f96 every 46:36...
Question:
If I start a recording at one level, for example x2 magnification, and then increase the level to x4 and let the deck run...
and the length of the recording is such that a new file is created...
Will the new file have the magnification setting from when RECORD was instigated, or the setting of the deck at the time the second file was created?
My hypothesis is that the deck would keep the setting from when RECORD was started, so that the files can be safely joined in post production.
My hypothesis was CONFIRMED when I successfully joined two files, knowing full well that I had changed magnification settings on the deck after starting RECORD but before the second file was created.
I hope this helps someone.
How would I craft a search to find this?
"Zoom F3 Create File Magnification" returns nothing
"Zoom F3 File Magnification" is just me and Gutbucket... :lol:
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Yes, and Yes. It's based on file size - once the file size limit is reached the recorder continues recording to a new file. The 46:36 split when recording 2 channels at 32bit/96kHz that morst reports above corresponds to a 2GB file. Some recorders allow you to set it to make smaller sized files if prefered (F8 does, which I use, not sure about F3) but most tapers prefer it leave it set to 2GB so as to limit the number of file splits that occur over the course of a single recorded performance.
Recording 2 channels at 32/96 hits the 2GB split point after about 46 minutes.
Recording 2 channels at 24/96 hits the 2GB split point after about one hour.
Recording 2 channels at 24/48 hits the 2GB split point after about two hours.
etc.
File size is determined by the combination of bit-depth, sample-rate and number of channels, so..
Recording 1 channel at 24/48 hits the 2GB split point after about four hours.
etc.
The above applies to any digital recorder writing uncompressed WAV files. All properly designed digital recorders will make "seamless splits" when starting a new file, but checking that is something folks here always do with any recorder that is new to the market. There have been cases where a newly released recorder produces a slight gap or incontinuity at the split, but that's usually quickly fixed via a firmware update from the manufacturer.
One of the reasons I set my recorders to record at 24/48, split at 2GB, and write single channel or 2 channel stereo files (regardless of how many channels I'm recording) is so that most any performance that does not feature a set-break will still fit within in a single file without any file-splits, and if there are set breaks I start a new file for each set anyway. No problem jointing files back together seamlessly when they do split, but that avoids the need to do so, makes file management easier, and keeps the total size of the stored files reasonable. Since I have the F8 set to write 8 single channel files, a file splits only occurs after around 4 hours.
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Doesn't necessarily help anyone since the battery is no longer made, but Maxoak S12 5200mAh battery fits very nicely underneath.
https://charjishop.com/product/maxoak-5200mah-mini-power-bank-portable-external-battery-digital-display-battery-bank-charger
(https://i.imgur.com/23g7CJl.jpeg)
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Nice, I need to find one like that. As an aside, you can get "low profile" USB-C cables on Amazon as well so you don't have cords sticking out everywhere.
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I poked around for as low-profile USB cable as I could find, the battery is USB-A. The recorder USB-C end is also right angled.
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I poked around for as low-profile USB cable as I could find, the battery is USB-A. The recorder USB-C end is also right angled.
F3 doesn't draw so much juice that USB-A is a problem. My Mixpre6 from Sound Devices will not do more than two channels of the good mic preamps on USB-A, but requires a C plug... I like this about the F3.
(also love 32 float, especially for anything where I might have needed to set record levels on other units!)
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I use these Nimble Champ batteries with my F3's for external power. They work flawlessly for me.
https://www.gonimble.com/collections/portable-battery-chargers/products/champ-lite-portable-charger?source=affiliate&utm_medium=pepperjam&publisherId=21181&clickId=5088461441
https://www.amazon.com/Nimble-Portable-Charging-Compatible-Recycled/dp/B0C42RFST3/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2C1BMDED8IT1D&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.OVvEiP8gkukOz_H4m00wC65XZA2ArtujZO-vq-WBvnrGjHj071QN20LucGBJIEps.doGFOKk3GL5ANkRePq9QensQbrLdAv2hngt1xL4ooqE&dib_tag=se&keywords=nimble%2Bchamp%2Bbattery&qid=1747148899&s=electronics&sprefix=nimble%2Bchamp%2Bbattery%2Celectronics%2C92&sr=1-3&th=1
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I velcro this to the underside of the F3 and use a short USB C to USB C connector. It fits between the 2 metal posts.
https://www.amazon.com/Attom-Tech-Portable-External-Emergency/dp/B07K9HJR4X/ref=sr_1_5?crid=1IPTDD90BCNM4&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.9ad1DJxY_N_kmN7tJqTtairTTlAxvTR1MOxh2kdPHVBa1wEJ9IthFctlNKotxGng0Ry1ntmV-WjzHHhQUFfcUJ-lQLS13vAlD2CivHNShBkO_3nHRdA_QfRlaA79E6mdUwMlcG26Dttv_D5Ml78pRlbYaFWkrSj3qWbOxv3gvQnwqy4Z4aOXBv_svJ_byKeeQCLBKpJkE-I_YA4FrT1KwOH41DmD53Zv8DuhOmOQet8.PFm7amBLRlNR_i9kaRgGkZFoY_4gFto5AbAbPm7e7PA&dib_tag=se&keywords=thinnest+rechargeable+phone+mini+battery&qid=1747151524&sprefix=thinnest+rechargeable+phone+mini+battery%2Caps%2C96&sr=8-5
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I use these Nimble Champ batteries with my F3's for external power. They work flawlessly for me.
How long does this last?
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I use these Nimble Champ batteries with my F3's for external power. They work flawlessly for me.
How long does this last?
I just taped a 3 hour show w/ P48, leaving it on during 1/2 hour break too. It still had 2 bars left at the end of the show. It powered a pair of Schoeps.
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Ran the F3 again last night with the Nimble battery. 1 set. 3 hours 45 minutes straight. Still had 2 full bars left out of 4. Powering a pair of Schoeps again.
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Hi,
We purchased the Zoom F3 but because we use Church Audio microphones with no XLR plugs we use the Rode VXLR+ adaptor to power the microphone.
Is it possible to use two pair of CA14 at the same time: left channel recording the first pair, right channel the other? I really have no idea what the outcome wil be :-)
I do ask this because it is very hard to find an Y audio splitter stereo female input to two male TRS mini jacks output.
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^ Maybe try the female 3.5 mm to dual XLR from Immersive Soundscapes? See the link in the first post in this thread: https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=206011.0 (https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=206011.0).
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Amazon.com: MEIRIYFA 3.5mm to XLR Microphone Cable, Balanced Dual XLR Male to 3.5mm Female Stereo, 1 Feet /30cm
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^ Does that one step the P48 down to 9V? The webpage I saw didn't mention it...
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Aaron, would the adaptor you linked work if I wanted to use my F3 with either nbox or riotbox with actives? I’m assuming it would as I can turn off phantom power on the F3 and then it should be fine, as I don’t want the plug in power for this use case, but wanted to confirm.
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^ Does that one step the P48 down to 9V? The webpage I saw didn't mention it...
It does not. You would have to use a battery box and also reset the F3 to not supply voltage to the mics.
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Has anyone tried rechargeable Lithiums? I did. Got less than 2 hours. Funny thing is the battery meter still showed 3 bars and the unit would turn back on but only for a few seconds. :shrug:
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Has anyone tried rechargeable Lithiums? I did. Got less than 2 hours. Funny thing is the battery meter still showed 3 bars and the unit would turn back on but only for a few seconds. :shrug:
That happened to me one time and I realized I had the hold switch enabled while trying to power on. It would turn on for a few seconds and then turn off.
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Has anyone tried rechargeable Lithiums? I did. Got less than 2 hours. Funny thing is the battery meter still showed 3 bars and the unit would turn back on but only for a few seconds. :shrug:
Those batteries are likely to have a voltage regulator inside them which seeks to maintain a constant voltage output during use, keeping the voltage-discharge curve relatively flat until the battery lacks sufficient current to keep the voltage regulator going just prior to full discharge, upon which voltage drops off rapidly. The recorder has settings for a few different battery types, which calibrates it's battery meter to the different discharge voltage curves of the supported battery types. Most of the supported battery types probably have voltage/discharge curves which is not nearly as flat but instead drop off of more slowly upon nearing full discharge, so the meter becomes inaccurate when using a type of battery that 's not specifically supported.
If you want to use a battery type not offered in the recorder's menu options, test a few times to determine comfortable run times and change out based on run-time.
If you can find the discharge curve for a battery type you'd like to use and compare that to the discharge curves of the battery types explicitly supported by the recorder, you may be able to choose one from the menu which has a similar-enough curve that the meter becomes somewhat more useful. But you'll want to test to determine how to interpret the meter so that you don't risk loosing part of a recording which is important to you.
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Thanks! I think I got bit by the hold button and the battery selection in the menu. Won't happen again. Going with an external.
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The menu is pretty simple on this, but is there a list posted of preferred settings? I've been wading thru the pages and can't seem to find one.
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The menu is pretty simple on this, but is there a list posted of preferred settings? I've been wading thru the pages and can't seem to find one.
Any specific setting(s) that you are interested in? Things like Mic/line and battery type are going to be specific to your environment. Sampling rate of 48kHz is good and going past 96kHz will be overkill. I think my waveform size is at +32 currently. I turn prerecord on to give a little buffer in case I am slow on hitting record. I display elapsed recording time. Sound markers off since don't need to synch with another device.
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The menu is pretty simple on this, but is there a list posted of preferred settings? I've been wading thru the pages and can't seem to find one.
Any specific setting(s) that you are interested in? Things like Mic/line and battery type are going to be specific to your environment. Sampling rate of 48kHz is good and going past 96kHz will be overkill. I think my waveform size is at +32 currently. I turn prerecord on to give a little buffer in case I am slow on hitting record. I display elapsed recording time. Sound markers off since don't need to synch with another device.
Probably just magnification setting. I'm using +64 for now. And as gotbucket discussed in great detail, I need to do some serious testing if I want to try Lithium AA recharegables again.
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Ran a test with the Lithium rechargeable batts and ended up with 4 files. 3 at the 2 gig split and the 4th made it to 1.02 gigs but won't open and in property details it shows zero minutes. I'm guessing it didn't save properly on shutdown. Maybe a lithium quirk? So ended up with 4:30 some minutes not counting the corrupt file.
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^Could be a consequence of the very rapid drop-off in supply voltage which occurs once the voltage regulator inside the battery can no longer draw sufficient current to do its job in maintaining the target output voltage. If graphed, the voltage curve drop off for that battery probably looks more like a steep cliff at the end of a flat plateau, rather than a more gentle hill-shape which drops off over a longer time-period.
That fast drop off in voltage at the end of the battery's discharge cycle may not allow the F3 sufficient time to save the file and shut down gracefully once the battery voltage drops below the recorder's "uh oh, I gotta shutdown now" threshold. .
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^yes makes sense. I forgot to add, I also had the battery setting on nimh. The lithium setting , which I assumed was for throw aways, only got me about 2 hours.
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I velcro this to the underside of the F3 and use a short USB C to USB C connector. It fits between the 2 metal posts.
https://www.amazon.com/Attom-Tech-Portable-External-Emergency/dp/B07K9HJR4X/ref=sr_1_5?crid=1IPTDD90BCNM4&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.9ad1DJxY_N_kmN7tJqTtairTTlAxvTR1MOxh2kdPHVBa1wEJ9IthFctlNKotxGng0Ry1ntmV-WjzHHhQUFfcUJ-lQLS13vAlD2CivHNShBkO_3nHRdA_QfRlaA79E6mdUwMlcG26Dttv_D5Ml78pRlbYaFWkrSj3qWbOxv3gvQnwqy4Z4aOXBv_svJ_byKeeQCLBKpJkE-I_YA4FrT1KwOH41DmD53Zv8DuhOmOQet8.PFm7amBLRlNR_i9kaRgGkZFoY_4gFto5AbAbPm7e7PA&dib_tag=se&keywords=thinnest+rechargeable+phone+mini+battery&qid=1747151524&sprefix=thinnest+rechargeable+phone+mini+battery%2Caps%2C96&sr=8-5
Curious how long this one lasts. I like the fact that it will fit between the rails, but it's size concerns me. Right now I'm using Panasonic Eneloop Pro 2450MAH each and getting a little over 4 hours at 32/48, back light off and no BT.
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I've been meaning to update on the removal of the metal protective "cage" of my F3 to make it more low-profile. I did this last fall after taking advantage of a $200 Zoom F3 BH Photo deal and having 2 F3's.
I used a dremel saw kit (similar to the link below) to make the cuts.
https://www.amazon.com/Blades-Cutting-Plastic-Aluminum-Screwdriver/dp/B0BLSM8Y6Y/ref=sr_1_3_sspa?crid=1A1G1RLJ3JZBN&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.u5Iwkp0qD9SdlmWog31fExVNmjXU1OdGnGE9Vv-81J1TaB8riA3fao9UJPRM7bpiw8LEOA1n2MRj8RB54idEudopuOloLIt23Mm663KpWLsWUyOLZJ6tljlJomPn88io15IoAAOIhhLNiZIwIrIpIUppoMjWTCGe_tHWJMWPr4eic58AFiNoXatl7bIjnUmbW37QD37xLb7e69_0gM7_seTpW2hLMJVEX7zSS-n_pHu88BV0_FYlLZ6i6QIpn5tAZk2JoEWBRSF5v78C_tc1G58zNpE2LUo6NUx6oS_0KR8.M2gCbZpcNZNGOr0m0QcqPBHZoMMMFC6WQ9-uhBL4YsA&dib_tag=se&keywords=dremel+saw+kit&qid=1749174908&sprefix=dremel+saw+kit%2Caps%2C173&sr=8-3-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/Blades-Cutting-Plastic-Aluminum-Screwdriver/dp/B0BLSM8Y6Y/ref=sr_1_3_sspa?crid=1A1G1RLJ3JZBN&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.u5Iwkp0qD9SdlmWog31fExVNmjXU1OdGnGE9Vv-81J1TaB8riA3fao9UJPRM7bpiw8LEOA1n2MRj8RB54idEudopuOloLIt23Mm663KpWLsWUyOLZJ6tljlJomPn88io15IoAAOIhhLNiZIwIrIpIUppoMjWTCGe_tHWJMWPr4eic58AFiNoXatl7bIjnUmbW37QD37xLb7e69_0gM7_seTpW2hLMJVEX7zSS-n_pHu88BV0_FYlLZ6i6QIpn5tAZk2JoEWBRSF5v78C_tc1G58zNpE2LUo6NUx6oS_0KR8.M2gCbZpcNZNGOr0m0QcqPBHZoMMMFC6WQ9-uhBL4YsA&dib_tag=se&keywords=dremel+saw+kit&qid=1749174908&sprefix=dremel+saw+kit%2Caps%2C173&sr=8-3-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1)
I made my initial cuts as indicated with the red lines in the first pic below.
So the "gun-metal grey" part of the F3, where I made the cuts, is actually metal (I thought it was plastic). The black part of the F3 is plastic. I've used these little dremel saws before and knew that (depending on what you're cutting) it's not as straight forward and easy as you think: the saw teeth can catch and jerk around pretty easily. Holding the F3 with one hand and sawing with the other is doable but not ideal.
I ended up carefully clamping down the F3 using a clamp with rubber feet, BUT there's no great place to clamp the F3 down as I didn't want to put a bunch of force on the screen/buttons. So I settled on (akwardly) clamping down on the gun-metal grey parts I was cutting into and the screen itself, but as gently as possible. This allowed me to hold the dremel with 2 hands and secure it so it wasn't jerking around when the teeth catch while grinding into the metal.
I STARTED the cuts with the saw blade cutting into the metal the "smooth" way; in other words the sharp teeth of the blade were not directly biting into the metal, as it was catching too much when I did it the "sharp" way. This allowed me to get a decent groove/cut going, then I switched positions to make the majority of the cut the "sharp" way. Haha I hope this makes sense, please comment if this is confusing and I will attempt to clarify. I think a drill with faster speeds would probably allow less catching, but I only have a huge akward electric drill and I preferred the control of the smaller dremel.
You have to cut pretty deep to get the metal arms separated. I definitely cut down into the black plastic that's underneath the metal arms. Once I made all the cuts, I was hoping the connected arms would just slide off downward pretty easily, but it took a little finagling and prying, fortunately it wasn't terribly difficult. It's possible you could make the cuts a little lower down (indicated by the YELLOW line in the first pic) and they'll slide off a little easier, BUT you'll be left with a little more bulk at the top. You could just sand it down tho, keep in mind it's metal and not plastic.
Then once I finagled the arms off (see pics of them below), I just used a dremel grinding wheel to smooth everything over. Doesn't look great up close, but it's much slimmer and it's always in a bag or my pocket anyway.
While performing this "operation", I was concerned about all the vibrations I was creating from cutting and grinding into the metal. You have to apply some force to make the cuts, and it certainly was rattling the unit. Clamping down on it (to hold it in place), partially on the screen (!) was also concerning and I was definitely holding my breath when I turned it on for the first time. But lo and behold, I have taped a good 30+ shows with this unit since, and no problems!
Sorry for the detailed descriptions, but I know many are interested in this mod for stealthing purposes and I wanted to document the process. Hopefully people can take this and perhaps improve the method even further. Thanks to eman for being the first (I think) to try this and posting here (I believe his posts and pics are somewhere in this thread).
After stealthing with these pre and post mod, I definitely feel like it was worth it. Please proceed with caution though, it was not as cut and dry as I thought it was going to be.
I also got a TINY shoulder strap bag from Walmart (like 6 x 8 inches, see pics below) that I use for open taping when I don't wanna lug a bunch of crap around. I've clamped to some great FOB spots, strapped this tiny bag to the clamp/post and made some killer recordings this way. The battery in the pics is Miady 5000mAh I got off Amazon. Great batts, I've gotten 10+ hours so far with room to go.
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Dang, you said you were going to do that after my post. That's more stealthy than my mod.
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Ah yes it looks like you took the bars off the bottom and sanded it down smooth. That still removes quite a bit of bulk and leaves some extra protection. It's also less intensive, so maybe people can start with that mod and see how it works.
Either way these F3's are getting cheaper, especially if you wait for a sale. I hate supporting Amazon, but I think their Prime days are coming up if you don't want to wait for Black Friday. Usually Sweetwater and BH all match each other when there's a sale so check their sites as well.
Getting a 2nd F3 is nice because you can always use it as a mono XLR soundboard recorder, I always stash it in the car with a 3ft. XLR cable in case something like that pops up.
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Yeah I used a hacksaw and cut off flush with the bottom. I left the rails on since they came off anyway with the cut. The metal is quite hard.
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The best way to do this is with a milling machine. I have been meaning to and never have time. Very nice work.
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(https://tvmedia.ign.com/tv/image/article/108/1081362/south-park-20100329083143148_640w_1270130404.jpg?fit=bounds&width=1280&height=720)
What I think when I read about you cutting up your decks.
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haha it was definitely nerve wracking. but that's why I waited until I got the 2nd one. Eman actually completely dissasembled his, which is very very difficult to do, so props to him because that showed us where to make the cuts to get all the legs off.
Yes mepaca, that metal is very hard. I'm curious if it's steel or aluminum, although I'm guessing steel because the 2 leg/bracket things that I removed are actually quite heavy in the hand.
I wish I had access to a milling machine, as that's what my brother in law suggested. Please don't hesitate to update us on your findings if you ever try this. While I imagine we'll eventually get some more small stereo decks that surpass the F3, it is for now my go-to recorder in terms of sound and reliability and I'd love to keep a few around for different scenarios.
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How many of you friends have the bluetooth adapter for the f3? Do you find it beneficial and to offer anything helpful?
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How many of you friends have the bluetooth adapter for the f3? Do you find it beneficial and to offer anything helpful?
It disconnects when out of range, so it's only useful if you will keep remote control near it all the time.
It also disconnects from my iPhone Pro Max 13 randomly, and you can't re-connect it without stopping record.
Zoom really should be embarrassed about this...
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How many of you friends have the bluetooth adapter for the f3? Do you find it beneficial and to offer anything helpful?
It disconnects when out of range, so it's only useful if you will keep remote control near it all the time.
It also disconnects from my iPhone Pro Max 13 randomly, and you can't re-connect it without stopping record.
Zoom really should be embarrassed about this...
My Android experience is similar. I removed it and do not use the adapter anymore.
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How many of you friends have the bluetooth adapter for the f3? Do you find it beneficial and to offer anything helpful?
It disconnects when out of range, so it's only useful if you will keep remote control near it all the time.
It also disconnects from my iPhone Pro Max 13 randomly, and you can't re-connect it without stopping record.
Zoom really should be embarrassed about this...
Actually, it'll disconnect if you swipe out of the app. I've had zero issues with it if you don't do that.
ADDED FOR CLARITY: iOS user on iPhone 12 and 15.
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How many of you friends have the bluetooth adapter for the f3? Do you find it beneficial and to offer anything helpful?
It disconnects when out of range, so it's only useful if you will keep remote control near it all the time.
It also disconnects from my iPhone Pro Max 13 randomly, and you can't re-connect it without stopping record.
Zoom really should be embarrassed about this...
Actually, it'll disconnect if you swipe out of the app. I've had zero issues with it if you don't do that.
Same, I have never had mine disconnect unless I shut the app down. When using with S22 ultra.
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Just had tge app crap out on me which led to me screwing up a recording. Not doing that again.
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The menu is pretty simple on this, but is there a list posted of preferred settings? I've been wading thru the pages and can't seem to find one.
There's a setting for mono vs stereo. The nomenclature can be confusing. Mono doesn't combine both inputs to save to a single recording. Mono still records each track into independent files, so you can recreate a stereo mix later. (It's easy enough to split a stereo track or join two mono tracks in your DAW, but my current preference is two mono tracks.) I think it changes the playback in your headphones, so it's not totally useless. Test record both, load the output of both into a DAW, find your own preference. I prefer recording in stereo and do exactly this with the F3 set to mono.
A lot of mics step down phantom voltage, so you could try +24 if you use a condensor and check if the noise floor doesn't change. This might extend battery life a little. If I have USB power, I just run it at 48 because it's the spec.
I turn off the backlight so it doesn't annoy others or draw attention while recording.
Line level becomes important if you connect to a camera. I've always just saved to SD card and merged video with audio later.
If pre-record is at all important to you (a band starts playing without warning after a break, as some are known to do) having 3 extra seconds by keeping the sampling rate at 48 kHz gives you more time to capture the full intro. I keep it at 96 unless I need more recording time. It can't hurt but might help. :shrug:
I keep "remaining time", since it's more valuable to know how much time is left on the storage than to know how long ago Record was pressed. (The other might be more useful if you heard something cool and want to jump to it right away so you look at the time when that cool thing happened. It's certainly a preference thing...)
32-float for sure.
I leave it on PC/mac even when connecting to a smartphone because my phone provides enough current to run the F3 via USB.
So, my current settings as a list:
- Recording: Filename "date", sample rate "96", format "mono", prerecord "on", sound marker "off", counter "remaining time"
- Output: HP alert "-20", line "+4, limiter off no delay"
- USB I/F: PC, linear (works more generally with Linux), loopback "off", mono mix "on" (I use a single-ear headphone while recording instrument rehearsals), monitor "on"
- System: date "YYMMDD" (better for sorting), LCD "off, contrast 3", power "Lithium, 10 minute auto-off", timecode (dunno, not a professional video guy)
- Source: "MIC Phantom, 24V", HPF "off", invert "off", delay "0"
- Etc: waveform usually between 1 and 8 but it doesn't matter except during in-device monitoring/playback, HP usually 70 to 80 (lower when direct into IEMs), always on HOLD unless otherwise necessary
On the HPF point, use your judgment. Generally, off is preferred for live music.
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The menu is pretty simple on this, but is there a list posted of preferred settings? I've been wading thru the pages and can't seem to find one.
- Recording: Filename "date", sample rate "96", format "mono", prerecord "on", sound marker "off", counter "remaining time"
- Output: HP alert "-20", line "+4, limiter off no delay"
- USB I/F: PC, linear (works more generally with Linux), loopback "off", mono mix "on" (I use a single-ear headphone while recording instrument rehearsals), monitor "on"
- System: date "YYMMDD" (better for sorting), LCD "off, contrast 3", power "Lithium, 10 minute auto-off", timecode (dunno, not a professional video guy)
- Mic: source "48 phantom", HPF "50 Hz", invert "off", delay "0"
- Etc: waveform usually between 1 and 8, HP usually 70 to 80 (lower when direct into IEMs), always on HOLD unless otherwise necessary
TURN OFF YOUR HPF!
Recording music? You want to capture low bass, and there are lots of fundamentals below 50 Hz.
Low E on a 4-string bass is 41 Hz; I think you will want that.
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The menu is pretty simple on this, but is there a list posted of preferred settings? I've been wading thru the pages and can't seem to find one.
- Recording: Filename "date", sample rate "96", format "mono", prerecord "on", sound marker "off", counter "remaining time"
- Output: HP alert "-20", line "+4, limiter off no delay"
- USB I/F: PC, linear (works more generally with Linux), loopback "off", mono mix "on" (I use a single-ear headphone while recording instrument rehearsals), monitor "on"
- System: date "YYMMDD" (better for sorting), LCD "off, contrast 3", power "Lithium, 10 minute auto-off", timecode (dunno, not a professional video guy)
- Mic: source "48 phantom", HPF "50 Hz", invert "off", delay "0"
- Etc: waveform usually between 1 and 8, HP usually 70 to 80 (lower when direct into IEMs), always on HOLD unless otherwise necessary
TURN OFF YOUR HPF!
Recording music? You want to capture low bass, and there are lots of fundamentals below 50 Hz.
Low E on a 4-string bass is 41 Hz; I think you will want that.
Great list and agree with morst in turning off HPF. I'd rather record all frequencies and roll it off in post. For example, I find the KK184's a touch bass heavy but this can be fixed easily and they sound amazing.
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True that it's easier to trim away noise in post than to add back signal.
The 50 Hz HPF was a tradeoff on my last recording due to expecting wind noise on the figure 8, and I still needed to add a bass notch because the kick drum carried through strongly.
Indoors? Omni? Both, always unfiltered.
So, if I can edit my post, general recommendation is the LPF HPF built into the mic @ 20-ish.
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True that it's easier to trim away noise in post than to add back signal.
The 50 Hz HPF was a tradeoff on my last recording due to expecting wind noise on the figure 8, and I still needed to add a bass notch because the kick drum carried through strongly.
Indoors? Omni? Both, always unfiltered.
So, if I can edit my post, general recommendation is the LPF built into the mic @ 20-ish.
You certainly can, (and you have!)
My apologies if I came across as heavy handed there.
Very cool to see the list laid out like this.
Uh, is that a typo and you mean HPF though? Is there a 20 kHz Low pass I should know about? Would defeat the point of recording at 96k..
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Is there a 20 kHz Low pass I should know about? Would defeat the point of recording at 96k..
:facepalm:
3 toddlers, please send sleep!