Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: scoper on January 19, 2006, 11:19:36 AM
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Just found this page at SoundProfessionals:
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/ED-R-09
Looks like Edirol is coming out with a product to compete with the MicroTrack
From the page:
Introducing the latest addition to Edirol's red-hot portable recorder lineup: the R-09. Building on the success of the R-1, the R-09 takes many of the most desired features — 24-bit uncompressed recording and a built-in stereo mic — and shrinks it all down into a more streamlined, stylish, and affordable package.
* 24-bit/48kHz (or 44.1kHz) uncompressed recording
* Up to 320kbps MP3 playback and recording
* Records to SD card (64MB card included)
* High-grade stereo condenser microphone built in
* Mic and Line audio inputs; USB I/O
* Easy operation, user-friendly graphic display
* Ultra portable, half the size of the R-1
* Long battery life
More Info
Crystal-Clear Capture
It’s ultra small and looks like a gadget, but make no mistake — the R-09 is a serious, top-quality professional recorder with time-stamp capability. Capture source material at a crystal-clean 24-bit resolution with your choice of 44.1 or 48kHz sample rates. Record and play back in MP3 format as well (up to 320kbps). Once recorded, files can be monitored through the R-09’s headphone jack and/or exported to a computer via USB.
Microphone Included
To record audio into the R-09, there’s no extra gear to buy or no cables to connect. A quality stereo microphone is built right into the unit, complete with a dedicated input control, mono/stereo selector, low-cut filter, and gain boost. Just point and record! The R-09 also offers a mic input.
Sweetening
The R-09 is more affordable than its predecessor, the R-1. One reason the R-1 carries a heavier price tag is because of its well-stocked lineup of internal effects. The R-09 isn’t devoid of effects, however. It contains the world’s most-requested/desired effect: reverb. Whether you’re listening to WAV or MP3 files, you can route the R-09’s playback through its internal reverb processor, immersing it in lush, user-controllable ambience.
More Than Music
The R-09 is perfect for recording live music events, recitals, and rehearsals. It’s also handy as a songwriter’s sketchpad, ensuring that no moment of inspiration is lost. But the R-09 has many valuable uses outside of the music world as well. Students can use it to record lectures. Broadcasters and journalists can throw away their antiquated cassette recorders and use the R-09 for in-the-field interviews — the audio-capturing applications are endless.
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Here we go again...
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http://www.edirol.net/products/en/R-09/
It's important to note that there is a digital output, but NOT a digital input.
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If this thing had digital in, it would kill off the Microtrack, and would be a sweeping success. R1 has been a solid box for many here. But, "gasp", neither have digi-in. :-\
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usb in
would it take the digisignal that way from a ua5..?
doubt it, but it might be possible...
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Looks like it takes SD cards, not flash. That's my show-stopper right there. End of story.
No mention of support for > 2GB.
I like that it takes AA.
i'm sure that means just what it means in the r1 documentation: you can use larger cards, it just won't write more than 2gb in any given session.
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Looks like it takes SD cards, not flash. That's my show-stopper right there. End of story.
No mention of support for > 2GB.
I like that it takes AA.
What are SD cards? Smartmedia?
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Secure Digital.
just another flavor of compact flash.
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From the photo gallery on the edirol page those switches on the back of the unit look like an obvious nod to the M-1, as well as the D100 style record/play/cue buttons on the front. Looks like Edirol has moved this unit closer to the Pro-Audio market(and thereby the Taper Market) instead of the Guitar musician's market (what with the effects heavy R-1). Of course, still no digi-in. I assume the reason even Edirol hasn't solved this is because it would ruin the price point. Otherwise, who knows.
Unit is gonna run on SD instead of flash, which should equal the same media card cost (maybe a little cheaper). However, that's one more type of media to start using.
They're listing the mics as "high-grade", not sure if that has solved the noise issues with the R-1's mics (although they are very decent mics on their own).
Still running on batteries, which is great news.
The inputs are on the top of the unit instead of coming out the bottom like the MT or coming off the side like the R-1. Personally, I see that as a minor ergonomic plus. You really could slip this one in your shirt pocket and be able to glance down at the screen to check levels.
I really don't think the USB is possible for digi-in, because from the picture you have to have the battery door open to access it. Besides any issue of it even being possible to go digi-in on USB, the batteries would be falling out. Doesn't seem at all likely that they would have designed it that way.
Still listing the card maximum at 2GB instead of 4, which I assume hints that the file splitting option is still a no go. However, since they did eventually start listing that the R-1 could accept 4GB, I wonder if this unit will have a strict 2GB limit.
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Thanks sleepypedro. I just looked them up on eBay. These cards seem to sell a little cheaper than Compact Flash. Anybody?
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By the way, anyone going to NAMM this weekend?
I'm sure this will be in the Edirol booth.
Perhaps we can load someone up with questions to grill the reps with... ;)
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Honestly, I don't think the lack of the digi-in is a big deal for me. I run the R-1 now and it's internal ADC is fabulous.. I would assume this won't change with the R-09. To me, however, this unit provides no major upgrades to the R-1 other than being smaller, and being able to do 48khz sample rate (which isn't a big deal to me). Having to use SD cards is sort of a pain, and I don't even know if you can get 4gb SD cards yet.... anyone?
EDIT: now I see that you can easily get 4gb SD's... well that's not a huge problem then. but for those of us already owning R-1's, I'm not sure if it would be worth it to move to this unit.
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By the way, anyone going to NAMM this weekend?
I'm sure this will be in the Edirol booth.
Perhaps we can load someone up with questions to grill the reps with... ;)
It would nice if someone brought a pair of mics and a preamp and gave it a test run, right there in the booth. No that would be the move. :)
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Honestly, I don't think the lack of the digi-in is a big deal for me. I run the R-1 now and it's internal ADC is fabulous.. I would assume this won't change with the R-09. To me, however, this unit provides no major upgrades to the R-1 other than being smaller, and being able to do 48khz sample rate (which isn't a big deal to me). Having to use SD cards is sort of a pain, and I don't even know if you can get 4gb SD cards yet.... anyone?
Yes, the 4gb SDs are on eBay for just under $200.00
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By the way, anyone going to NAMM this weekend?
I'm sure this will be in the Edirol booth.
Perhaps we can load someone up with questions to grill the reps with... ;)
It would nice if someone brought a pair of mics and a preamp and gave it a test run, right there in the booth. No that would be the move. :)
Great idea. However, if anyone does try this, you'll have to stealth in because NAMM is strict about no outside product being brought into the show.
EDIT: That is, you'd have to stealth the gear INTO the show. The Exhibitors are usually cool about letting you interface with their gear if you've already got it inside already. Just be sure to also stealth your gear out of the show too. They will stop you and you may run into some serious problems of theft accusation.
Unless of course this thing is under glass like the MT was at some of the trade shows, and then it's a moot point even trying.
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i use sd cards in my pda rig to record. they are sweet - not much bigger than a postage stamp. 2 gigs get you just over 3 hours @ 16/48...
2 gig and one gig cards have come down dramatically in price (esp. compared to the price i paid for my first 2gig sd card close to a year ago - which was then confiscated by the manager of a band that is supposed to be open taping, but i digress...)
sd is good...
i still dont see anything smaller than my pda rig, which accepts digi in, and does 24/44.1,48, and 96.
(not being a prick, but some of you folks might wanna look into going that route)...
plus when using live2496, you can record directly to flac, which saves you hella disc space...
just talking out loud. i will see if i can get into the show this year. i know ledsepzoso is going - shoot him an email/pm. the show starts today.
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EDIT: now I see that you can easily get 4gb SD's... well that's not a huge problem then. but for those of us already owning R-1's, I'm not sure if it would be worth it to move to this unit.
I like it because its smaller than a JB3 and the R1. I considered moving to the R1. But this puppy is smaller and has a nicer layout as far as buttons and connections. I'm not too concerned about 24 bit yet, but having that ability is nice. Regardless of the 2 gig limit, its an improvement over the R1 by size alone. I think I'm gonna jump on one of these.
Assuming it has the same efficient ADC as the R1, I wonder how it would do running a V2 in front of it.
Anybody running a V2 in front of their R1?
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I really don't think the USB is possible for digi-in, because from the picture you have to have the battery door open to access it. Besides any issue of it even being possible to go digi-in on USB, the batteries would be falling out. Doesn't seem at all likely that they would have designed it that way.
I bet you can connect to USB and change cards without opening the batt door. If you look closely at the photo of the bottom http://www.soundprofessionals.com/mas_assets/full/ED-R-09-G.jpg (http://www.soundprofessionals.com/mas_assets/full/ED-R-09-G.jpg) there seem to be cutouts for those ports on the door (door is folded forward towards the camera POV to show the battery access in the photo).
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usb in
would it take the digisignal that way from a ua5..?
doubt it, but it might be possible...
Yikes!!! What a thought - what if the next killer recording device worked with a USB feed? - then everyone would have to have thier UA-5s un-digi-modded!!!
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No, sadly, that won't happen. Specific software would be required to be configured so the 2 devices can communicate. The UA5's basic software is to make it talk to any windows based PC/laptop, for example. Lord knows what software is running on the R09. So, I think that's a long way off. But, good idea. ;)
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I find it to be absolutely stupid for any manufacturer to not include digital inputs in their products. The R1, the 660 and the list seems to be growing.
What options are there in the marketplace for a small hand held recorder with digital in/outs with the ability to record 24bit. Not many its looking like. Obviously these manufactures are trying to rush products into the marketplace without even the thought of looking at the shortcomings and problems of their competitors.
No love......
EDIT: I forgot to even mention that piece of shit new Sony recorder. .
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I find it to be absolutely stupid for any manufacturer to not include digital inputs in their products. The R1, the 660 and the list seems to be growing.
What options are there in the marketplace for a small hand held recorder with digital in/outs with the ability to record 24bit. Not many its looking like. Obviously these manufactures are trying to rush products into the marketplace without even the thought of looking at the shortcomings and problems of their competitors.
No love......
EDIT: I forgot to even mention that piece of shit new Sony recorder. .
Absence of dig-in seems totally understandable in todays copyright sensitive world...
And really - isnt SPDIF going the way of the doh-doh bird???...it's really not used much with pro gear - and increasingly less with the advent of gear with computer based interfaces...(USB, Firewire...)
I dont think tapers represent a large enough niche for any business to care what we want...
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No, sadly, that won't happen. Specific software would be required to be configured so the 2 devices can communicate. The UA5's basic software is to make it talk to any windows based PC/laptop, for example. Lord knows what software is running on the R09. So, I think that's a long way off. But, good idea. ;)
Perhaps - does the UA5 software (on the PC) control the UA5 in any way??? (like the UA-25)???...or does it just capture signal from the USB? Both devices are made by Edriol - seems completely feasible that they would work together...if I were a customer I would demand it!!! "What Edriol? - all your products are incompatible???"
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theoretically, though - you would think that the same company that made both boxes (ua5 and r-09) to have the same digital i/o interface would be able to make them talk to eachother...
agreed that tapers dont make a big market, but what else would you use this thing for..?
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theoretically, though - you would think that the same company that made both boxes (ua5 and r-09) to have the same digital i/o interface would be able to make them talk to eachother...
agreed that tapers dont make a big market, but what else would you use this thing for..?
THe specs say -
"USB 1.1/2.0 mass storage device class compatible" - that must mean something - spec-wise..."
Edriol is probably eyeing the broadcast journalism market, amatuer musicians and ipod users...
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Damn, I was just about to order a MT from SP's when I saw this baby. Decisions, decisions.....
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Another thing I just noticed from the pics is that the R-09 has a peak indicator on the front, which will be very welcome improvement over the R-1's lack of one. Can't make out whether or not the side of the unit has switches or if they're input and headphone levels like the R-1 has.
I'm hoping they're dials, instead of having to access the input level via a menu a la the MT.
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having to access the input level via a menu a la the MT.
that suxxx
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theoretically, though - you would think that the same company that made both boxes (ua5 and r-09) to have the same digital i/o interface would be able to make them talk to eachother...
agreed that tapers dont make a big market, but what else would you use this thing for..?
Maybe they're saying the adc in both units are similar in quality so there's no need for the ua5, just run mic in or line in directly to the recorder's adc.
I also want to add, I love the addition in this unit of the left and right channel meters, the R1 only shows you a mono level. Plus a 4-line display.
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I'm sure I'll get one for a review, and I'll run everything I can into this to see how its ADC sounds.
Could be my "stealth deck". but i'd hate tohave to buck up for yet another form of flash card. Luckily my camera takes SD, and iv'e got a 1g card all ready. add a 2gb, and I'd have enough for opening acts + the main show of most concerts I see.
digital in would have been great...but for what it is, I'm sure it will be ok. Edirols A/Ds have always been surprisingly good, given the price of their products.
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Average price for a new R-1 on the 'net is $420.00 + free shipping. Soundprofessionals is selling the R-09 for $398.00 +$9.00 shipping. ??? In Edirol's own literarture, it states that the R-09 is supposed to be more "affordable" than the R-1. $13.00 is more affordable? WTF! :o
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Hello:
Well, technically, nobody is supposed to advertize the R-1 for less than $439......but some resellers violate the MAP policy. So, as far as Edirol is concerned, it's a $40 drop in price.
Hope this helps
Chris Carfagno
The Sound Professionals, Inc
www.soundprofessionals.com
800-213-3021
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Thanks Chris! Hmmm, its a shame. If they meant more affordable, I would think the price drop would be at least $100 and put it more on par with the Microtrack price.
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Hello:
Actually, it is exactly the same price as the Microtrack now......they are both MAP'd at $399.00
Chris
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I find it to be absolutely stupid for any manufacturer to not include digital inputs in their products. The R1, the 660 and the list seems to be growing.
What options are there in the marketplace for a small hand held recorder with digital in/outs with the ability to record 24bit. Not many its looking like. Obviously these manufactures are trying to rush products into the marketplace without even the thought of looking at the shortcomings and problems of their competitors.
No love......
EDIT: I forgot to even mention that piece of shit new Sony recorder. .
Absence of dig-in seems totally understandable in todays copyright sensitive world...
And really - isnt SPDIF going the way of the doh-doh bird???...it's really not used much with pro gear - and increasingly less with the advent of gear with computer based interfaces...(USB, Firewire...)
I dont think tapers represent a large enough niche for any business to care what we want...
I always thought it was a licensing thing that Edirol didn't want to pay Sony/Phillips to use their digi interface but then Sony didn't even put it on their recorder opting for an optical mini output. They all obviously think there is a market with the built in mic type device.
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we need to realize that the "taper geek" market is not on the forefront of designers minds when they dream this shit up.
for every one of us, there are 500 hack musicians who want to record themselves from the coffee table. and that is where products like these come from.
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FWIW, I got my R-1 for $380 shipped brand new from an online retailer where you could negotiate a price online with them.
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we need to realize that the "taper geek" market is not on the forefront of designers minds when they dream this shit up.
for every one of us, there are 500 hack musicians who want to record themselves from the coffee table. and that is where products like these come from.
I printed this out, trimmed it, then framed it. ;D
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So, after looking at the pictures on the Edirol sight more closely, it appears that the unit is using up and down "buttons" instead of the manual "dial" that the R-1 has to control the input level.
And, to quote Doug Oade from his board regarding this similar feature on the Microtrack....
"Sadly this thing (the Microtrack) uses a digital level control that probably cannot be bypassed or improved. Fine for MP3 users or ENG but not so great for tapers or audiophiles. Think JB3/MD analog input sound quality. Still, the promise of this thing is as a non resampling 24 bit storage device for the Grace V3, Apogee MiniMe or MOD UA5. Until we see Microphone Preamps with A/D converters that include CF slots, something like this unit is our best hope for low cost storage.
Let us all hope they managed to include a good quality 24 bit S/PDIF input"
The difference here is that the new R-09 doesn't have a digital input in, so it won't be able to be used as a bit bucket like the MT. So this is an obvious handicap right off the bat, regardless of whether or not you run a preamp in front.
So, if this is the case, at least it's better to know conclusively before the thing even comes out. Much better than waiting months and months and months and spending all that money first. Unless of course, I'm wrong on my technology-facts here....
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So unless I'm missing something, here's the pros list of the R-09 against the MT:
R-09 Pros:
- Built-in mics (does anyone here care?)
- Cleaner preamp (?)
- More solid build (?)
- Low-cut filter
- Reverb
- Replaceable batteries (2 AAs)
- Digital output (not really necessary with USB file transfer)
- OLED screen (but only 2 lines)
MT Pros:
- Digital in
- 24/96 vs 24/48
- Phantom power (30V's better than nothing)
- 2 1/4-inch TRS inputs
- Monitor while recording (the R-09 specs imply that you can only monitor after recording)
- Supports > 2GB cards (the R-09 specs say that it only supports up to 2GB SD cards)
- Larger screen (looks like twice the height of the R-09...4 lines vs. 2)
I guess it depends on your application, but I'll still stick with the MT for now.
Craig
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The inputs are on the top of the unit instead of coming out the bottom like the MT or coming off the side like the R-1. Personally, I see that as a minor ergonomic plus. You really could slip this one in your shirt pocket and be able to glance down at the screen to check levels.
MT inputs are on the top, except for S/PDIF. The R-09's headphone jack is on the side (vs. the top for the MT), which isn't so ergonomic if you're trying to monitor (although, as noted in my previous post, it looks like the R-09 doesn't let you monitor).
Don't get me wrong, either...I'll be the first one in line to buy the product that bests the MT in the same form factor. I just don't see the R-09 as being that product.
Craig
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Hello:
Actually, it is exactly the same price as the Microtrack now......they are both MAP'd at $399.00
Chris
A ton of our members picked up the Microtrack for $299 at the Guitar Center, FYI.
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What is troubling with the Sound Professional ad is the recommended accessories...spefically the external record level meter...hmm no onboard record level indication?
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What is troubling with the Sound Professional ad is the recommended accessories...spefically the external record level meter...hmm no onboard record level indication?
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/mas_assets/full/ED-R-09-B.jpg
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That thing looks like a electric razor!
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Hmm... i was all excited about getting a MT, i thought it would go well with my CMC-8s which really suck ass with the JB3 (i wish someone could tell me why, as no one hs problems with them when going into a D8.... has to do with impedence?), at least I could do good old phantom power. But now, this little guy.... that would be nice. I just with there were more specs on this guy... Time to play the waiting game AGAIN.
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Hello:
I don't doubt that some retailers sell it for less than the MAP, I was just comparing apples with apples (MAP to MAP).
Chris
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No digi-in and no balanced inputs (no phantom either?) seem to be two pretty bad things to me?
Maybe this is the ultimate stealth machine if the pre and a/d turn out to be good, but I'm not sure it'll be much more than that without these basic inputs?
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No digi-in and no balanced inputs (no phantom either?) seem to be two pretty bad things to me?
if they ever build a box this size and price point with a decent pre, I will be shocked...I wouldnt count on it happening any time soon...as for digi in...the primary users of this box are not going to require that as a feature...
I can understand somes reluctance to use the A/D in units like this, because it is tough to believe that it can be on par with a $$$ box that does it...and you know what it may not be...but you shouldnt let that decision be made based on preconceived notions...
Honestly, I think the A/D that is built into the R1 is top notch....really, really quality tapes made with that setup.
as always, judging things on specs is a really bad idea...I would suggest listening to one...
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No digi-in and no balanced inputs (no phantom either?) seem to be two pretty bad things to me?
Maybe this is the ultimate stealth machine if the pre and a/d turn out to be good, but I'm not sure it'll be much more than that without these basic inputs?
I'd run this with an Mp2 or Sonosax anyway. If the A/D is as good as the R1, it will be a winner for me. ;)
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No digi-in and no balanced inputs (no phantom either?) seem to be two pretty bad things to me?
Maybe this is the ultimate stealth machine if the pre and a/d turn out to be good, but I'm not sure it'll be much more than that without these basic inputs?
I'd run this with an Mp2 or Sonosax anyway. If the A/D is as good as the R1, it will be a winner for me. ;)
The other thing is if you run electret mics, you don't need phantom power. Build a combination three-wire battery box + 20dB gain preamp and you're set. I used this (AKG CK93 + batt box/preamp) into a MD this week. I could easily use an R1/R09 instead and benefit from the better ADC.
Richard
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As a consumer first and engineer second, I have to point out that if this (or any of its competition) was designed properly the conversation we'd be having wouldn't be, "well, if I run it with my ______ it will be fine for me," but rather, "cool, now I can get rid of my _______."
How sad that we've been so well trained to compromise.
Craig
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What is troubling with the Sound Professional ad is the recommended accessories...spefically the external record level meter...hmm no onboard record level indication?
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/mas_assets/full/ED-R-09-B.jpg
If you notice from that pic...the unit is in playback mode...still not 100% sure if the same meter also operates/displays during recording...probably does but not verified at this time with the available documentation
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What is troubling with the Sound Professional ad is the recommended accessories...spefically the external record level meter...hmm no onboard record level indication?
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/mas_assets/full/ED-R-09-B.jpg
If you notice from that pic...the unit is in playback mode...still not 100% sure if the same meter also operates/displays during recording...probably does but not verified at this time with the available documentation
It would be strange indeed to have meters only on during playback and not during recording. Unfortunately, this is precisely what the cheap iRiver iFP-7xx-8xx flash mp3 recorders do, presumeably because of the limited CPU power available while encoding. Oh dear, I hope not...
The good news is that I notice what seem to be clip/over indicators on the far right of the scales. Surely you wouldn't need clip indicators (they would never light) during playback? Also, the Peak light is a Good Thing.
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What is troubling with the Sound Professional ad is the recommended accessories...spefically the external record level meter...hmm no onboard record level indication?
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/mas_assets/full/ED-R-09-B.jpg
If you notice from that pic...the unit is in playback mode...still not 100% sure if the same meter also operates/displays during recording...probably does but not verified at this time with the available documentation
I wondered if that was a fake display screen - photoshoped in - like perhaps they havent finalised the layout...what kind of screen is that? Black and white LCD???
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I wondered if that was a fake display screen - photoshoped in - like perhaps they havent finalised the layout...what kind of screen is that? Black and white LCD???
OLED (Organic Light Emitting Diode) displays really look that good. One of my recorders has one, blue, not white, but still amazing to behold imho.
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My indecision on which flash based recording device to buy has increased with the announcement of this product. I'm guessing I won't be replacing my M1 until 2007.
a few +Ts
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My indecision on which flash based recording device to buy has increased with the announcement of this product. I'm guessing I won't be replacing my M1 until 2007.
a few +Ts
Couldn't agree more.
+T
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My bit bucket is working good (MT). I don't stealth with it. I use my V3 at 24/48.
I wouldn't buy one of these without some sort of digi-in. SPDIF or Optical.
If it will really only takes a 2gb card like it says, and not 2gb file, that would would mean swapping a card, not starting a file.
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So we have any contacts on this list who will receive an "early look" unit?
Then these people can report back to us what they find based on how "we" use these devices in the field?
Greg
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that would be me.
though, i'm not sure how early i'll get it. Edirol has had a bit of a change, and now all of these recording devices are now part of the Roland division and I have to establish a new contact.
i've got names and numbers, so i'll start calling today.
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that would be me.
Nick - thanks for the reply... being new to TS.com (not to taping), i am still learning "who is who" and "who knows what". Greg
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well, the first thing to know is that I know JACK.
so if you need to get in touch w/him..lmk
;-)
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well, the first thing to know is that I know JACK.
so if you need to get in touch w/him..lmk
;-)
Is this the Jack you speak of Nick? ;D
(http://www.jackinthebox.com/images/jacks_office/jackslist/jl_jack.gif)
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My indecision on which flash based recording device to buy has increased with the announcement of this product. I'm guessing I won't be replacing my M1 until 2007.
a few +Ts
lol. Indeed. I still plan on dumping my dat very soon, but what shall I buy... :-\
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If you know Jack, then you must know Jorma.....
ps: The R-09 looks sweet but I'm not sure if I want to part with my R-01 or MT just yet
Hey Nick let us know what you think when you get it, so I can put my name on Doug's list........ just in case a mod is in it's future..
Peace
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Hi All.... Just got back from NAMM myself... Had a chance to check this out briefly. It looks like a typial Edirol piece not quite sure why they didnt do digi in nor did their reps.
We placed a significant order at the show for these, but I get the feeling they will not hit the April 1st ship date. PM or email me for more details. We'll take preorders but no deposits this time as we dont want to get into a Microtrack situation if this takes till Xmas to arrive.
Personally I still see the Microtrack being a better choice. I had a long meeting with MAudio powers that be at NAMM and expressed the frustration we've all felt with firmware, etc. They were very receptive, but the proof will be in their action.
If anyone is looking for an R1 or R4 we still have a significant amount in stock that we would like to move. Email or PM me for special pricing.
Thanks,
Frank
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Hi All.... Just got back from NAMM myself... Had a chance to check this out briefly. It looks like a typial Edirol piece not quite sure why they didnt do digi in nor did their reps.
We placed a significant order at the show for these, but I get the feeling they will not hit the April 1st ship date. PM or email me for more details. We'll take preorders but no deposits this time as we dont want to get into a Microtrack situation if this takes till Xmas to arrive.
Personally I still see the Microtrack being a better choice. I had a long meeting with MAudio powers that be at NAMM and expressed the frustration we've all felt with firmware, etc. They were very receptive, but the proof will be in their action.
If anyone is looking for an R1 or R4 we still have a significant amount in stock that we would like to move. Email or PM me for special pricing.
Thanks,
Frank
Special pricing, nice! I'd say those that haven't tried the R-1 yet and are wondering about it, just take the plunge... a great device!
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I'm just so mad that I bought one at full retail price last week.. a day before I saw about the 09. ARGH! :banging head:
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I'm just so mad that I bought one at full retail price last week.. a day before I saw about the 09. ARGH! :banging head:
Don't be!
The R1 sounds awesome, and you'll be making quality recordings now - where people can only assume the R-09 will be of equal sonic quality. That is until the unit is in one of our hands in what? April... May... or June? There are a lot of shows between now and then...
dB-
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What comes to mind as an R1 owner:
Will Oade mods be available?
Will auto file splitting be a feature added with a firmware update?
Is the ADC of the same quality as the R1?
How easy is it to set levels accurately in a stealth situation?
Now, what tapers who aren't stealthing should consider:
No, 24/96 support and 2gb file limits (which means you're going to run into situations where you will lose a second or 2 during a long set)
No digital inputs (but if you don't own a V3 or digi-mod UA5 this doesn't matter)
Possible issues with metering accuracy
No idea on battery life as of yet
Now a couple other thoughts come to mind. Since the MT digi inputs don't even work yet, having a single 1/8" input is better than having to use an interconnect dongle to plug your signal into the recorder (lo-z 1/4" lines are unbalanced, just like 1/8" so there's no advantage to those on the MT). Those who are open taping and don't have a digi-mod UA5 or V3 may want to just go with the R4 instead of any of the other units out there. The ability to record at 24/96 to a HARD DISK and also supply power to 4 mics on BALANCED inputs kicks any of the other portable recorders asses (except for the 722/744 of course). Sure, the price of the R4 is a bit higher than the R1/MT/R9 but you don't have to purchase flash cards (at $200+ for 4gb) which brings any of the cheaper options up to around 500-700 depending on options. Also, with the R4 you don't need an external pre - so you can sell your V2/Minime/UA5/whatever and just use the internals and pay for the recorder with the pre. The only real downside for the R4 seems to be some issues with powering but I'm not sure how true that claim is since there are folks who run the units regularly. Being an R1 owner, I really don't see anything being better except for the R4 or 722 as far as compact field recorders go. If the R9 works and sounds as good as the R1 though, it would probably be a better buy than the R1 (and more stealthy also).
So, buy an R4 is you're open taping and want 24 bit recording but can't afford a 722. If you're stealthing and the ADC is comparable to the R1, sell your MT and buy the R9.
...that's some stream of thought so maybe it's a bit sloppy, sorry.
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Since the MT digi inputs don't even work yet
this is not true. I have neve used the analog inputs, only digital, and I've made many great 24 bit recordings. many other people have too.
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oh well thanks for the info then. i remember all the initial issues with the MT after it hit the market and thought that the digital input wasn't working properly yet. cool that it works then.
revised then...if you have a V3/Digimod UA5 and don't like the MT for recording you can get a laptop and stop worrying about file sizes, flash cards and battery life issues assosciated with the portable recorders. Really for around $800 you can set yourself up with a beast of a recording laptop - and my Oade R1+Flash Card totalled out at around $750 after shipping and everything. Realistically there's probably not that many venues where it's actually possible to stealth a UA5 or V3 easily anyway. If this little R9 turns out to be as good as the R1 though, I might pick one up to play with for a while. I really do think a laptop is the absolute best recording device if you can feed a digital signal though, especially if you want to do any multitrack stuff. The R9 looks promissing as a handy dandy 24-bit stealth unit so it'll be interesting to see where the tapers actually turn when the market has more options. Isn't it odd that nobody has even mentioned that they want to try the new Sony recorder? Looks like the market they had by the balls is gonna be giving them the finger for digital recording. :P
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Isn't it odd that nobody has even mentioned that they want to try the new Sony recorder? Looks like the market they had by the balls is gonna be giving them the finger for digital recording. :P
not at all...the "market" as defined by tapers is such a small blip on sony's radar screen it is irrelevant. The market for these products is journalism and film/tv, which I am guessing there is a market for their product
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i wasn't meaning to imply that the technology was being marketed for tapers, but as of 2 years ago nearly every serious type taper out there was relying on their trusty sony dat deck. now those same people are not even considering the new sony product, a fine example of how loyal consumers actually are. i think those new sony decks are overpriced and are more for reporters and students who want internal mics anyway. on a side note, i'd LOVE to see lectures from some of the physics classes at MIT start floating around the trading community. i've looked around for that sort of thing in the past but couldn't find any tapes in circulation. even recordings of some of the mind blowing physics convention lectures would be amazing to listen to. but enough of this....more about the R-09 now
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now those same people are not even considering the new sony product, a fine example of how loyal consumers actually are.
I dont think most on this board have any clue what people in those industries are considering....not a knock, but their needs are significantly different...
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very true. hobbyist level recording enthusiasts probably account for a fraction of a percentage of their total sales. luckily there are products on the market which are well suited for our needs. this r-09 looks to be another which should satisfy alot of folks around here at least. i can really give a flying fuck what the media are using to make their recordings with ... and we've all heard them on those 60 minutes style shows where sting operations are recorded and such...they really don't care about actual audio quality. it's really amazing how poor those tapes are and they are still used as solid evidence in court cases. they're usually so terrible you can't understand what's being said without a transcript. what i'm saying is that their needs are very very different from ours - we're perfectionists.
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I understand the importance of digi-in, for there are many people who will not part with their favorite preamp. Myself included. Also, noise would be lower than a 1/8 connection. But if the ADC is good on the R09, as the R1, then cleaning up any noise at the 1/8 connection is all that needs to be done. Doug Oade has done that with the R1. I assume he will do that with the R09. That's why I'd have no problem hooking up a V2, MP2, or Sonosax to the R09. I'm strongly considering getting this.
As for the Microtrack, reading all the problems people are having, none consistent but often varying, I don't find it reliable enough to even switch from my trusty JB3. With the R09, I'm hoping I can dump the Deneckes (2 boxes) and just run a MP2 (1box). With the R09 being less bulkier than the JB3, my future stealth rig will be even stealthier. Heck, all I care about right now is 16 bit. ;)
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I planned on buying a MT, but now.. this seems great for stealthing, but I'm interested to hear people's experiences first. Maybe I'm blind, but did it say anything about battery time?
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I planned on buying a MT, but now.. this seems great for stealthing, but I'm interested to hear people's experiences first. Maybe I'm blind, but did it say anything about battery time?
It runs on 2 AA batteries. Hopefully the R09 will take 2500 mah rechargeables, for they are a little longer than the 2100 mah. Bottomline: powering shouldn't be an issue with this unit.
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Ah that sounds great. Been reading so much about the battery time on the MT so I would probably have to buy an external battery for it, but with the R09 that seems redundant.
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I'm just so mad that I bought one at full retail price last week.. a day before I saw about the 09. ARGH! :banging head:
But what would you have done until April?
Seriously man, be happy with what you got. The R-1 is great! I don't think R-09 is really that much different to make a huge deal over.
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oh well thanks for the info then. i remember all the initial issues with the MT after it hit the market and thought that the digital input wasn't working properly yet. cool that it works then.
revised then...if you have a V3/Digimod UA5 and don't like the MT for recording you can get a laptop and stop worrying about file sizes, flash cards and battery life issues assosciated with the portable recorders.
How about battery life on the laptop, and bulk?
I have been running 24/48 SPDIF out of my V3 with about 90% success rate. I am still running a backup, though.
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it was my understanding that 1/4" inputs are always unbalanced since they're basically just a single wire connection and a ground. either way, the R-09 just has the 1/8" input (which is also unbalanced) but it should work fine as long as it's not noisy.
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it was my understanding that 1/4" inputs are always unbalanced since they're basically just a single wire connection and a ground.
The 1/4" inputs on the MT are TRS connections. Tip-Ring-Sleeve. Three connections, three wires, a balanced input.
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it was my understanding that 1/4" inputs are always unbalanced since they're basically just a single wire connection and a ground. either way, the R-09 just has the 1/8" input (which is also unbalanced) but it should work fine as long as it's not noisy.
1/4" can be either balanced or unbalanced....
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Since the MT digi inputs don't even work yet
this is not true. I have neve used the analog inputs, only digital, and I've made many great 24 bit recordings. many other people have too.
Exactly Jason, the digi in does work, in fact my MT has been running fine, so I don't know where evil is getting his "facts" from, just another hater ;)
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wow....stop hatin on me sucka! i guess i just haven't been keeping all up to date on the MT stuff since I don't own one :P
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Just got off the phone with Edirol/Roland and here is what I found out:
Balanced 1/8" Input = Yes
2gb SD Card = @ 21/2 Hours Recording (regardless of 24-Bit or 16-Bit according to them)
Monitor Recording Levels = YES!!!
ADC = Same As R1
Uses AA or AA mah rechargeables
Firmware updates are planned if there are any initial bugs and probable to allow 4gb SD card too
looks like i may pick one of these up...
Ryan in WA
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2gb SD Card = @ 21/2 Hours Recording (regardless of 24-Bit or 16-Bit according to them)
That's a pretty clear sign the person you spoke with had no idea what they were talking about, isn't it?
It's kind of like saying it doesn't matter whether you're eating double cheeseburgers or triple cheeseburgers, it's going to take you the same number of either before you're full.
I need to eat.
Craig
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2gb SD Card = @ 21/2 Hours Recording (regardless of 24-Bit or 16-Bit according to them)
That's a pretty clear sign the person you spoke with had no idea what they were talking about, isn't it?
Craig
yup.
However, this thing looks pretty sweet to me especially since I've been burning DVD-As since I got the R1. If I can record at 48khz, then its right into the Audio DVD Creator program without upsampling, and I can play them on any DVD player - not just ones that will play DVD-A.
My main criticism of the R-1 was that it was capped at 44.1khz....
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Just got off the phone with Edirol/Roland and here is what I found out:
Balanced 1/8" Input = Yes
2gb SD Card = @ 21/2 Hours Recording (regardless of 24-Bit or 16-Bit according to them)
Monitor Recording Levels = YES!!!
ADC = Same As R1
Uses AA or AA mah rechargeables
Firmware updates are planned if there are any initial bugs and probable to allow 4gb SD card too
looks like i may pick one of these up...
Ryan in WA
Hey Ryan welcome to taperssection
I've been pondering about getting one of these...
Alex in Salt Lake
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man!!! here i was with my hopes up, seeing that there were new posts in this thread, but it's not too much "new" information. doh! i'm jonesing for this device more than i was for the MicroTrack (before it came out).
assuming the R-09 and SD cards require roughly the same amount of space for formatting the memory card, then you'd get the following with a 2 GB SD card:
3 hours 8 minutes at 16-bit
2 hours 5 minutes at 24-bit
hopefully the unit will accept 4 GB SD cards out of the box, or with a quick firmware update. not that 16-bit is bad, but it's nice to have the option of recording at 24-bit without physically swapping out memory cards.
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whats the latest best estimate that anyone has heard for the release of these R09 units?
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April release
Below is a link for Edirol's demo at the NAMM06. Nice video. The R09 is the third selection down the page. In the demo, the rep says work has begun for this puppy to accept 4gb cards. Niceness.
http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2633#
This thing has the approximate thickness of a JB3, but the square shape makes it easier to slip into a pocket.
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...the rep says work has begun for this puppy to accept 4gb cards....
Anyone know if an 8gb SD card exists, I looked around and didnt see any.
It is nice to have an 8gb for festivals and such that I am using in my R1
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Another NAMM review
http://createdigitalmusic.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1130&Itemid=44
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The price for the R9 here in Sweden is set to roughly 400usd ex tax.
It is said to be shipping in April here.
That should give the europeans on the board an idea on what´s going on here on our side of the pond.
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Another NAMM review
http://createdigitalmusic.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1130&Itemid=44
in this review i can read that r09 provide phantom power!! it's this true?? because this change the rules!!
Phantom power: A controversial element of the MicroTrack was its inability to put out a full 48V phantom power for mics. Not a huge issue given the target market, but Edirol said they have true 48V phantom power on the R-09. That spec isn't on the Roland website, though, so the jury's still out.
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Another NAMM review
http://createdigitalmusic.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1130&Itemid=44
in this review i can read that r09 provide phantom power!! it's this true?? because this change the rules!!
Phantom power: A controversial element of the MicroTrack was its inability to put out a full 48V phantom power for mics. Not a huge issue given the target market, but Edirol said they have true 48V phantom power on the R-09. That spec isn't on the Roland website, though, so the jury's still out.
i watched one of the NAMM video reviews last night, and while he was breezing through the features, i could have sworn the guy said 'FIVE volts of phantom power'. i don't know anything that runs on 5v of power, so i either misheard the reviewer, the reviewer misspoke, or roland systems is on crack.
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the guy said 'FIVE volts of phantom power'. i don't know anything that runs on 5v of power, so i either misheard the reviewer, the reviewer misspoke, or roland systems is on crack.
That is a good thing. Most portible units use 3 volts of Phantom. Most electret condenser mics need a bias voltage between 1.5v and 12v. The closer you get to 12v the better your mics will sound (increased dynamic range, higher SPLs). A 5v PIP will be plenty to power many mics.
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I believe he misspoke. Like the R-1, this puppy will have the recommendation of running a preamp out in front. I think 5V is really external powering.
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+T for the link to that video, Spyder!
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I'm a lot less impressed after watching the video than I hoped I would be (although I do love that screen!)...the demo just made it even more glaringly obvious to me how many ways it falls short of the MT for everything that it did right. Is it that hard for someone to take a step forward in designing these things without taking two back???
Craig
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I'm a lot less impressed after watching the video than I hoped I would be (although I do love that screen!)...the demo just made it even more glaringly obvious to me how many ways it falls short of the MT for everything that it did right. Is it that hard for someone to take a step forward in designing these things without taking two back???
Craig
Could expand on your observation?
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I'm a lot less impressed after watching the video than I hoped I would be (although I do love that screen!)...the demo just made it even more glaringly obvious to me how many ways it falls short of the MT for everything that it did right. Is it that hard for someone to take a step forward in designing these things without taking two back???
Craig
Could expand on your observation?
yeah, to me, it looks like a total upgrade over my R-1, and I'm pretty enthused about it, as long as it can use 4gb cards. What's your issue with it?
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to me, the only real "drawbacks" i see with the R-09, thus far, are as follows:
1) no support for 4 GB (yet... though i'm sure they will come through with it)
2) because of the above, there's surely no auto-split feature yet (but perhaps it will be included with 4 GB support, via firmware update)
3) no digital input
as mentioned, i really think they will update the R-09 with some firmware so that 4 GB cards will be taken. even if they do not include an auto split, if the R-09 is as quick as the R-1 for stopping/starting a new file, it's only a couple of seconds of crowd noise lost. again, not a big deal to me. and for the third item, for those who don't run an ADC in front of the recorder, again not a big deal.
yes, it is a shame there's no digital input, but if the quality of the internal ADC is that of the R-1, i'll be quite satisfied.
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to me, the only real "drawbacks" i see with the R-09, thus far, are as follows:
1) no support for 4 GB (yet... though i'm sure they will come through with it)
2) because of the above, there's surely no auto-split feature yet (but perhaps it will be included with 4 GB support, via firmware update)
3) no digital input
as mentioned, i really think they will update the R-09 with some firmware so that 4 GB cards will be taken. even if they do not include an auto split, if the R-09 is as quick as the R-1 for stopping/starting a new file, it's only a couple of seconds of crowd noise lost. again, not a big deal to me. and for the third item, for those who don't run an ADC in front of the recorder, again not a big deal.
yes, it is a shame there's no digital input, but if the quality of the internal ADC is that of the R-1, i'll be quite satisfied.
This pretty much sums up my opinion exactly. +T Oh, and its 48khz, whereas the R-1 is only 44.1khz.
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I'm a lot less impressed after watching the video than I hoped I would be (although I do love that screen!)...the demo just made it even more glaringly obvious to me how many ways it falls short of the MT for everything that it did right. Is it that hard for someone to take a step forward in designing these things without taking two back???
Craig
Could expand on your observation?
yeah, to me, it looks like a total upgrade over my R-1, and I'm pretty enthused about it, as long as it can use 4gb cards. What's your issue with it?
Are you considering it a "total upgrade" merely for the fact that it's smaller and does 24/48 over the 24/44.1 capability of the R1? Or am I missing something?
dB-
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I'm a lot less impressed after watching the video than I hoped I would be (although I do love that screen!)...the demo just made it even more glaringly obvious to me how many ways it falls short of the MT for everything that it did right. Is it that hard for someone to take a step forward in designing these things without taking two back???
Craig
Could expand on your observation?
yeah, to me, it looks like a total upgrade over my R-1, and I'm pretty enthused about it, as long as it can use 4gb cards. What's your issue with it?
Are you considering it a "total upgrade" merely for the fact that it's smaller and does 24/48 over the 24/44.1 capability of the R1? Or am I missing something?
dB-
That's about how I see it too. I will not be "upgrading" to the R-09. As far as I'm concerned, the R-1 will provide me with the exact same features that I'll be needing, and I don't feel like moving to SD cards cuz it's just a pain to have to buy new cards... etc.
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I very much want to be able to record at 24/48. I see it as an upgrade for that, individual level meters, smaller size... Don't get me wrong, I really dig the R-1, but I'm gonna move to this when it comes out if the 4gb card issue is fixed.
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I very much want to be able to record at 24/48. I see it as an upgrade for that, individual level meters, smaller size... Don't get me wrong, I really dig the R-1, but I'm gonna move to this when it comes out if the 4gb card issue is fixed.
I'm not sure if I should hold out for a possible Oade modded R-09 or if I shold get an R1, but I thing I have to ask...
If they haven't fixed the 4GB issue with the R1 why would they be any faster in getting it done for the R-09?
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the manual says that the R1 only accepts 2GB cards but I've been using a 4GB card with mine and haven't had ANY compatability issues with it
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the manual says that the R1 only accepts 2GB cards but I've been using a 4GB card with mine and haven't had ANY compatability issues with it
Yup. You can use a 4gb card in an R-1.
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the manual says that the R1 only accepts 2GB cards but I've been using a 4GB card with mine and haven't had ANY compatability issues with it
Yup. You can use a 4gb card in an R-1.
Have they implimentd an auto-file split feature for the R1? That's what I was referring to
If 4GB cards are compatable with the R-09 then it will be a good replacement for the R1 for sure.
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the manual says that the R1 only accepts 2GB cards but I've been using a 4GB card with mine and haven't had ANY compatability issues with it
Yup. You can use a 4gb card in an R-1.
Sandisk Ultra 8 GB card works too.
Jeff
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I think the R09 will be rock solid, just like the R1. Notice, you hardly see any "problem" threads regarding R1, but there seems to be a new one for the Microtrack everyday. The digital input is not enough to sway me to buy one.
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I very much want to be able to record at 24/48. I see it as an upgrade for that, individual level meters, smaller size... Don't get me wrong, I really dig the R-1, but I'm gonna move to this when it comes out if the 4gb card issue is fixed.
i feel the same way. +T back to you, pfife. at 24/48, no upsampling required: you can make a DVD-V disc with Audio DVD Creator (which will have more player compatibility than a DVD-A disc at 24/44.1).
i've had no troubles stealthing with the R-1, but the smaller size will be nice. and let's not forget, if the R-09 is as reliable as the R-1, the R-09 should make a great little recorder. i'm getting stoked for this 2nd gen. R-1 (the R-09).
Zaphod - no, Edirol did not implement an auto split feature for the R-1. sort of a shame, but they are probably thinking, "it works well, why try to add features"... and apparently they have been working on making the R-09, so...
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i've had no troubles stealthing with the R-1, but the smaller size will be nice. and let's not forget, if the R-09 is as reliable as the R-1, the R-09 should make a great little recorder. i'm getting stoked for this 2nd gen. R-1 (the R-09).
The form factor alone is reason enough to replace the R1. This thing appears to be the size of a cell phone. The R1 is a pain in the ass to take out of your front pocket for level checking or starting a new file.
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What about the analog input path, and impedance, SNR, THD, etc?
Any info known?
Battery life?
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I very much want to be able to record at 24/48. I see it as an upgrade for that, individual level meters, smaller size... Don't get me wrong, I really dig the R-1, but I'm gonna move to this when it comes out if the 4gb card issue is fixed.
i feel the same way. +T back to you, pfife. at 24/48, no upsampling required: you can make a DVD-V disc with Audio DVD Creator (which will have more player compatibility than a DVD-A disc at 24/44.1).
This is exactly what I want to do.
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I'm a lot less impressed after watching the video than I hoped I would be (although I do love that screen!)...the demo just made it even more glaringly obvious to me how many ways it falls short of the MT for everything that it did right. Is it that hard for someone to take a step forward in designing these things without taking two back???
Could expand on your observation?
Well, I currently have an MT that actually works, so despite my current disgust for M-Audio (for various reasons not completely related to the MT) I'm not going to move to something else unless it's a step up. The R-09 falls short of the MT in the following areas for me:
- 1/8" input only...a deal-killer in and of itself
- No phantom...30V is better than nothing but without XLR or TRS inputs it's a moot point anyway
- No digital input, which I need when I'm out of stealth mode and using the MT with my AD-20
- No more rugged-looking in build-quality than the MT, but that could just be the demo unit
On the plus side:
- Great screen
- Not M-Audio
- Replaceable batteries
I'm well aware that the MT is perceived as somewhat of a crap shoot based on the experiences of early adopters, and for that reason alone is enough to make it a non-option for many here. That wasn't my point in my original post. My point was that while M-Audio may not have done it right, they did it. Why can't a company like Edirol come in 6 months later, learn from M-Audio's mistakes, and do it properly? Why release something that offers less instead of more (or at least the same done better)?
Craig
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- No digital input, which I need when I'm out of stealth mode and using the MT with my AD-20
So are you saying the ad20 has a better a/d than the r1 @ 24/44.1?
- No more rugged-looking in build-quality than the MT, but that could just be the demo unit
I can't imagine any box being less rugged than the MT. :)
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I'm a lot less impressed after watching the video than I hoped I would be (although I do love that screen!)...the demo just made it even more glaringly obvious to me how many ways it falls short of the MT for everything that it did right. Is it that hard for someone to take a step forward in designing these things without taking two back???
Could expand on your observation?
Well, I currently have an MT that actually works, so despite my current disgust for M-Audio (for various reasons not completely related to the MT) I'm not going to move to something else unless it's a step up. The R-09 falls short of the MT in the following areas for me:
- 1/8" input only...a deal-killer in and of itself
- No phantom...30V is better than nothing but without XLR or TRS inputs it's a moot point anyway
- No digital input, which I need when I'm out of stealth mode and using the MT with my AD-20
- No more rugged-looking in build-quality than the MT, but that could just be the demo unit
On the plus side:
- Great screen
- Not M-Audio
- Replaceable batteries
I'm well aware that the MT is perceived as somewhat of a crap shoot based on the experiences of early adopters, and for that reason alone is enough to make it a non-option for many here. That wasn't my point in my original post. My point was that while M-Audio may not have done it right, they did it. Why can't a company like Edirol come in 6 months later, learn from M-Audio's mistakes, and do it properly? Why release something that offers less instead of more (or at least the same done better)?
Craig
Because Edirol's "Less" is still better than MAudio's "More". Build quality is everything. Edirol has that part figured out. M Audio, well .......................... :-\
Its like comparing a Buick to Jaguar. The Jag has all the bells and whistles and looks really sexy, but its always in the shop. The Buick is always on the road and does the job. Gets me where I want to be with no fuss.
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Because Edirol's "Less" is still better than MAudio's "More". Build quality is everything. Edirol has that part figured out. M Audio, well .......................... :-\
Granted, the MT isn't a beast nor does it have that weighty heavyness to it that makes it feel like a tank... but I've never felt that it was going to break and I have no issues with it while recording.
sorry for the de-rail.
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the one thing about this box that intrigues me is that i may be able to use it as the adc for my second rig and capture a high quality 24 bit recording, if the adc is the same as the r1.
mics > psp2 (1/8" ouput) > r09 (1/8" input) @ 24/48.
this box may be the stealthy 24/48 adc that a lot of us using a quality pre have been looking for.
I think someone called them, and they said that it was the same adc as the r1.
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on another note, how does the r1 adc stack up against the v3 adc? anyone done a comp?
I have run v3 @24/48 vs r1 @ 24/44 and couldn't notice much difference and certainly not enough to justify keeping the v3.
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Build quality is everything. Edirol has that part figured out.
Actually I'd say Marantz has that part figured out over both Edirol and M-Audio. (At least in terms of ruggedness.)
Craig
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Build quality is everything. Edirol has that part figured out.
Actually I'd say Marantz has that part figured out over both Edirol and M-Audio. (At least in terms of ruggedness.)
Craig
actually I would argue that sound devices has them all beat
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why would having the 1/8" input supply the p30 be a problem? i don't follow............
That could just be my own ignorance. Can you run XLR mics into a 1/8" mic jack? I know you can get adapter cables but I was under the impression that there's a fundamental difference (on several levels) between an 1/8" mic jack and an XLR/TRS jack that results in, at best, a sacrifice in sound quality if you try to do this.
Craig
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671 vs 722 would be a cool comparison. Same mics, no preamp, would do it.
Agreed on Marantz. I've been going back and forth: MP2 > R09 or 660. 24 bit ain't no thing to me right now. :-[ Stealthier rig is.
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24 bit ain't no thing to me right now. :-[ Stealthier rig is.
Blasphemer! Actually, can't you have both with the r-09?
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on another note, how does the r1 adc stack up against the v3 adc? anyone done a comp?
I have run v3 @24/48 vs r1 @ 24/44 and couldn't notice much difference and certainly not enough to justify keeping the v3.
Edirol should pay you comission! ;)
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24 bit ain't no thing to me right now. :-[ Stealthier rig is.
Blasphemer! Actually, can't you have both with the r-09?
2 boxes. Crotchability gets dicey when you have a long hoof from the parking lot, like SPAC's. ;)
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24 bit ain't no thing to me right now. :-[ Stealthier rig is.
Blasphemer! Actually, can't you have both with the r-09?
2 boxes. Crotchability gets dicey when you have a long hoof from the parking lot, like SPAC's. ;)
Yup.. that's correct. my oversight!
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on another note, how does the r1 adc stack up against the v3 adc? anyone done a comp?
I have run v3 @24/48 vs r1 @ 24/44 and couldn't notice much difference and certainly not enough to justify keeping the v3.
Edirol should pay you comission! ;)
If the new one comes out before May, I will have bought 3 of their recorders in the last 12 months, they should have a Points program like Best Buy Rewards for me. :)
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This box isn't a step up for Edirol, but a step to the side.
Yes, the smaller size and 48khz additions are great.
But, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, this unit falls short in it's use of digital "buttons" for level control rather than a manual dial like the R-1.
This is a shortcoming when compared to the functionality of the R-1. If the R-09 offered a digi-in, this would be a non-issue, since it would be used as a bit-bucket, like the MT and JB3 are used, with levels set by an external pre running digi-out to the recorder.
But since the R-09 has no digi-in, the "best" rig set-up on it would be using an external pre going analog-in to the 1/8th inch input and having to use these digital level control buttons in conjunction with the levels on the pre. Which means the unit is slave to the same analog-in quality of the R-1, but without the same fine-tuning flexibility of the dial. No taping down of levels, and reliance on whatever the quality of the digital level controls give to the unit.
The R-1 still has this one beat.
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2 boxes. Crotchability gets dicey when you have a long hoof from the parking lot, like SPAC's. ;)
dan, the at's can run from 9>48v of phantom power, so your setup would be at853rx > r09. no need for the ps2/ad20 anymore with this setup. the only thing is you'd need an adapter to go from dual xlr > 1/8" in. i dunno if that type of adaptation is a no-no though, we're still waiting for someone to clarify.
if your un at853rxs without a full 48V you will run into distortion issues
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2 boxes. Crotchability gets dicey when you have a long hoof from the parking lot, like SPAC's. ;)
dan, the at's can run from 9>48v of phantom power, so your setup would be at853rx > r09. no need for the ps2/ad20 anymore with this setup. the only thing is you'd need an adapter to go from dual xlr > 1/8" in. i dunno if that type of adaptation is a no-no though, we're still waiting for someone to clarify.
Did I miss something? I thought the R09 was only providing 5V of power through the mic jack...that's what the rep said in the NAMM demo video.
Craig
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2 boxes. Crotchability gets dicey when you have a long hoof from the parking lot, like SPAC's. ;)
dan, the at's can run from 9>48v of phantom power, so your setup would be at853rx > r09. no need for the ps2/ad20 anymore with this setup. the only thing is you'd need an adapter to go from dual xlr > 1/8" in. i dunno if that type of adaptation is a no-no though, we're still waiting for someone to clarify.
if your un at853rxs without a full 48V you will run into distortion issues
Thanks Nick. I didn't know that. :)
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2 boxes. Crotchability gets dicey when you have a long hoof from the parking lot, like SPAC's. ;)
dan, the at's can run from 9>48v of phantom power, so your setup would be at853rx > r09. no need for the ps2/ad20 anymore with this setup. the only thing is you'd need an adapter to go from dual xlr > 1/8" in. i dunno if that type of adaptation is a no-no though, we're still waiting for someone to clarify.
Tim, I doubt the R09 is gonna provide 2 channel phantom power. It will be like the R-1, you need a pre, is my guess. 480s > MP2 > R09 or with the 853RXs, is so damn enticing. This battle in my mind might go on, until hopefully, someday, Marantz debuts a 661. Either way, I'm making a move to CF recording before summer.
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2 boxes. Crotchability gets dicey when you have a long hoof from the parking lot, like SPAC's. ;)
dan, the at's can run from 9>48v of phantom power, so your setup would be at853rx > r09. no need for the ps2/ad20 anymore with this setup. the only thing is you'd need an adapter to go from dual xlr > 1/8" in. i dunno if that type of adaptation is a no-no though, we're still waiting for someone to clarify.
if your un at853rxs without a full 48V you will run into distortion issues
no shit, i did not know that. you sure nick? i thought the at8533 module that's terminated at the end of the cabling steps whatever phantom voltage is sent to it down to 9 volts; any more than that and the mic would fry. i dont see how giving it a p48 or 30 volts would matter. can you elaborate?
I dont know about that....I know that when I ran the 853RX with the MP2, I once had the V set to 15V instead of 48V and I got all kinds of distortion
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2 boxes. Crotchability gets dicey when you have a long hoof from the parking lot, like SPAC's. ;)
dan, the at's can run from 9>48v of phantom power, so your setup would be at853rx > r09. no need for the ps2/ad20 anymore with this setup. the only thing is you'd need an adapter to go from dual xlr > 1/8" in. i dunno if that type of adaptation is a no-no though, we're still waiting for someone to clarify.
if your un at853rxs without a full 48V you will run into distortion issues
no shit, i did not know that. you sure nick? i thought the at8533 module that's terminated at the end of the cabling steps whatever phantom voltage is sent to it down to 9 volts; any more than that and the mic would fry. i dont see how giving it a p48 or 30 volts would matter. can you elaborate?
I dont know about that....I know that when I ran the 853RX with the MP2, I once had the V set to 15V instead of 48V and I got all kinds of distortion
I've read what nick is saying, but its primarily in conjunction w/ a sound pros bb. I think the at8533 comes on the at853 standard, and runs them at 48v, not something less than 48v. But, I could be completely wrong. That's just what I've thought.
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This box isn't a step up for Edirol, but a step to the side.
Yes, the smaller size and 48khz additions are great.
But, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, this unit falls short in it's use of digital "buttons" for level control rather than a manual dial like the R-1.
This is a shortcoming when compared to the functionality of the R-1. If the R-09 offered a digi-in, this would be a non-issue, since it would be used as a bit-bucket, like the MT and JB3 are used, with levels set by an external pre running digi-out to the recorder.
But since the R-09 has no digi-in, the "best" rig set-up on it would be using an external pre going analog-in to the 1/8th inch input and having to use these digital level control buttons in conjunction with the levels on the pre. Which means the unit is slave to the same analog-in quality of the R-1, but without the same fine-tuning flexibility of the dial. No taping down of levels, and reliance on whatever the quality of the digital level controls give to the unit.
The R-1 still has this one beat.
For someone with an external adc, its definately a step to the side. But, for someone relying on its adc, its a step up - which is the situation I'm in. While I understand your issue with the digital buttons, the flip side of it is that the levels possibly could be locked since its digital, whereas they can't on the R-1.
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2 boxes. Crotchability gets dicey when you have a long hoof from the parking lot, like SPAC's. ;)
dan, the at's can run from 9>48v of phantom power, so your setup would be at853rx > r09. no need for the ps2/ad20 anymore with this setup. the only thing is you'd need an adapter to go from dual xlr > 1/8" in. i dunno if that type of adaptation is a no-no though, we're still waiting for someone to clarify.
if your un at853rxs without a full 48V you will run into distortion issues
no shit, i did not know that. you sure nick? i thought the at8533 module that's terminated at the end of the cabling steps whatever phantom voltage is sent to it down to 9 volts; any more than that and the mic would fry. i dont see how giving it a p48 or 30 volts would matter. can you elaborate?
I dont know about that....I know that when I ran the 853RX with the MP2, I once had the V set to 15V instead of 48V and I got all kinds of distortion
I've read what nick is saying, but its primarily in conjunction w/ a sound pros bb. I think the at8533 comes on the at853 standard, and runs them at 48v, not something less than 48v. But, I could be completely wrong. That's just what I've thought.
I did have massive problems with distortion with the SP batt box powered option...maybe the 15V from the MP2 was attributable to other factors. I didnt test it again after that...
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fair enough, guess the problems I had were other factors...was the chili peppers and I was 15 feet in front of the bass cabinet, so maybe that was it...I just had so many problems with the SP mics I assumed it was the mic specs
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I stand corrected as well... but, with what I've read from many people around here, I still think that you won't get the same results at 9v that you would at 48...
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sooo....if you guys already have an ADC that feeds digitally to your MT why are you wanting to switch recorders? the R1 is at least good enough to do my stealthing with but if all you do is open tape then why not invest in something more high end?
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sooo....if you guys already have an ADC that feeds digitally to your MT why are you wanting to switch recorders? the R1 is at least good enough to do my stealthing with but if all you do is open tape then why not invest in something more high end?
Speaking for myself (obviously!):
- I don't just open tape...I want something good enough and flexible enough to be able to handle different scenarios.
- I'd rather have a clean preamp and decent ADC in an all-in-one MT/R09-sized device than have to deal with separate devices.
- I'm willing to go more high end to a point, but right now there is no step up from the MT/R09 in the same form factor that I've seen.
Craig
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This box isn't a step up for Edirol, but a step to the side.
Yes, the smaller size and 48khz additions are great.
But, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, this unit falls short in it's use of digital "buttons" for level control rather than a manual dial like the R-1.
This is a shortcoming when compared to the functionality of the R-1. If the R-09 offered a digi-in, this would be a non-issue, since it would be used as a bit-bucket, like the MT and JB3 are used, with levels set by an external pre running digi-out to the recorder.
But since the R-09 has no digi-in, the "best" rig set-up on it would be using an external pre going analog-in to the 1/8th inch input and having to use these digital level control buttons in conjunction with the levels on the pre. Which means the unit is slave to the same analog-in quality of the R-1, but without the same fine-tuning flexibility of the dial. No taping down of levels, and reliance on whatever the quality of the digital level controls give to the unit.
The R-1 still has this one beat.
This is an excellent point. My R-1 is set perfectly in sync with the MP-2 level meters now with the manual dial taped down. If the R-09 can't easily be calibrated to a pre due to the digital button levels, then I agree that the R-1 is better, especially if you don't care about 44.1 vs 48 khz, which I don't.
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just curious, why do people prefer setting levels on their pre rather than their DAT/MT/R1? is that a better ADC typically and its the point in your chain where you want to control gain? you still need to check levels on both the pre and recorder, right (unless its a digi-in to the MT)?
i've never used a variable gain pre which is why i ask....
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on another note, how does the r1 adc stack up against the v3 adc? anyone done a comp?
I have run v3 @24/48 vs r1 @ 24/44 and couldn't notice much difference and certainly not enough to justify keeping the v3.
Stock or mod R1?
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on another note, how does the r1 adc stack up against the v3 adc? anyone done a comp?
I have run v3 @24/48 vs r1 @ 24/44 and couldn't notice much difference and certainly not enough to justify keeping the v3.
Stock or mod R1?
I have a stock r1
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I know this thing does not have digi in right?
but why does it say OPTICAL by the headphone jack in this pic?
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/mas_assets/full/ED-R-09-C.jpg
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I know this thing does not have digi in right?
but why does it say OPTICAL by the headphone jack in this pic?
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/mas_assets/full/ED-R-09-C.jpg
The headphones jack acts as headphone out / line out / and optical out. This is an output, not an input.
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I think i'll be jumping on this as well. It looks great (smaller form factor that the R-1) and 24/48 in case I do any dvd-a authoring in the future.
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I think i'll be jumping on this as well. It looks great (smaller form factor that the R-1) and 24/48 in case I do any dvd-a authoring in the future.
you can do dvd-a when you record at 44.1khz - its those Audio DVDs from Audio DVD creator that need to be at 48khz. However, that program appears to upsample when its not 48khz coming in... I'm not sure what that does sonically though. Maybe nothing?
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I am waiting for the R-11.
Following the mathematical pattern, the next model with be R16. :-)
1^2 = 1
2^2 = 4
3^2 = 9
4^2 = 16
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I think i'll be jumping on this as well. It looks great (smaller form factor that the R-1) and 24/48 in case I do any dvd-a authoring in the future.
you can do dvd-a when you record at 44.1khz - its those Audio DVDs from Audio DVD creator that need to be at 48khz. However, that program appears to upsample when its not 48khz coming in... I'm not sure what that does sonically though. Maybe nothing?
Ah ok, thanks for the clarification :)
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One thing people are not mentioning when comapring the R-09 to the R-01 is better metering. Having both channels displayed instead of just the 1 average meter on the R-01 should help when trying to get a good stereo balance and mic aiming when you aren't taping from centerstage. That issue with the smaller size and the 24/48 means I am probably going to get the R-09. Also the OLED screen on the R-09 looks great.
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if only they would of used CF as the media....
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if only they would of used CF as the media....
SD or CF, it ain't gonna matter. ;)
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if only they would of used CF as the media....
Why?
Craig
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if only they would of used CF as the media....
Why?
Craig
SD is limited at 4GB. SD is cheaper, but the 4GB barrier would be a PITA for me.
-dvn
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So you're saying we'll never see an 8gb SD card? Ever?
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CF is there now. Never said that SD would never hit 8gb, but I'll wait until SD comes out with one, then I'll reconsider.
-dvn
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Wow. What are you taping that you can't switch cards every 6 hours? So much so that it is a deal breaker. I can understand wanting 4GB, I want it myself but 8GB seems a bit high for a requirement unless the thing does more than stereo recording. Seems to me the R-1 or the MicroTrack suits your needs. The R-09 will certainly fit mine. Thank you "Taper's Section" you guys have filled in the gaps of a lot of questions I had on the R-09.
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6? 24/48 will use up 4gb in just about 4 hours. I am currently using the MT and as such, I should stop commenting in the R-9 thread. ;-)
I was just posting a possible reason as to the other guys comment that he wished they used CF instead of SD.
Btw... looks like the upper limit according to sdcard.com will be 32gb, but not for awhile... the 6gb starts at 2007 and drifts off into whoknowswhen land...
(http://www.sdcard.com/usa/WhatSD/roadmap.gif)
-dvn
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You can use SD cards in any CF device with a simple, cheap adapter. But you can't put CF cards into a SD device. So that makes SD much more useful if you are thinking of compatibility with more devices in the future. I already have many of both kinds of cards, but if I am spending the big bucks on the latest large size cards like 4GB I want to be able to use it in all my devices, and future ones too, which seem to be more and more SD card based.
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That's good to know.. I wonder if that impacts the performance in any way or causes complications while recording.
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It seems like more devices use CF than SD. I already have 4gb of cf and am considering a nikon dslr that would also use cf.. My current camera uses cf. My 722 uses CF. My mt uses CF. So not much interest in buying sd.
I think most of the new point and shoot cameras use SD. Each media has its advantages and disadvanges. In the past SD was definitely faster than CF, but that may have changed with the newer faster CF cards. SD is also smaller than CF type II.
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if only they would of used CF as the media....
Why?
Craig
uh, because i have a buttload of CF memory and no SD and I dont feel like buying more digi cards that i will only be able to use in a single device. Right now I can use CF in the MT and the HD-P2
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http://www.dpreview.com/news/0603/06030902panasonic4gbsdhc.asp
Does this article make sense to people? This is claiming that the jump to 4GB on Secure Digital is tough due to the fact that the SD specifications originally were capped at 1GB. I assume this is why Edirol actually has development requirements to support cards of 4GB. The thing I don't understand about this SDHC is what it is fixing. The articale claims "addressing anything over 2 GB became the next problem." Does this mean these cards are fixing the 2GB file size limitation, or just addressing the whole 4GB of space. If the former is true, it doesn't really matter as I understand wav itself has a 2GB file size limit (or do I have more misinformation on that one). If it is the later, what is difference between this Panasonic card and the existing 4GB SD cards? Will the Edirol R-09 support both kinds of 4GB cards?
Personally, I want the Edirol R-09 with a 4GB card. I'd pre-order one if I knew support was going to be present.
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I guess the big question is: is the R09 a SDHC device? If it is, no biggie.
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http://www.dpreview.com/news/0603/06030902panasonic4gbsdhc.asp
Does this article make sense to people? This is claiming that the jump to 4GB on Secure Digital is tough due to the fact that the SD specifications originally were capped at 1GB. I assume this is why Edirol actually has development requirements to support cards of 4GB. The thing I don't understand about this SDHC is what it is fixing. The articale claims "addressing anything over 2 GB became the next problem." Does this mean these cards are fixing the 2GB file size limitation, or just addressing the whole 4GB of space. If the former is true, it doesn't really matter as I understand wav itself has a 2GB file size limit (or do I have more misinformation on that one). If it is the later, what is difference between this Panasonic card and the existing 4GB SD cards? Will the Edirol R-09 support both kinds of 4GB cards?
Personally, I want the Edirol R-09 with a 4GB card. I'd pre-order one if I knew support was going to be present.
It seems to be something newer and faster, albeit with support for DRM. Some news was on Engadget...
http://www.engadget.com/2006/01/06/sdhc-to-boost-sd-capacities-befuddle-consumers/
The 2gb limitations regarding SD I expect are based upon physical design not on FAT16/FAT32/Windows Media limits.
Gordon
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The 2gb limitations regarding SD I expect are based upon physical design not on FAT16/FAT32/Windows Media limits.
2GB is the physical limitation of a 32-bit address bus. (That's my geek statement of the day.)
Craig
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I think I'm going to cry (from SP):
Well we finally have heard from Edirol with some info about the R-09s. Unfortunately, the date has been pused back from "some time in April" to "some time in May".
and
...anyone who receives this email will not receive their recorders with the first shipment. You are in the next batch to go after the first 25 however. The second shipment should be arriving in June or so.
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I pre-ordered a R-1 and waited forever....Edirol is a little slow but they work great,,,,I can't wait to play with a R-9......I sold my MT to make room.... It will probably ship before August (hehehehe)
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I think I'm going to cry (from SP):
Well we finally have heard from Edirol with some info about the R-09s. Unfortunately, the date has been pused back from "some time in April" to "some time in May".
and
...anyone who receives this email will not receive their recorders with the first shipment. You are in the next batch to go after the first 25 however. The second shipment should be arriving in June or so.
Damn, that sucks! I'll definitely be in line to buy one though when its available.
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SD had a 1GB limit that somehow got extended to 2GB. Most older devices will NOT accept cards larger than 1GB. The upgrade from 2GB to 4GB needed a hardware change. If Edirol mentioned a 2GB maximum in the R09, assume that they mean it until they say otherwise. It's not like CF where "2GB maximum" (former spec for the PMD660) meant "they didn't have a 4GB card in the shop and haven't tested it yet". 4GB SD cards are incompatible with older equipment and my guess is that if an upgrade is possible, it will require sending the unit to the shop for a hardware mod. Nonetheless, 4GB isn't so terrible-- even at 24/48 it's over 5 hours of recording, and in mp3 it's near-unlimited.
What I really want to know and nobody has said is how long you can record without a battery swap (assume two 2500 mAH AA NiMH cells). With the PMD660, I can record for 6+ hours (maybe almost 8 hours if I push it) on four AA's, and in fact I do that all the time. I'd like it they made some kind of accessory battery pack for these things like some digicams have, that held 8 AA's or whatever, allowing 12+ hours nonstop recording (in mp3). Yes, I really do want to do that, at all-day or all-night events. The PMD660 is not the greatest machine I can imagine, but its battery runtime is pretty good, at least double the R-1's from what I understand.
The R-1 manual also said that the recording could get screwed up if the recorder wasn't shut off properly, i.e. if you just let it run til the batteries crap out, the file can get clobbered. I hope they fixed that with the R09. This is one of the reasons I bought the PMD660 instead of the R-1. I've let the batteries in the PMD660 crap out many times and nothing bad has happened, the file just ends when the power ran out.
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that "auto shut down" feature of the Marantz decks is nice.
:)
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Thanks for the insightful review phr. +T
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SD had a 1GB limit that somehow got extended to 2GB. Most older devices will NOT accept cards larger than 1GB. The upgrade from 2GB to 4GB needed a hardware change. If Edirol mentioned a 2GB maximum in the R09, assume that they mean it until they say otherwise. It's not like CF where "2GB maximum" (former spec for the PMD660) meant "they didn't have a 4GB card in the shop and haven't tested it yet". 4GB SD cards are incompatible with older equipment and my guess is that if an upgrade is possible, it will require sending the unit to the shop for a hardware mod. Nonetheless, 4GB isn't so terrible-- even at 24/48 it's over 5 hours of recording, and in mp3 it's near-unlimited.
What I really want to know and nobody has said is how long you can record without a battery swap (assume two 2500 mAH AA NiMH cells). With the PMD660, I can record for 6+ hours (maybe almost 8 hours if I push it) on four AA's, and in fact I do that all the time. I'd like it they made some kind of accessory battery pack for these things like some digicams have, that held 8 AA's or whatever, allowing 12+ hours nonstop recording (in mp3). Yes, I really do want to do that, at all-day or all-night events. The PMD660 is not the greatest machine I can imagine, but its battery runtime is pretty good, at least double the R-1's from what I understand.
The R-1 manual also said that the recording could get screwed up if the recorder wasn't shut off properly, i.e. if you just let it run til the batteries crap out, the file can get clobbered. I hope they fixed that with the R09. This is one of the reasons I bought the PMD660 instead of the R-1. I've let the batteries in the PMD660 crap out many times and nothing bad has happened, the file just ends when the power ran out.
R1 can record for at least 6 hours on a pair of fresh lithiums. I've done around 4 hours field recording in one night and the batteries still had alot of juice left. There's definate truth in the shut off issue though. I had one instance where my R1 fell off the table it was on and hit the floor and the recording was lost. So I guess you have to be kind of careful when using Edirol stuff.
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otoh, just last week I had my R-1 batteries die (I watched it shut off - I was waiting for a good time in the set to do a swap), and the file was perfectly fine. I was ready to swap when the batteries died, so I only missed prolly 20secs or so of music. I run it on Energizer 2500mAh's, but I got some new batteries (exact same ones) and it records much longer on new batteries...
I personally would consider the inability to use a 4gb SD card as a deal breaker for me. I know that if I had to swap out 2gb SD cards that I would lose one of them. Its only a matter of time, and I know my weaknesses.
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Nonetheless, 4GB isn't so terrible-- even at 24/48 it's over 5 hours of recording, and in mp3 it's near-unlimited.
Actually, at 24/48 you can run just over 4 hours with a 4GB card. Hopefully not many of us are considering using MP3 for recording ;)
Later,
pjdavep
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Anyone have recommendations on where to pre-order? Found a few sites out there, amazing that some don't even mention that the product is not in stock and let you think you're buying one right now. I emailed 8th Street, said they'd have some in first week of April. Not sure how reliable that is.
edit: just called 8thStreet - they are now saying "end of April"
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edit: just called 8thStreet - they are now saying "end of April"
For the Europeans on here, that's also what the guy at www.thomann.de told me yesterday, at least as far as availability in Germany is concerned.
On a side note, their price for the R-09 is EUR 419, which is actually more than the R1. (Wasn't the R-09 supposed to be less expensive?)
I'll probably order one of these. If it sounds as good as the R1, then this is the perfect replacement for my D100 and a great stealth recorder.
edit: according to Edirol, shipping will start in mid-May, at least in Germany...
edit #2: I pre-ordered one! 8)
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I've seen a couple of sites quoting 5/5/2006 availability.
http://www.samedaymusic.com/product--EDIR09
http://www.zzounds.com/item--EDIR09
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So what's the story on this? I'm really wondering if it will record to 4 gig cards and if it will auto-split at the 2 gig max. I really want to get into 24 bit stealthing.
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http://createdigitalmusic.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1130&Itemid=44
"Phantom power: A controversial element of the MicroTrack was its inability to put out a full 48V phantom power for mics. Not a huge issue given the target market, but Edirol said they have true 48V phantom power on the R-09. That spec isn't on the Roland website, though, so the jury's still out."
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I'm thinking of snagging a 2gb card before our dollar drops even further and bumps the local price up.
Would a Kingston Elite Pro, Secure Digital Card, 2GB, 50X be OK,
http://www.ascent.co.nz/ProductSpecification.aspx?ItemID=345218
or would I be better off with a faster
Kingston Ultimate, Secure Digital Card, 2GB Speed Rating** - 23MB/sec. read rate; 133X / 20MB/sec. write rate card?
http://www.ascent.co.nz/ProductSpecification.aspx?ItemID=341420
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I just ordered my R-9 from Music 123 ( I have an account)..............I ordered my R-1 months before it was released...Might as well continue the tradition..........I hope I see it before August........hehehehehe
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i have no idea what the New Zealand > US$ coversion rate is, and i'm too lazy to look it up at the moment. but you can get a 133x Corsair 2GB SD card for US$50 + shipping after mail-in rebate at zipsoomfly.com.
i'm so tempted to order a couple of those 2GB SD cards, but then i'd be forced to order an R-09... ;D
I'm thinking of snagging a 2gb card before our dollar drops even further and bumps the local price up.
Would a Kingston Elite Pro, Secure Digital Card, 2GB, 50X be OK,
http://www.ascent.co.nz/ProductSpecification.aspx?ItemID=345218
or would I be better off with a faster
Kingston Ultimate, Secure Digital Card, 2GB Speed Rating** - 23MB/sec. read rate; 133X / 20MB/sec. write rate card?
http://www.ascent.co.nz/ProductSpecification.aspx?ItemID=341420
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Human greeeeeed..... ;D
i have no idea what the New Zealand > US$ coversion rate is, and i'm too lazy to look it up at the moment. but you can get a 133x Corsair 2GB SD card for US$50 + shipping after mail-in rebate at zipsoomfly.com.
i'm so tempted to order a couple of those 2GB SD cards, but then i'd be forced to order an R-09... ;D
I'm thinking of snagging a 2gb card before our dollar drops even further and bumps the local price up.
Would a Kingston Elite Pro, Secure Digital Card, 2GB, 50X be OK,
http://www.ascent.co.nz/ProductSpecification.aspx?ItemID=345218
or would I be better off with a faster
Kingston Ultimate, Secure Digital Card, 2GB Speed Rating** - 23MB/sec. read rate; 133X / 20MB/sec. write rate card?
http://www.ascent.co.nz/ProductSpecification.aspx?ItemID=341420
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He who dies with the most toys, wins.......
Peace,
JK
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I was looking at SP's site (OK, yes to drool over the pictures...and I'm not ashamed to admit it) and saw this.
Update 3-14-06: Roland, in their effort to meet the needs of all of their dealers, has decided to partially fill all dealers orders (instead of first ordered, first shipped)when this recorder first hits the market. Because of this, we will not receive our full order in the first batch of recorders to arrive. Order placed now are not expected to ship until sometime in June or July.
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SP website has a new update added:
Update 4-18-06: Roland just informed us that the first release of the R-09 has been pushed back another month. Orders placed now are not expected to ship until sometime in July or August.
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While we're waiting for this elusive machine, does anyone have insight into the R01?
In particular, does anyone know anything about the internals: ADC, opamps, internal voltages, etc? Or perhaps some systematic testing for SNR, especially near 0dB FS.
Thanks,
Richard
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???
Update 5-3-06: Roland now says the release has been pushed back up to the end of May. I think they are trying to make us crazy.
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Manual is up: http://www.edirol.net/products/en/R-09/
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I've been looking around for some 2GB SD-cards and I wondered if anyone can recommend me a brand. One site I'm looking at has the following brands available (from cheapest to most expensive):
Kingston (1.5/5MB Write/read)
Sandisk Ultra II
TwinMos 150X Ultra-X
Corsair 133x (15.5/21MB Write/read)
Crucial (6/7MB Write/read)
Kingston Elite Pro (7.7/8.2MB Write/read)
Kingston Ultimate Pro (18/21MB Write/read) 120x
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I've been looking around for some 2GB SD-cards and I wondered if anyone can recommend me a brand. One site I'm looking at has the following brands available (from cheapest to most expensive):
Kingston (1.5/5MB Write/read)
Sandisk Ultra II
TwinMos 150X Ultra-X
Corsair 133x (15.5/21MB Write/read)
Crucial (6/7MB Write/read)
Kingston Elite Pro (7.7/8.2MB Write/read)
Kingston Ultimate Pro (18/21MB Write/read) 120x
Kingston Elite Pro cards are great... I have a 4gb CF in that flavour and it hasn't failed yet in my R-1... I would expect the R-09 to work fine with Elite Pro cards.
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Thanks for the input, I'll check it out :)
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Anyone have any experience using the TwinMos 150X Ultra-X sd card?
Seems to be the cheapest of the ones listed (that I can get a hold of).
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I'm gonna wait for Edirol to release a list of officially recommended memory modules. No sense in taking a gamble here.
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I'm gonna wait for Edirol to release a list of officially recommended memory modules. No sense in taking a gamble here.
Exactely. Plus we don't even know if this thing will support cards larger than 2GB, or do we?
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According to the manual on Edirol's website the R-09 will support SD-cards up to 2GB, nothing more. Those cards I listed above are all 2048MB.
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According to the manual on Edirol's website the R-09 will support SD-cards up to 2GB, nothing more. Those cards I listed above are all 2048MB.
Right, but in that video that was (is?) on the Roland site, the guy presenting the R-09 said they were hoping 4GB cards would supported when the R-09 was finally released. In addition to that, the R1 isn't supposed to support anything above 2GB according to the manual either, but of course we know that is not true. I guess the bottom line is it's still all speculation at this point...
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Hopefully, it's just because the manual was written before support for 4GB cards was finalized. I think I'll go for one of these as my first recording device anyway, but the ability to use 4GB would make the decision much easier.
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Yes, if I can use 4GB-cards then I'll jump to 24bit, but for now I'll stick to 16bit for 2hr+ concerts.
And why is your username the same as my father's name? :laugh:
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If 4GB cards are proven to work, I will make the switch from the R-1 to the R-09, that is if I can find a buyer for the R-1... might have to dump it CHEAP.
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Hi all!
Anyone can tell me something about the "optical output" of the R-09?
What specs it has?
Does it need a special connector?
Does it is furnished by Edirol?
Thanks, from static :)
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Anyone know the exact release date for this thing?
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The end of this month according to SoundProfessionals.com
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5/28 says minidisco
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From the soundprofessionals site:
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Important!! Pre-orders are now being accepted. These recorders will be in short supply for some time. We will not charge your credit card until they are ready to ship. You can cancel your order at any time (before it ships) with no obligation.
Update 3-14-06: Roland, in their effort to meet the needs of all of their dealers, has decided to partially fill all dealers orders (instead of first ordered, first shipped) when this recorder first hits the market. Because of this, we will not receive our full order in the first batch of recorders to arrive. Orders placed now are not expected to ship until sometime in June or July.
Update 4-18-06: Roland just informed us that the first release of the R-09 has been pushed back another month. Orders placed now are not expected to ship until sometime in July or August.
Update 5-3-06: Roland now says the release has been pushed back up to the end of May. I think they are trying to make us crazy.
-----------------------------------
I wouldn't be holding my breath waiting for this one.
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I looked at the downloaded manual and there are still some annoyances. I wonder why the deck has no digital INPUT so you can use it with an outboard ADC. And they only slightly de-stupidized the realtime clock bug in the R-1. The R-1 would forget what time it was when you powered it down. If you wanted correct timestamps on the recorded files, you had to set the time on the R-1 every time you turn it on. My 20 dollar Casio watch has been keeping correct time for 5+ years but Edirol couldn't do that with the R-1. The PMD660 doesn't have this problem and keeps correct time despite battery failures etc. The R-09 slightly improves on the R-1 situation in that it keeps time for a few days after you shut it off. That's just stupid--it doesn't take any power to speak of, to keep an internal clock alive.
Other than these issues, plus the 4GB SD card question which it sounds like they might fix, the R-09 looks like a real nice machine and I'll probably replace my PMD660 with one.
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phr said:
I looked at the downloaded manual and there are still some annoyances.
Where did you download the manual from? I did not find it on the Roland site. There is a brochure available, but know user manual. I would really like to look at the user manual. I have a unit on order from Sam Ash, but was told today not to expect it before mid-June.
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the manual and more:
http://www.roland.com/products/en/_support/om.cfm?ln=en&dsp=0&iCncd=1072
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The R-1 would forget what time it was when you powered it down. If you wanted correct timestamps on the recorded files, you had to set the time on the R-1 every time you turn it on.
What did I miss? I see no way to set the realtime clock on the R-1. I don't even think it has one. The date merely defaults to 1971 or something.
Paul
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Thanks for the site to the manual!!! :D
I wanted to find out about phantom power availability in the R-09. Does the manual answer that question? There is mention in the manual about powered mics, but it does not specifically mention phantom power or voltages available. Any help interpreting the manual will be much appreciated. Also, according to the manual, the unit is still limited to 2GB cards.
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Thanks for the site to the manual!!! :D
I wanted to find out about phantom power availability in the R-09. Does the manual answer that question? There is mention in the manual about powered mics, but it does not specifically mention phantom power or voltages available. Any help interpreting the manual will be much appreciated. Also, according to the manual, the unit is still limited to 2GB cards.
Mic powering seems powered minijack low voltage electret mic type, not high voltage phantom power.
BTW I have recent DSM-6S/EL mic + PA-6LC bass filter powering adapter customer in Japan recording heavy metal rock venue in Japan claiming to be using R-09 deck!?!
He has promised to let me know how this works out after using the system today.
This would indicate R-09 deck is already available there and not here?
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Are there no 'numbers' out for this thing yet? Stuff like signal to noise ratio, power output of the mic input, dynamic range, etc..? I know that's not the most important thing and it could still sound better than something with better 'numbers' claims, I'm just curious. Since it's coming out this week, I'd thought I'd find something poking around the Edirol site, but nope, nothing.
Later,
pjdavep
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hey all...
We just got word our order of R09s is on its way to us..... looks like Roland has finally got it together.
Thanks,
Frank
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hey all...
We just got word our order of R09s is on its way to us..... looks like Roland has finally got it together.
Thanks,
Frank
Awesome thanks for the update!
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hey all...
We just got word our order of R09s is on its way to us..... looks like Roland has finally got it together.
Thanks,
Frank
wow, cool... too bad about that 2gb limit. Meanwhile, Patriot showed 16GB CF and 8GB SD cards at CeBit...
http://www.noticias3d.com/articulo.asp?idarticulo=573&pag=3
http://www.noticias3d.com/articulos/200603/cebitday1/imagenes/DSCN3503.JPG