Topic: SP Omnis or Cardioids?

[bsorocks]

So I'm on a mission to get myself some new mics.  I've settled on Sound Professionals...but I need advice on whether I should get cardioids or omni/binaurals.  I'd be going with the cheap stuff (i think of those would be an improvement over my current Sony DS70P.)

I do mostly stealth recording...in arenas and theaters.  And I don't use a battery box of preamp yet.   I'm usually toward the back/balcony of any given hall.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

[dean]

Definitely want cards or hypers if you're towards the back of a hall, and for stealth, cards are more versatile, anyway.  Omnis, while they can certainly be excellent, pick up more of the clapping and associated crowd noise from the attendees next to you.

Also, how you set up your gear/wear your gear will make a HUGE difference.  Do a bunch of searching here, but feel free to PM me for ideas.  We try, though usually fail, to keep open talk about st3alth on the down low around here.  There's been definite instances where band staff have actually read threads here to identify individual tapers and bust 'em at a show.  Rare, but they can surely pick up techniques.  PM'ing is the way to go with specifics on techniques.

[Dede2002]

So I'm on a mission to get myself some new mics.  I've settled on Sound Professionals...but I need advice on whether I should get cardioids or omni/binaurals.  I'd be going with the cheap stuff (i think of those would be an improvement over my current Sony DS70P.)

I do mostly stealth recording...in arenas and theaters.  And I don't use a battery box of preamp yet.   I'm usually toward the back/balcony of any given hall.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

Hi,

Well, I supose I'm not exactly the right person to give you any tips. I'm a begginer (only 1 1/2 years tapping). But there's a thing or two I can tell you.
I don't know what kind of material you're tapping or intend to tape. If it's loud music, you're going to need a battery box for sure. The power provided by your recorder is not enough to power your mics to handle high SLP.
As far as the cardioid x onmi question goes, I know the diferences and all that, but my advise to you is search Sound Professionals site. They have a very nice material on this matter. There you go:

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?category=binvscardfaq

Hope that helps

[nameloc01]

Cards,cards and more cards. Depending on which ones you get..make sure to get the CORRECT powering setup.

[Arni99]

Don´t forget the low-sens-mod when you go for the sp-cmc-4u or sp-cmc-8 mics.
With this mod you won´t run into distortion at very loud shows with high SPL.

[paulbaptiste]

agree on the cards-  check the retail section for a good deal on the AT831's. 
Just something to keep in mind; it might be in your interest to get some mics with different caps selection to give you more options depending on the music/location/venue ect.  i.e. AT853's, which you can often find singles of on ebay, possibly getting 2 for under 100 w/ the card caps on em.  and then you can get other caps later on down the line. 

[Javier Cinakowski]

don't forget that if the clappers and talkers are in-front of you, it doesn't matter if you use cards or omnis.  The further you move back in the venue the more talkers and clappers will be in-front of you.  The reason to use a directional microphone in the back of the venue is to limit the amount of reflections and reverberation.  Granted a directional mic will help with the talkers to the back and sides....

[nameloc01]

The a.t. mics will clip at high spl's when they are not powered correctly. The low sens mod makes it possible to use them with a standard 2 wire bb or with a recorder that will supply "adequate" power. Either way..its not powering them correctly. They are 3 wire mics. Best ran with a.t. power modules or a suitable 3 wire power supply. Do it right..save yourself from speculation and problems.

[Javier Cinakowski]

The a.t. mics will clip at high spl's when they are not powered correctly. The low sens mod makes it possible to use them with a standard 2 wire bb or with a recorder that will supply "adequate" power. Either way..its not powering them correctly. They are 3 wire mics. Best ran with a.t. power modules or a suitable 3 wire power supply. Do it right..save yourself from speculation and problems.

Most people use the AT853's for stealth purposes.  The 1/8" connection is the most convienient and smallest connection for unobtrusive recording.  All SPL concerns can be eliminated in the 1/8" setup by using a 4.7k or 2.2k modification.  You might as well use a regular full sized condensor microphone if you are going to lug around phantom adapters or at power supplies.

In stealth situations I run AT853(2.2kmod) directly into a iRiver.  If I want to use the AT853 in open situations I would use the U873R bodies, which sound better than the 853rx.
I really don't see any situation where a phantom adapter or at power module is the best solution. 

You can continue down your path nameloc01, but I think your view points are based on an emotionally charged personal perspective, not solid logic.   

 

[nameloc01]

Well..i run them stealth exclusively too. I have never clipped..and guess what..? I didnt have to alter the sensitivity of my mics. The continuing arguement from yot "mod" users blows my mind. The facts are clear. If you run them the right way they will not clip and there will be no need to alter them. Period. Just because you are unable or afraid to bring in some larger gear..does not mean that your way (mod) is the correct way..because it isnt. If it was..dont you think they would come "modded" from the factory? C'mon. The only people who use your arguement are people selling the mod and the people who bought it. Not the a.t. dealers or engineers.

[Javier Cinakowski]

Well..i run them stealth exclusively too. I have never clipped..and guess what..? I didnt have to alter the sensitivity of my mics. The continuing arguement from yot "mod" users blows my mind. The facts are clear. If you run them the right way they will not clip and there will be no need to alter them. Period. Just because you are unable or afraid to bring in some larger gear..does not mean that your way (mod) is the correct way..because it isnt. If it was..dont you think they would come "modded" from the factory? C'mon. The only people who use your arguement are people selling the mod and the people who bought it. Not the a.t. dealers or engineers.

You are completely wrong. 

The sensitivity of your microphones is the same, if not worse than the modifications.  You have a 3-wire setup which has about the same sensitivity as the 4.7k mod.  The 2.2k actually has better sensitivity than the 3-wire setup.  The 1/8" unmodified is the most sensitive. 

These microphones, from the factory, are not designed for unobstrusive field recording.  They are desinged for installed sound applications.  Chris from Sound Professionals has been selling AT authorized 1/8" terminated 853's for years.  He is the factory dealer of 853 field recording mics for all practical purposes...

[dean]

Well..i run them stealth exclusively too. I have never clipped..and guess what..? I didnt have to alter the sensitivity of my mics. The continuing arguement from yot "mod" users blows my mind. The facts are clear. If you run them the right way they will not clip and there will be no need to alter them. Period. Just because you are unable or afraid to bring in some larger gear..does not mean that your way (mod) is the correct way..because it isnt. If it was..dont you think they would come "modded" from the factory? C'mon. The only people who use your arguement are people selling the mod and the people who bought it. Not the a.t. dealers or engineers.

While I can't comment on the mod, I have had a show brickwall on me back in the day I was running the 831 straight into my D7 - a Buckethead show.  I had my levels set very conservatively, and could see on my meters that I was nowhere near 0dB.  But the playback was sheer brickwalling except when B'head wasn't playing.

The spl's in that room clearly were beyond the capacity for the 831s.  Not sure if the "mod" mics would help, but I bought a PS2 and PM4's and that cleared that problem right up.  So it's not correct to say, "If you run them the right way they will not clip," because they can and they will.  If I were the only user to have this experience, that'd be one thing, but I'm not.

HTH.   

[nameloc01]

I'll tell ya what..just think whatever you want. There is no reason for me to even get this discussion anymore. I dont expect anyone that uses the mod to actually admit that it is in fact the incorrect way. Whatever.

[Will_S]

I'll tell ya what..just think whatever you want. There is no reason for me to even get this discussion anymore.

Good.  Then that means you will stop spreading misinformation, so...  +T

[Church-Audio]

Well..i run them stealth exclusively too. I have never clipped..and guess what..? I didnt have to alter the sensitivity of my mics. The continuing arguement from yot "mod" users blows my mind. The facts are clear. If you run them the right way they will not clip and there will be no need to alter them. Period. Just because you are unable or afraid to bring in some larger gear..does not mean that your way (mod) is the correct way..because it isnt. If it was..dont you think they would come "modded" from the factory? C'mon. The only people who use your arguement are people selling the mod and the people who bought it. Not the a.t. dealers or engineers.

The whole reason why I came up with this mod was so you could take a normal pair of mics and not need three wire to get the same performance out of them. When you use the mics three wire or with my mod you lose sensitivity. When you run them two wire unmodified you gain ( TWO WIRE ) 12 db over three wire and 10 db over my mod. The problem is not really about how much bias you feed the mics because the simple fact is there is no difference what so ever in measured performance between a 5 volt supply and 9 volts... Why dont they come modified in the first place is simple because AT did not want to use a 3.5 mm connector because they are not as reliable as a 3 pin mini xlr. And when your hanging the mics from a ceiling you want reliable The main advantage with my mod is with my preamp you can turn the mod on and off and get back that lost 10 db of gain from your mics when you need it. I came up with this mod because there were complaints that these mics could not handle high SPL so I did some experiments.. And came up with a method that works. It does work and I dare say its much more flexible then three wire.. And you can now use your mics with out my preamp or a battery box straight into a recorder like a edirol r-09 if need be and be able to record a show ( use 2.4k ) For 3.9 volts of bias that the edirol uses... And the performance will be very good. No need to argue about it. I am not making money from "helping" people get less distortion.
But I am making money for selling mics that DONT overload.....

Chris