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Offline DisturbedPyro

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edit: first test run!
« on: March 20, 2008, 08:57:51 PM »
ok, i got my iriver h320 all rockboxed up. and i looked through the iriver faqs about recording settings and set everything to what it said but i would just like to get further advice.

i will be stealthing at loud rock shows with an iriver h320 and chris church STC-11 mics and a BAT-2B. some recordings will be at smaller venues (local bands) but the real important ones will be at larger ones. so i want to know what settings would be best for my equipment and the type of show i am going to record. also, i had some questions as to what stuff is for that i didnt see an explanation of in the faqs. thanks again for all the help

1. i know the frequency deals with the sample rate. but does this effect the overal quality of the recording? i see in the faqs it is suggested to be set at 44.1. is this always the case? or to get the best recording possibvle should it be higher? if this depends, when should it be changed to the others?

2. should channel ever be changed to mono? or is stereo always good?

3. when setting the range of my clip meter displays, the faqs say -30dB & 0dB. will this be appropriate for my recording needs? ie - a loud rock show at large and small venues?

4. what should i set Gain Left and Gain Right at?

5. i hear that a lot of recordings sound like the bass is too high. how can this be avoided? the sound settings only changes when listening to playback right? it has no effect on recording

basically, should i change the settings in any way from what the faqs suggest for my equipment and the type of show i will be recording? thank you


well, i had my first test run last night! CCR concert, it was last minute, i didnt even know a couple of my friends were goin until like 2 hrs before we were to leave. it was only 10 bucks to get in and it was a good opportunity to test out my gear, so i went. im very pleased with the results, the quality is great. but there was no one around us so it wasnt a good test for talking, clapping, ect. you can clearly hear my voice and my two friends around me so i know that will be a lot more of a disturbance when people are all over the place yelling and everything. however, the band was very quiet so maybe at a louder show peoples voices wont show up as much. i guess ill have to see

only bad thing about the recording is its a little on the quiet side. i know i can boost the sound in editing programs but i dont want to distort the quality any by increasing the volume. is there any best way to increase the volume without distorting the sound?

heres a link to a clip from the opening local band: http://www.sendspace.com/file/gs49u5
« Last Edit: March 29, 2008, 11:43:41 AM by DisturbedPyro »
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Offline DisturbedPyro

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Re: iriver h320 (w/ rockbox) help with recording settings please
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2008, 10:25:21 AM »
mainly just need advice on 3-5 now
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Re: iriver h320 (w/ rockbox) help with recording settings please
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2008, 03:22:29 PM »
no one can adivse me? :-[
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Offline jonohull

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Re: iriver h320 (w/ rockbox) help with recording settings please
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2008, 05:06:04 PM »
3. You set your gain fairly low to start, and set them accordingly to how loud is dependent on venue. Since you're stealthing, just set your levels, and forget it.

4. Keep L and R the same. RockBox lets you change both at once.

5. You can take off the bass in post. Some people like a lot of bass, and you can't put in what you didn't record originally.

Offline Arni99

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Re: iriver h320 (w/ rockbox) help with recording settings please
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2008, 08:54:07 PM »
I would use trial and error to get a feel for your equipment. Go record a buddy's band or something a few times before you go out and record something important to you. Then you'll have an idea of what you need to do in a real situation.. Don't worry about bass levels etc... all that stuff can be mixed down in post using your music editing software.

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Offline DisturbedPyro

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Re: iriver h320 (w/ rockbox) help with recording settings please
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2008, 01:40:25 AM »
4. Keep L and R the same. RockBox lets you change both at once.
i know i should keep them the same. but what should i keep them the same at? is there a generic number i can set it at that will normally be good?

i wont know when i get in what to set it at anyway, so ill end up leaving them both at 0 if no one advises me specifically what to set them at. cuz i wont know even when i get in there what it should be

check the iriver FAQ´s:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,73139.0.html
yeah i said in the beggining i set everything to what it said in there. but it didnt say what to set left and right gain at. it just says: "Gain Left and Gain Right.  These are adjustable in .5 dB steps, and both channels can be altered together, or indepently, depending on whether both lines are highlighted, or just one." ok, thats all fine and good, but what do i set them at? and like i said, i wont know even when i get in to the show what to set them at. so ill end up leaving them both at 0 if no one advises me specifically what to set them at. cuz idk either way lol

I would use trial and error to get a feel for your equipment. Go record a buddy's band or something a few times before you go out and record something important to you. Then you'll have an idea of what you need to do in a real situation.. Don't worry about bass levels etc... all that stuff can be mixed down in post using your music editing software.

-rob
yeah i plan on doing a couple test runs. the problem is, even if something comes out bad, i wont know what setting was set improperly that made it come out that way. so i wont know what to change to fix the problem
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Offline taylordb

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Re: iriver h320 (w/ rockbox) help with recording settings please
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2008, 05:37:51 AM »
Your settings for left and right gain will depend on the band and the venue and will differ for each show.  The idea, in my opinion, is to get as large a gain as possible without clipping.  Since the decibel range will vary throughout the show you will need to set it so that it doesn't clip over the range of the show (and I would not continually change the gain during the show...that just sounds bad to me), so I set mine to average at about -6 and have found that for my mics and recorder that works pretty well.......but like others have said, this will be a trial and error for you.  Also since my mics are not matched (or don't seem to be), I set the levels for each of mine slightly different.
Until you go out there and do it, you'll never know.  I realize that you want everything to go perfectly and don't want a to blow a recording, but that's the only way to get to know your equipment.  Good luck!!

Offline sunjan

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Re: iriver h320 (w/ rockbox) help with recording settings please
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2008, 07:28:54 AM »
3. when setting the range of my clip meter displays, the faqs say -30dB & 0dB. will this be appropriate for my recording needs? ie - a loud rock show at large and small venues?
4. what should i set Gain Left and Gain Right at?
5. i hear that a lot of recordings sound like the bass is too high. how can this be avoided? the sound settings only changes when listening to playback right? it has no effect on recording

3. You can try this out at home. Just run some loud music on the stereo, stand in front of your speakers and adjust the display range until you're satisfied. Anyway, this won't influence the sound, just the visibility and detail of your meters.

4. I'm surprised nobody mentioned AGC-safety. Just crank the gain up to the max, and AGC-safety will carefully adjust down until you have the optimal gain. There are a few good threads here explaining how it works. Perfect if you're not sure the ideal settings for your particular rig. Once you've seen how AGC-safety works, you can imitate that behavior the next time you're taping. You'll want the best gain on both channels, so if you're badly positioned in the venue, you might have to boost one channel slightly to get them equal.

5. How to avoid too much bass in the first place?! Work with your feet! If you stand too close to the PA, or the venue is boomy, you have to walk around in the venue to find the sweet spot. Listen out when the DJ is spinning music before the band goes on, or during the support act.
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Offline DisturbedPyro

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Re: iriver h320 (w/ rockbox) help with recording settings please
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2008, 09:57:56 AM »
3. You can try this out at home. Just run some loud music on the stereo, stand in front of your speakers and adjust the display range until you're satisfied. Anyway, this won't influence the sound, just the visibility and detail of your meters.

4. I'm surprised nobody mentioned AGC-safety. Just crank the gain up to the max, and AGC-safety will carefully adjust down until you have the optimal gain. There are a few good threads here explaining how it works. Perfect if you're not sure the ideal settings for your particular rig. Once you've seen how AGC-safety works, you can imitate that behavior the next time you're taping. You'll want the best gain on both channels, so if you're badly positioned in the venue, you might have to boost one channel slightly to get them equal.
i want to try it out at home, but the problem is, i wont know what the meter should look like so i wont know how to change it if it is a problem. the bars jump back and forth during loud and soft parts, but what is it supposed to look like? how do i know when i got it where it should be?

i have AGC-safety (clip) on. but i still dont know what to set the left and right gain to. you said to put it up to the max? so at 48.0 dB? i saw in this thread: http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,76601.msg1021885.html#msg1021885 where gloco said "I typically never go past +20db of gain when running with a chris church bbox (no preamp) for loud concerts." and thats what im doing. i got the chris church BAT-2B and no preamp, and i will be at loud rock shows. so is +20db a good bet for both left and right gain?

you said "You'll want the best gain on both channels." yes, but how do i know what the best gain is? thats my problem, idk how to tell what this stuff should be like
« Last Edit: March 24, 2008, 10:17:09 AM by DisturbedPyro »
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Offline jonohull

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Re: iriver h320 (w/ rockbox) help with recording settings please
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2008, 12:30:56 PM »
Ok, the easiest thing to say is get the level meters as close to the end as you can without clipping during the loudest part of the show. You will need to watch and adjust gain to get this. Every venue/band is different, so there is no definitive answer to exactly what settings to set. If you NEED a starting point, try starting around +10 for loud shows, though you may need to move in either direction. A lot of people don't like AGCs, even the "safety."

Offline sunjan

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Re: iriver h320 (w/ rockbox) help with recording settings please
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2008, 05:22:24 AM »
3. i want to try it out at home, but the problem is, i wont know what the meter should look like so i wont know how to change it if it is a problem. the bars jump back and forth during loud and soft parts, but what is it supposed to look like? how do i know when i got it where it should be?

4. i have AGC-safety (clip) on. but i still dont know what to set the left and right gain to. you said to put it up to the max? so at 48.0 dB? i saw in this thread: http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,76601.msg1021885.html#msg1021885 where gloco said "I typically never go past +20db of gain when running with a chris church bbox (no preamp) for loud concerts." and thats what im doing. i got the chris church BAT-2B and no preamp, and i will be at loud rock shows. so is +20db a good bet for both left and right gain?

5. you said "You'll want the best gain on both channels." yes, but how do i know what the best gain is? thats my problem, idk how to tell what this stuff should be like

3. Again, how the meters look like is just for your own visual confirmation. If the meter shows enough detail for you, you're good to go. Fiddle around with the settings while playing music on your stereo until you're satisfied. Remember, this won't change the sound, just the look of the meters.

4. You found the right thread! Starting +20dB is a good yardstick, so you don't risk going into the digital gain range. AGC-safety will adjust each channel for you individually, so there's nothing to worry about. Anyway, it's just a matter of a few seconds until it adjusts the levels below clipping. As I said, if you do this during the support act, you're good to go!

5. If you're uncertain, plug in a set of headphones and monitor a test recording while taping at home. Let your ears be the judge. After running a test tape, transfer the WAV to your computer and look at the peaks in Audacity. Listen again. Does any clipping occur? Are the levels too low? No - then you're good to go!
Mics: A-51s LE, CK 930, Line Audo CM3, AT853Rx (hc,c,sc),  ECM 121, ECM 909A
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Offline DisturbedPyro

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Re: edit: first test run!
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2008, 11:45:58 AM »
well, i had my first test run last night! CCR concert, it was last minute, i didnt even know a couple of my friends were goin until like 2 hrs before we were to leave. it was only 10 bucks to get in and it was a good opportunity to test out my gear, so i went. im very pleased with the results, the quality is great. but there was no one around us so it wasnt a good test for talking, clapping, ect. you can clearly hear my voice and my two friends around me so i know that will be a lot more of a disturbance when people are all over the place yelling and everything. however, the band was very quiet so maybe at a louder show peoples voices wont show up as much. i guess ill have to see

only bad thing about the recording is its a little on the quiet side. i know i can boost the sound in editing programs but i dont want to distort the quality any by increasing the volume. is there any best way to increase the volume without distorting the sound?

heres a link to a clip from the opening local band: http://www.sendspace.com/file/gs49u5
« Last Edit: March 29, 2008, 04:20:46 PM by DisturbedPyro »
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Offline DisturbedPyro

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Re: edit: first test run!
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2008, 08:06:10 PM »
or, what advice can you give to make the recording louder to start with? should i bump up my gain even more and let the safety take care of it if its too high?
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Offline oscoastierob

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Re: edit: first test run!
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2008, 09:49:34 AM »
Damn that room sounded terrible (not your fault).. Best bet if you want even more gain is to add a preamp, although i doubt you'll need one for most concerts. Another option is to get closer to one of the stacks and run right in front of it.. But I don't think you'll need to do any of that in a decent sounding room with a little more volume..
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