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Author Topic: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?  (Read 38513 times)

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Offline nak700s

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Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #120 on: January 29, 2019, 02:30:15 PM »
I wasn't able to install it myself...unfortunately, IT would need to do it for me.  Next time he's around, I'll ask.  In the meantime, I just have to do my editing at home.
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Offline Papaphunk

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Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #121 on: February 14, 2019, 09:08:34 AM »
Trying to mix a SBD and AUD source together from the weekend shows...This can be maddening.

I've listened to the same joke in between songs 2 and 3 about 50 times this week trying to align these 2 files  :banging head:
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Offline capnhook

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Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #122 on: February 14, 2019, 09:32:14 AM »
TRIM, and Line up the starts exactly, and then stretch one of them.  You have to use V 2.1.0, or it won't work.  V 2.3.0 Change Speed is wrong, and will have you pulling your hair out for sure.


I can help you if you get stuck, if you want to WeTransfer the files.  Hang in there, you'll get it.

« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 09:41:02 AM by capnhook »
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Offline nak700s

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Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #123 on: February 14, 2019, 10:42:39 AM »
^^^ This is why I love TS so much ^^^

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Offline Papaphunk

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Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #124 on: February 19, 2019, 10:16:46 AM »
TRIM, and Line up the starts exactly, and then stretch one of them.  You have to use V 2.1.0, or it won't work.  V 2.3.0 Change Speed is wrong, and will have you pulling your hair out for sure.


I can help you if you get stuck, if you want to WeTransfer the files.  Hang in there, you'll get it.

Success! Thanks Capnhook  :coolguy:

https://archive.org/details/DonnaTheBuffalo2019-02-08.SBD.Matrix.Flac16
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Offline TheBishop

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Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #125 on: May 20, 2020, 12:44:47 PM »
I'm having a hell of a time right now...

The venue that I have been recording at has given me access to their soundboards so that I can mix them with my audience recordings.  Awesome!  So I take the SBD (recorded at 48k) and my AUD (also recorded at 48k) and load them in to Audacity v2.1 (I was using the newer version until I read this thread so I uninstalled that and installed 2.1).  I lined both of the recordings up at the 0:00:03.725 (178,791 samples) point and then find a common point towards the end of the show, for the soundboard this is 2:12:43.275 (382,237,217 samples) and for the audience this is 2:13:05.196 (383,289,428 samples).  I use morst's Audio Speed Converter spreadsheet:



and I get a % speed change of -0.27527696236864200000.  I put this in to Audacity (without the negative sign) and run the Change Speed effect on the audience recording:


This is where things get funky...

At 0:00:27 the recordings are off by 77 msecs
At 2:15:00 the recordings are off by 500 msecs
but at 1:08:00 the recordings are off by 6 seconds!

This is my first time trying to combine two sources and I'm going nuts.  I don't understand how they could be so close at either end of the show, but so far apart in the middle.

Offline morst

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Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #126 on: May 20, 2020, 02:31:24 PM »
Listen carefully for a gap or discontinuity in the (shorter?) source which gets "ahead".
If there are breaks in one source, then it will require separate synchronization for each portion

The other thing to watch with sources like this which have two different sample rates is that you are counting samples for only the source you wish to change. The 44.1 source won't have the same number of samples in the same length of music as the 48k source so you have to be consistent in order for my spreadsheet math to work.

I suggest using the numbers of samples which refer to the source you need to stretch or squash. The other one is just your guide to get the points marked. If that's not clear, you could sample rate convert one source to match the other, but I usually shun additional steps when possible.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2020, 02:33:34 PM by morst »
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Offline voltronic

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Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #127 on: May 20, 2020, 03:07:19 PM »
I think Bishop said both sources were 48 kHz.

Even with the same sample rate though, different converters in different boxes will drift relative to one another.  Being 6 seconds off after an hour isn't crazy, even if everything works as it is supposed to.  I have definitely seen it that bad before between two different 48 kHz sources.  The only way to avoid it is to  jam timecode on both devices and sync up in post, but that's not always an option.


Wouldn't the Change Tempo effect be a better choice than Change Speed, since the second one also changes pitch?
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Offline TheBishop

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Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #128 on: May 20, 2020, 03:21:41 PM »
Morst,

Damn, you're pretty good.  Something happens with the SBD source a little after 14 minutes in and it loses 6 seconds.  Now I've got to work out exactly where and how long it is.

**Edit:** Just found another 5 second break in the soundboard at 37 minutes.  I think there are going to be one or two more.  There was about 22 seconds of what I thought was drift between the two files to begin with.

Also, to confirm, they were both 48k files.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2020, 03:59:46 PM by TheBishop »

Offline morst

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Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #129 on: May 20, 2020, 05:38:51 PM »
I think Bishop said both sources were 48 kHz.

Even with the same sample rate though, different converters in different boxes will drift relative to one another.  Being 6 seconds off after an hour isn't crazy, even if everything works as it is supposed to.  I have definitely seen it that bad before between two different 48 kHz sources.  The only way to avoid it is to  jam timecode on both devices and sync up in post, but that's not always an option.

Wouldn't the Change Tempo effect be a better choice than Change Speed, since the second one also changes pitch?

HAHA yeah if I could have read more carefully I could have seen 48 for both... but I replied not having computed that.

Note that his timings show that he originally got it synced at the start and end, but then the middle was way off.
That's not normal, and is exactly what happened when I tried to mix sources on a bad DAT transfer so I recognized the issue.


as for CHANGE SPEED, yes, you need the pitch to change, although unless you have far better pitch than I do, you won't notice.
Change Tempo is for making advertisements where the announcer talks super fast but it's not like a chipmunk.
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Offline voltronic

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Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #130 on: May 20, 2020, 09:09:37 PM »
Note that his timings show that he originally got it synced at the start and end, but then the middle was way off.
That's not normal, and is exactly what happened when I tried to mix sources on a bad DAT transfer so I recognized the issue.
Well now it's my turn to have poor reading comprehension.  :cheers:

as for CHANGE SPEED, yes, you need the pitch to change, although unless you have far better pitch than I do, you won't notice.
Change Tempo is for making advertisements where the announcer talks super fast but it's not like a chipmunk.

I'm a bit confused by this.  Why would you want the pitch to change when you don't have to?  I get that it might be too small to notice, but still.  Are their artifacts introduced in Audacity's Change Tempo?  Other programs can do this with no ill effects.  I did this in Reaper earlier this week (admittedly a much more extensive app).
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Offline morst

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Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #131 on: May 21, 2020, 12:31:51 AM »
I'm a bit confused by this.  Why would you want the pitch to change when you don't have to?  I get that it might be too small to notice, but still.  Are their artifacts introduced in Audacity's Change Tempo?  Other programs can do this with no ill effects.  I did this in Reaper earlier this week (admittedly a much more extensive app).
OK mental exercise:

Let's imagine that the decks are not close to one another at all, but rather their speed is off by something radical like a factor of 2!
We know that the audio will be a full octave apart.
Surely we need the pitch to be changed when the conversion takes place.


Two machines with entirely different ideas of how long one second takes will require some kind of transformation, in order for their outputs to match.


I have no idea if Change Tempo has artifacts, it's not at all what I have ever attempted to use, as it is made for a totally different purpose than I want.
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Offline TheBishop

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Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #132 on: May 21, 2020, 02:40:45 PM »
Welp, turns out after identifying those SBD dropouts everything lines up nicely and I don't even have to do a "Change Speed".  Hopefully the other files that they sent me don't have similar issues, but I've got a bad feeling.

Offline TheBishop

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Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #133 on: May 22, 2020, 03:02:03 PM »

Offline morst

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Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #134 on: May 22, 2020, 08:55:27 PM »
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