Topic: Quirky bar/band layout; ideas wanted

[BradM]

I've been to a few shows at the Avant-Garde Bar in Ottawa, and I'm trying to figure out if there's a better way to set up in it. It's a small place, half below street level, and they don't have a PA. One of the acts I've been seeing there is the duo of Linsey Wellman and Mike Essoudry. Linsey plays horns (bass clarinet, alto sax, soprano sax) and Mike plays drums and clarinet; musically, it's free- or avant-garde-jazz.

The stage is the bit under the windows in this picture:



(Note that when bands are playing, the stools aren't there.) Because there's no PA, I try to get close, but the way they set up makes it tricky: Mike sets up his kit in the back-right (as you face the stage) corner of the stage, facing diagonally across the stage (as opposed to straight forward), and Linsey sets up near the front of the stage, about 1/3 of the way from the left end to the right end.

What I've been doing is setting up my Oktava MC-012s (cardioid) on my big stand over against/near the left wall, about head height, but angled downward (from above the performers, sort of), with the mics in X/Y with the centre line going diagonally across the stage, so that Linsey and Mike are in line, with Mike "behind" Linsey.

The recordings sound pretty good, but they did a neat soprano sax (Linsey) / clarinet (Mike) duet part last week that would be awesome if it were in stereo, but it isn't, since the two horns were in exactly the same place in the mics' stereo image.

I've thought about bringing a small stand I have, and setting it up at the stage lip, about 1/3 of the way from the right end (mid-way between the performers), again (probably) using X/Y, but that might place the stand close to the bottom of the stairs, so there's a chance that anybody coming in or going out might get tripped up; as well, I wonder if the sterero separation might be too harsh (because the drums will dominate the left channel, and the horns the right).

So far, the bar has been fine with me recording there, as have the musicians, so I think that as long as I stay out of the way, I can do pretty much whatever I want. Does anybody have any ideas as to stand and mic placement in this situation?

Aloha,
Brad

[ArchivalAudio]

hmmmm
I noticed 40+ views and no comments...
sound like a nice groove
and a cool bar...

hopefully they have curtains in front of the glass at shows?
glass is hugely reflective, though that could help if there is no monitors or PA

I 'm a big fan of ORTF for your cards on a small stand
I like the "image" ORTF achieves especially onstage

its always nice to have the drums in the center of your stereo array, but it sound like this might be difficult

do you have omni caps?
a nice 8' spread on the front of the stage might sound very sweet

short stands would be great
!

in some cases drums on one side and horn on the other can sound okay...

can you hang the mics?  out just in-front of the stage? get there way early  like before happy hour and hang them?
you could run ORTF with the mics centered on the drums...


or a stand in front of the stage on a table top again centered like you say drums center, with horn in front....?


good luck
may some others can chime in and give much different ideas...

-- Ian

[NOLAfishwater]

close mic XY and then mix it down so that some of the left channel bleeds over to the right and vice versa.

[BradM]

Thanks for the responses, guys. I went to see a bass/keys/guitar/drums quartet last night (no PA, just amps), and tried something different: I just put a spring clamp on the table closest to the stage, about DFC, maybe 2' or 3' from the stage. The keys and bass amps were in the back-left corner of the stage (as you face it), the drums in the back right corner, and the guitar amp a bit right of the centre of the stage. I splayed the mics so that one pointed at the bass and keys amps, and one at the drum kit; this gave an angle of almost 90 degrees (and a separation of nearly 30cm, I think), but if they were more splayed than that, their axes would have been pointing at the walls/stairs. I figured that in that situation, it'd be better to have the axes of the mics pointing at the main sources of sound, even if it meant I was using a non-standard mic placement.

I'm listening to it now, and it sounds really good. The drums are hard right, the keys/bass hard left, and the guitar just to the right of the centre, just as it was in the club.

Next week, there's another quartet playing there: cello (with effects run through an amp), vibes, horns, drums (with the horn player and the drummer being the duo I talked about in the first post), so if I can get the same setup, I'll try it for the quartet.

Aloha,
Brad