Topic: replacing gear for radio interviews - need advice

[kf]

We've got an old Fostex hard disk recorder that has served us well for remote recordings for radio.  We've used it with a Shure WH30 headset mic and Roland pre-amp with good success.  We're replacing the recorder and the preamp.

The people we record are typically pretty quiet so the preamp is necessary.  It looks like we're going to purchase a Sound Devices MM-1 to use with whatever flash recorder we land on.  Wanted to get your opinion on some things.  Here's what we'd like to know:
1. Does the good pre amp lesson the need for good pres on the recorder?
2. What flash recorder has the best pres for the work we're doing? (lowest noise at highest gain)
3. If it were you, what would you combo of gear would you buy and why... given the type of recording we do?

Thanks

Kent

[digifish_music]

The people we record are typically pretty quiet so the preamp is necessary.  It looks like we're going to purchase a Sound Devices MM-1 to use with whatever flash recorder we land on.  Wanted to get your opinion on some things.  Here's what we'd like to know:
1. Does the good pre amp lesson the need for good pres on the recorder?
2. What flash recorder has the best pres for the work we're doing? (lowest noise at highest gain)
3. If it were you, what would you combo of gear would you buy and why... given the type of recording we do?

Thanks

Kent

1. I assume you are most worried about noise/hiss then yes absolutely. Better yet, if the flash-recorder has a good line-in option. I use a MixPre with a R09HR for quietude recording and it's superb (IMO). The MM-1 is (as you would know) a single channel version of the MixPre. BTW: the MM-1 only has XLR out so you will probably need an XLR to mini-jack adapter cable as all the flash-recorders I mention below don't have XLR input.

2. If you are using the MM-1 then this requirement is somewhat moot. In this case you will not need to raise the internal gain of the flash-recorder at all. You will set it to a fairly low level and let the MM-1 do all the work. Or better yet, you will be using the line-level input on the flash-recorder.

3. The down-side to using an MM-1 and Flash-Recorder is that it's a two box-solution and you will have a few extra cables and two sets of batteries to maintain/monitor. However if you get a good bag for it with the right pockets, then it need not be too messy.

I think you are on the right track however. That is you are not going to find a single-box solution (@ < $2000) with the quality/low-noise/gain of an MM-1 + line-in to a flash recorder.

As I have said, I use a Sound Devices MixPre. I would seriously consider getting a MixPre for interview work as two-mic interviews and stereo recording can be very useful in the field. A MixPre + R09HR cost ~$1000. BTW: if you can afford a SD702 (@ ~$1900) then I'd consider that too.



One reason I have stayed with the MixPre + flash recorder is that I can break it down into stealth mode (just use the R09HR with internal mics or binaurals) for recording in public places or add the MixPre when I need quiet gain and better quality mics. The SD702 doesn't cut it for stealth

Assuming you are using the MM-1, some good flash-recorder options are...

Edirol R09HR
Marantz PMD620
Olympus LS-10
Sony PCM-D50
Tascam DR-1

BTW: This site has a nice comparison of features and inboard/outboard mics etc...

http://www.wingfieldaudio.com/portable-recorder-noise.html#samples

and specs...

http://www.wingfieldaudio.com/compare-portable-recorders.html

digifish

[gearscout]

Kent,

You don't give us a target budget, which can be very important. 

As you state, you want advice geared "given the type of recording we do..." but you haven't described the actual use of the equipment.  You mentioned you are using a headset mic...which makes me think this is all being done by your own reporter rather than interviewing subjects. 

1.  A pre-amplifier's output will be plugged into the LINE INput of the recorder.  The recorder's pre-amps are bypassed.  So, yes.
2.  Best flash recorder pre-amps?  Digifish has outlined some of them.  You can spend more money!
3.  If this is monaural recording, I would be tempted to consider just a good flash recorder like the PCM-D50 and a Sennheiser Shotgun Microphone like the ME66/K6 combo with all of the trimmings like a handgrip, shockmount and deadcat.  If it's stereo, multi-channel recording, then a mixer/pre-amp into any of the aforementioned recorders.

Hope that helps!

[kf]

The person being interviewed wears the headset.  Our voices are never recorded.  The folks we record are from a minority culture and typically are quiet... and often look down rather than make eye contact.  We need to be able to hear them and not background noise.  However, it's not often that we can record in a totally controlled environment... so we use the Shure WH30 headset which has a good pickup pattern for what we do.  It also keeps the mic in the same proximity to the mouth at all times.  People forget they have it on and are not distracted by having to try and remember to look toward or speak into a mic.

Question #3 is regardless of budget... if you had your choice of equipment what would you get... how would you approach it.  Sounds like the suggestion of SD702 is a good one.  We could eliminate the preamp altogether.  We're interested in being as mobile as possible.

Thanks

Kent

[flintstone]

The new Tascam DR-1 flash recorder has a 1/4-inch (7mm) phone jack input for mono recording.  The larger jack is more durable and makes better electrical contact (hence less extraneous added noise) than the smaller 1/8-inch (3.5mm) mic input jack used in most consumer-grade gear.

The latest firmware for the DR-1 has a "lower-than-low" mic sensitivity mode that makes for very quiet recordings, useful for situations when you can place the mics close, or when the subject of the recording is very loud (a rock concert, a steam locomotive, etc.).

The DR-1 is a bargain, selling for $220 or less.  For example, B&H Photo Video offers the DR-1 with 4GB flash memory card for $209 after a $15 mail-in-rebate.  

If you need a portable unit that provides phantom power to microphones, then take a look at the Fostex FR-2LE or Marantz PMD660 with Oade "ambient" modification.

Flintstone

[gearscout]

KF,

The SD 702 does look pretty promising. 

The Shure WH30 seems your perfect mic solution -- and it requires 11 - 50 volts of phantom power.  The 702 has it.  Most of the compact recorders do not.

You could pair any of the smaller recorders with Shure's FP-23 single channel pre-amp and get both a rugged, battery operated field unit and your phantom power plus excellent sensitivity and low noise.

I would prefer the solution in one box.  ;-) 

But there are plenty of options available to you.  I'm sure others on the forum will have useful tips...

Good luck!

[digifish_music]

Question #3 is regardless of budget... if you had your choice of equipment what would you get... how would you approach it.  Sounds like the suggestion of SD702 is a good one.  We could eliminate the preamp altogether.  We're interested in being as mobile as possible.

Thanks

Kent

Hi Kent, given your extra information I would definitely recommend the SD702 for your application. It was made for this kind of work and has some of the worlds quietest preamps.  The self-noise from the headset mic will overwhelm any preamp noise from the SD702 (MM-1 or MixPre for that matter). So -

Plusses:

1. Professional quality ruggedized design.
2. Small size, single-box solution
3. World-class 'quiet' preamps with high gain available.
4. High resale value if you change your mind (highly sort after in the 2nd hand market due to 1-3 above).

Minuses:

1. Uses Sony Video camera batteries, which means you can't just pop into the local shop and grab a pack of AA's. So you may want two battery packs for it if you are away from wall-power for any length of time.
2. Is about +$1000 more expensive than the MM-1 + Flash-recorder options.
3. May intimidate your minorities if they can see it (looks like a space-ship flight-deck when running?).

digifish 

[ambo]

Sorry to barge in here, but i wanted to ask digifish how he liked the new R09, as otherwise we use the same gear. I'm using the older R09.
to the original poster, I would second the mixpre/MP2 preamp. Very rugged and quiet. As for other recorders, maybe the new Sony or Olympus? Plus a mixpre.

OOps, just saw the 2nd part of the new R09 thread which answers the above question. Please ignore me. Thank you.

[rastasean]

I would love to hear the recordings you make and have made. So no one from your radio show is on the recording, how do you ask questions and do interviews?

I know you are already settled for the SoundDevices 702, which is perfect for you, but I have seen many reporters carrying around nothing more than sony minidisc recorders and your regular run of the mill electro voice 635A and getting great recordings. I suppose this is all how you record and your situation. I would consider something for a backup just in case the people are a little freaked out by the huge box. Plus, the edirol r-09hr is POCKET SIZE. That is perfect.

Just ideas here.

Let us know what you wind up getting and link us to the audio recordings!

-peace

[rastasean]

1. I assume you are most worried about noise/hiss then yes absolutely. Better yet, if the flash-recorder has a good line-in option. I use a MixPre with a R09HR for quietude recording and it's superb (IMO). The MM-1 is (as you would know) a single channel version of the MixPre. BTW: the MM-1 only has XLR out so you will probably need an XLR to mini-jack adapter cable as all the flash-recorders I mention below don't have XLR input.

digifish

Which mics are these? Your AT3031s?

[digifish_music]

BTW: FYI B&H just posted this summary of headset-mics...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/find/newsLetter/Head-WornMics.jsp

[kf]

I would love to hear the recordings you make and have made. So no one from your radio show is on the recording, how do you ask questions and do interviews?

I know you are already settled for the SoundDevices 702, which is perfect for you, but I have seen many reporters carrying around nothing more than sony minidisc recorders and your regular run of the mill electro voice 635A and getting great recordings. I suppose this is all how you record and your situation. I would consider something for a backup just in case the people are a little freaked out by the huge box. Plus, the edirol r-09hr is POCKET SIZE. That is perfect.

Just ideas here.

Let us know what you wind up getting and link us to the audio recordings!

-peace

Here ya go: http://www.withoutreservation.com/singlearchive.php?podcast_id=149&submit=Go

These are sit-down interviews and most people relax pretty quickly.  They forget about the gear and focus on telling their stories.  We take notes, ask questions, and then insert their answers back into the bigger story.  It works great and everyone is happy with the results... though not everyone likes what they're saying.

So, let's say the SD702 is out of reach (it is right now)... what we purchase now can be used for backup later.
What would you guys do if you couldn't get a 702?
What Preamp and why?
Flash Recorder?
We will be using the Shure WH30 headset mic.  It works great for this application.

Thanks

[digifish_music]

So, let's say the SD702 is out of reach (it is right now)... what we purchase now can be used for backup later.
What would you guys do if you couldn't get a 702?
What Preamp and why?
Flash Recorder?
We will be using the Shure WH30 headset mic.  It works great for this application.

Thanks

The MM-1 (since it is made for field work, has phantom that you need and is a world-class quiet preamp) + Edirol R09HR + One of these.

TOTAL ~ $720 (I will suggest that this combo will be audibly indistinguishable from a SD702 @ $1900).

BTW: I have put up some more MixPre + R09HR recordings at Freesound...

http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=57608

http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=57668

http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=57669

http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=57613

digifish.

[kf]

Thanks for the info.  On this particular recorder (R-09HR), how much of a liability is there using the stereo mini connection into the recorder?  I'm used to XLR connections and like the solid connectivity of them.  Does the mini connector fit tightly in the jack?  How do you safeguard your connections while recording?

Got a couple more technical questions:

When using a line level out of the MM-1, will all the top flash recorders provide the same results?  (I'm assuming the recorder pres are bypassed here)
Are there liabilities in using recorder pres along with the MM-1?

Thanks

[Unitmonster]

My journalist friends are all big fans of the Fostex FR2-LE (http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/pro_products/fr2le.shtml) and have been totally satisfied with teh noise level on the pre's.  IMO (as a new user of the box), it's a good all-in-one solution that won't set you back what the SD702 will. Not as portable as the R-09 but if that's not so much of an issue I'd say it's worth investigating.  There are also people here who can do mods to further upgrade the deck should you feel it's needed, but based upon the feedback from friends using it at the BBC and elsewhere, it's really not needed.