Topic: sd 788 -first look

[oleg]

from firs  test recording made today ( made it with gefells ,schoepses and few large diaphragma chinese ) i can say that these one of the hell preamps , much transparent then it on 744

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

cool.  can you post some samples?  how about some pictures?

[boojum]

Oleg -

Bip, bip.  I have gotten this response from folks who have heard recordings with a 722 and a 788.  Seems they like the 788 as "sounding a lot better."  Who knows what that means, but I think the 788 is a bit liver and clearer?  Sounds better.  That's it.  Is yours a loaner or did you take the plunge?

My complaints are the bag is too small and the TA3 connectors for inputs 5 - 8.  Other than that it's a nice piece of hardware.

[oleg]

it sound more transparent , less low end
the biggest problem as usual with sd the pots to close
i dont see any problem with mini as inputs , it save space to keep the recorder small
the real bad thing for people who use it for what it was made for ( audio for film ) . the output matrix which sucks , no real compare for  -
devas .

[boojum]

For my use, remote audio recording (music) it is all OK.  I am just not thrilled about the TA3F's but I suppose I could learn to love them.  For the money it is hard to beat.  Did you buy yours or is it a demo?

[John Willett]

The 48kHz sampling rate put me off the 788 - so I have gone for the Nagra VI which does 24/96.

[oleg]

For my use, remote audio recording (music) it is all OK.  I am just not thrilled about the TA3F's but I suppose I could learn to love them.  For the money it is hard to beat.  Did you buy yours or is it a demo?

thats my

[scb]

has anyone asked sound devices if there's actually any difference in the preamps?

[trajhip2000]

has anyone asked sound devices if there's actually any difference in the preamps?

from the SD site:

"The 788T introduces a new microphone preamp and analog-to-digital topology to Sound Devices. This new circuit improves the dynamic range of the microphone inputs beyond the performance of the class-leading 702, 702T, 722 and 744T recorders.

The preamps in the two and four-channel 7-Series (702, 702T, 722, and 744T) use discrete transistors (high-quality, old-school, high-current op-amps). These are great sounding preamps connected to a quality, low-noise analog-to-digital converter chipset. Performance versus power consumption broke new ground when these products were introduced, and have yet to be bested in their class in real-world measurements…until the 788T.

The preamps in the 788T were designed in 2008 with the latest topologies and electronic parts. The 788T mic preamps outperform the preamps on the two and four channel recorders, while drawing less power. The 788T has improved dynamic range, resulting largely from an analog-to-digital converter with several dB more dynamic range. While this A/D chip draws slightly more power than those in the two/four channel 7-Series, the preamp circuitry draws less than the earlier recorders. Additionally, these new preamps are fully digitally controlled. There is no analog audio running through a pot like in the old designs. This gives several benefits, including precise gain matching between channels, more control over the limiter, and a much more dB-linear gain curve. It also provides for hooks to control levels electronically, if required in the future.

Because the 788T has eight microphone preamps, its inputs can draw more overall power than the inputs on the two and four channel recorders. When not using inputs the front-panel gain control can be used to turn individual microphone preamps and A/D circuits off, increasing battery runtime.

No, the 702, 702T, 722, and 744T cannot be upgraded. The 788T is a clean-sheet design with an entirely new analog architecture that is not retrofittable to the smaller recorders."

[Carlos E. Martinez]

The 48kHz sampling rate put me off the 788 - so I have gone for the Nagra VI which does 24/96.

That's interesting. I hadn't realized SD topped the 788 sampling at 48KHz. Why did they do that?

[Ozpeter]

That's interesting. I hadn't realized SD topped the 788 sampling at 48KHz. Why did they do that?

It seems primarily aimed at video / film production where that's the standard.  For any normal use it should suffice.  If recording bats, it might struggle.

[Carlos E. Martinez]

That's interesting. I hadn't realized SD topped the 788 sampling at 48KHz. Why did they do that?

It seems primarily aimed at video / film production where that's the standard. 

The competition, like the Deva, have not such limits. Maybe SD knows something about how standards will be in the future that we don't.

In any case, It maybe something that can be changed through firmware in the future.

[flintstone]

I asked the folks at the Sound Devices booth at the NAB show in April about the decision to limit quantization to 24/48.  The answer was that they weren't satisfied with the stability of recording 8 channels at 24/96.  They said they may be able to tweak the firmware enough to offer higher data rates in the future.

My personal "conspiracy theory" explanation is that if the 788 did 24/96 with 8 channels, then sales of the 744t would simply stop.

Flintstone

[Carlos E. Martinez]

My personal "conspiracy theory" explanation is that if the 788 did 24/96 with 8 channels, then sales of the 744t would simply stop.

A VERY strong reason. 

[ghellquist]

My personal "conspiracy theory" explanation is that if the 788 did 24/96 with 8 channels, then sales of the 744t would simply stop.

And why on earth should that be any problem? They probably have as much margin on the 788 as on the other 7xx machines. And very, very, very few ever buys more than one machine. And as there is a small group of people really wanting more than 48k, they could easily reach them if the machines had it. These would probably change from other 7xx-s or going over from other brands. (One, John Willet has several times stated here on this forum that the limit to 48k is a major factor in his decision to go with another brand).

My guess (and guess it is) is that the explanation is exactly that the machine is not 100% stable at 24/96 in every configuration with 8 channels right now. This has to do with the speed of the built-in processor and could perhaps be tweaked with better software. The actual DA converters runs up to 192 kHz. But, they made an expensive mistake in the early phases of 7xx machines -- promising recording to external firewire HD och DVD. Every machine made in the beginning was taken home to SD and updated with new hardware, without cost for the buyer, mine was one of them. So, I believe they have decided to not ever again promise anything not totally proved. So, no promises right now about more than 48k. The simple way might be to forsake the "recording simultaneosly to three storages" that the machine does today. Yes -- it records to internal hard disc, CF card and external firewire hard disc at the same time. This could possibly be a bit difficult to do at 96kHz.

By the way, the quality of the SD boxes as 44.1/24 is for just about every purpose well into quite good enough. I personally generally run classical recordings (symphony orchestras, pianos, choirs aso) at 44.1/24 since the difference in going higher is soo small. But your mileage may vary as they say. This to save me time (lazy me) in making CD-s later at home, a bit of hard-disc space as well. My software easily does the conversion (I run Samplitude Pro, a gem when it comes to handling on-location recordings and making CD-s from them) but it takes a little bit of extra time.

Gunnar