Topic: New TS-2 Preamp ... under development (part II)

[fivefishdiy]

hey fivefish
just wondering what type of connector you put on your preamp for dc power.
thanks
ed

This one...


Switchcraft DC locking jack

[beeco]

If I remember right, 2 channels with PP ON, using 2 condenser mics (CAD model, 8ma each), all VU meters lit up, the power consumption was 3Watts @ 12VDC.... so that's 250mA.

From there, it goes down to 1.5W if PP is OFF and VU meters are also OFF. 

So at 9Volts, doing the math will be 3w/9V = 333mA   (or 166mA if PP is OFF and VU meters off)
Will try to get actual readings for 9V one of these days.

Forgive me if I've got the math all wrong here, but my 9v DVD battery says its capacity is 5400 mAh, so 5400/333 = about 16 hours of run time.  Is that correct?  I'm an idiot when it comes to electricity math... 

[fivefishdiy]

I think that's about right.

Turn off the VU meters to squeeze more life out of the battery.  If you're using dynamic mics, then you can turn off Phantom power too... so that will give about 32hrs.

[beeco]

16 hours of run time, with phantom power and VU meters on, is pretty substantial.  I'd run out of juice before the pre did at that rate.  Wish my other gear was that efficient.

[jerryfreak]

my bad, i see your 12V/1A specs are for the wallwart, not the unit itself

If I remember right, 2 channels with PP ON, using 2 condenser mics (CAD model, 8ma each), all VU meters lit up, the power consumption was 3Watts @ 12VDC.... so that's 250mA.

From there, it goes down to 1.5W if PP is OFF and VU meters are also OFF. 

So at 9Volts, doing the math will be 3w/9V = 333mA   (or 166mA if PP is OFF and VU meters off)
Will try to get actual readings for 9V one of these days.

[fivefishdiy]

No problem.

The difference in price between a 500mA, 1Amp and 1.5Amp wall wart are just a few cents.  It's better for the wallwart to be over-spec than the power requirements of the load.

[Todd R]

Any further thoughts on whether you'll make this available in kit form?

[fivefishdiy]

Seriously thinking about it... anything that will save me from doing the work  

But the thought of handholding and supporting users who may botched the assembly (cold solder, wrong component soldered) and the big number of parts to pack is holding me back. 

To be honest, IF... big IF... I offer a kit, the price difference/savings wouldn't be huge... because labor costs only got switched from assembly to packing/organizing and support.

[willndmb]

i personally couldn't do a kit myself and i would be questioning the skills of others if i was to see one for resale
in the back of my mind i would wonder if it was a kit and if it was put together 100%

on the flip side i can totally see it being a good and fun thing to do for those that know how

[Chuck]

I'd love to see this pre-amp in kit form.
I like the idea of knowing each and every part of the circuit and knowing that I put it together.

[fivefishdiy]

Serial#s won't be etched on the case. There is space on the PCB for me to write it down.  Why? Is it important?  Maybe I'll just sign and autograph it, HAHAHHAH..

Maybe it will become collector's item in the future, HAHAHA   At the way things are progressing, it's possible to become collectors item. Me personally building units is not something I'd like to do long term. I can't wait to get the 1st batch done and move on to something else.

Honestly, I'm finding that I am NOT enjoying manufacturing these units.... regardless of the price tag.  It's a lot of work.  I like doing prototypes, planning, R&D and testing a new design, but not the work of mass producing. 

I looked at third party companies doing the builds for me, but the high asking price of US manufacturers, the low volume numbers I'm looking, and my low asking/selling price will leave me no profit... everything will just go into paying the factory that will build it. Or I can build it myself, not pay anybody, but that sucks away my time and energy.  I don't know what to do.   Maybe outsource labor to China.... or increase the selling price.

Ignore me...I'm just whining and thinking out aloud here.  Lots of stuff going at work and personal life. I am tired.

So yes, offering these as kits are becoming very attractive day by day.

[chris319]

Honestly, I'm finding that I am NOT enjoying manufacturing these units.... regardless of the price tag.  It's a lot of work.  I like doing prototypes, planning, R&D and testing a new design, but not the work of mass producing.

I understand where you are coming from. I have thought about doing similar things and have decided I would rather be in the audio business than the manufacturing business. If I purchased an item like this from you, I would be happy with a PC board, or even just the artwork for a PC board, a case and faceplate, a schematic, an operating manual, assembly instructions, and a parts list which I could have filled at Mouser. It would shift the burden of rounding up the parts and possibly making the PC board from you to the user.

[Chuck]

Serial#s won't be etched on the case. There is space on the PCB for me to write it down.  Why? Is it important?  Maybe I'll just sign and autograph it, HAHAHHAH..

Maybe it will become collector's item in the future, HAHAHA   At the way things are progressing, it's possible to become collectors item. Me personally building units is not something I'd like to do long term. I can't wait to get the 1st batch done and move on to something else.

Honestly, I'm finding that I am NOT enjoying manufacturing these units.... regardless of the price tag.  It's a lot of work.  I like doing prototypes, planning, R&D and testing a new design, but not the work of mass producing. 

I looked at third party companies doing the builds for me, but the high asking price of US manufacturers, the low volume numbers I'm looking, and my low asking/selling price will leave me no profit... everything will just go into paying the factory that will build it. Or I can build it myself, not pay anybody, but that sucks away my time and energy.  I don't know what to do.   Maybe outsource labor to China.... or increase the selling price.

Ignore me...I'm just whining and thinking out aloud here.  Lots of stuff going at work and personal life. I am tired.

So yes, offering these as kits are becoming very attractive day by day.

One reason to add a serial number or other marking would be to mark units you have put together vs. DIY projects, if you do sell some as DIY.
A unit that you put together and tested would be preferable to some buyers vs a unit someone else put together and re-sold. There's no real quailty control for the DIY units.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Serial#s won't be etched on the case. There is space on the PCB for me to write it down.  Why? Is it important?  Maybe I'll just sign and autograph it, HAHAHHAH..

Most products get revised at some point, especially after field testing.  Components also change due to supplier issues, etc.  Maybe something as minor as a change in the solder or the type of wire..  Serial numbers allow version tracking.  Even just knowing whether it is an early or late unit.

At the way things are progressing, it's possible to become collectors item. Me personally building units is not something I'd like to do long term. I can't wait to get the 1st batch done and move on to something else.

Honestly, I'm finding that I am NOT enjoying manufacturing these units.... regardless of the price tag.  It's a lot of work.  I like doing prototypes, planning, R&D and testing a new design, but not the work of mass producing. 

Not surprising.  R&D is fun.  It is easy to be in the mood for that..  But long-term customer support, man, that's tough... A lot of folks think "actives" are easy to do.  And in some ways they are.  But the customer support is a bear.  That's why I have a lot of respect for folks like Nick and how he stands behind the nbox and is there for his customers.  Same for Chris Church, except he has even more products and customers to support.  Being there for your customers, sustainably, is hard.  Especially when you mostly do it alone and don't have someone to punt to when you need a break.

And just think, you don't even have customers dogging you for support yet.  Just imagine when you decide to disappear for a few days of vacation and people are posting messages asking 'hey, where's fivefish, I've been emailing him and can't get in touch. Has anyone heard from him?  Did he disappear?  I really need this connector fixed before my show!! I'll be so pissed if I can't get this fixed before the show!!  If you're going to sell a product you have got to be around to support it!!  This sucks!!'

I looked at third party companies doing the builds for me, but the high asking price of US manufacturers, the low volume numbers I'm looking, and my low asking/selling price will leave me no profit... everything will just go into paying the factory that will build it. Or I can build it myself, not pay anybody, but that sucks away my time and energy.  I don't know what to do.   Maybe outsource labor to China.... or increase the selling price.

Slime Devices hand soldered the first 50 or 60 slimp3's (the original squeezebox, I still have mine).  There were some good pics up on their website but unfortunately they're now restricted.  After that they had the boards wave soldered.

With a product like this you really really need to guard against burn-out because it is probably more of a When not If.  Soldering the boards is one area where you can offload a lot of drudgery and save time and energy for the important stuff.  I wish you the best of luck.

[fivefishdiy]

Thanks for the comments.

mshilarious: I'm already working on a new board design with SMT parts, bigger board to PCB mount the XLRs, and basically anything to save time and labor.  And yes, I find SMT labor costs are cheaper than TH labor costs.

freelunch: I'll keep a list, good idea. 

And just think, you don't even have customers dogging you for support yet.

Not true. I've been in the kit business for 1-1/2 years now, sold A LOT of kits and supported several hundred customers via my forum and email. So it's not like I'm new to the game.  And I think kits are even more harder to support, asnswering build questions, customer problems, troubleshooting via email, etc...

Re: TS-2
My original plan is to hand solder the first few units, and take notes of where the major inefficiencies are in the assembly. Little things like connection wires and flying leads that is not an issue doing one unit, becomes major and takes a lot of time when doing several units.

So one of the major changes I'll be doing is using PCB mounted XLRs in the future, and finding a pin & socket solution to mate the switchboard with the mainboard.  My distributor representative dropped off personally at my house some catalogs to look at.

Soldering the parts is not the hard/time consuming part for me.

It's stripping wires and putting them in each hole that slows me down and is a pain.  (And I'm already using Thermal wire strippers, which already saves me a lot of work.)  If I can reduce or eliminate this wiring part, I'm going to be better.