Topic: Reducing loud applause sections in SF9

[notsofast]

I just recorded an accoutistic classical show at a small venue and had to run my mic trim at 90% of capacity to capture the muwic. When the audience applauded the meter goes from a -6 peak to + 12 and scares small children and my wife when listening. I am very happy with the music but the shock of the applause is annoying.

How do I reduce, compress, limit the loud applause in SF9? Any  thoughts on how I can even the outputs without jeopordizing the music?

Options:
- I can edit out the applause, may be my best.
- Compress or limit, but have tried some basic SF9 "wavehammer" but found I was getting some "pumping and breathing", which I did not like.
- ?

Looking for advice, all help appreciated.

Tim

[keith]

I'm not familiar with SF since about version 4, but does SF9 have the capability to do automation?  An automated fader would let you run the gain down for the applause and then back up at the end of the applause.  I do that in Cubase for this exact same situation.

-Keith

[EarlyMorningRain]

I have SF8  myself, but here is what I do (which may or may not be the most practical solution):

I highlight the applause sections, one at a time (so if there's a 100 songs, this gets to be a PITA), the crowd clapping is usually not more than 10 seconds long or so, but then do this:

Process // Volume // and move that slider bar to whatever (db level) I'm after, in this instance, move it below the 0db mark. So I lower the volume (attenuate in other words) of the highlighted area by (for ex) -3db. If too much, undo and try again, if not enough, repeat the process.

Now I've heard from others of a feature called "Envelope", something I think SF has, that may work better in this situation.  From my understanding, this feature will give you the same results (basically), but it gives you more of a gradual increase/decrease of the volume (of that highlighted section), rather than just lowering the overall volume.

Others can chime in tell me I'm off my rocker if you wish
 

[notsofast]

I am grateful for the suggestions, as I said I tried compression and hated the results. I am OK with a manual approach as stated. Only ~ 20 tracks to deal with.

As you can see for me the post editing word is a new learning experience, all help and guidance is appreciated.

Tim

[javertim]

I always do a combination of enveloping and hard limiting, usually in that order.  If you only use the hard limiter, the effect is quite unpleasant (even if it is only applause), especially if you reduce the dB level by a lot.  Therefore, I envelope as much as I can first, and then I hard limit just a little bit.  I prefer this combination to just a simple dB cut because the latter it like a hard step-down and then step-up whereas the envelope is a smooth transition -- more like a slide as opposed to steps.

I generally do each section of applause individually because the applause segment in question may be louder or quieter than others.  It takes time to do this, and you have to be patient, but I find the effect much better than either simply dB cutting or hard limiting alone.

Hope this helps.

[ilduclo]

envelope is a tool I associate with Cool Edit. I have some presets I made for applause reduction, you go from 100% down to 80% steeply !!!

then back up to 100% again steeply,

then spline the curves. I have also a 60 % and a 40 %

[boojum]

envelope is a tool I associate with Cool Edit. I have some presets I made for applause reduction, you go from 100% down to 80% steeply !!!

then back up to 100% again steeply,

then spline the curves. I have also a 60 % and a 40 %

Are you talking about fading an cross-fading here??

[notsofast]

All the help is appreciated, I am planning to tackle this tonight.  I will let you all know what I find and how effective it was.

Tim

[ilduclo]

envelope is a tool I associate with Cool Edit. I have some presets I made for applause reduction, you go from 100% down to 80% steeply !!!

then back up to 100% again steeply,

then spline the curves. I have also a 60 % and a 40 %

Are you talking about fading an cross-fading here??

not really. I'd describe it as the reduction in volume of the applause wave form to more like that of the quiet music. I made a steep u shape that starts at 100% of existing volume at the top of the u, shifts steeply to 80% (or w'ev you want to use) and then back up to 100%. I found that the steeper it is, with splining, the better, it works great to reduce the volume without a real noticeable shift. Think of it as turning down the recording volume at the precise moment the applause starts, then raising it again as the music resumes. I am getting better and better at it, the last string quartet concert I attended I used the envelope to raise and lower volumes to make a better sounding recording, IMO.

[EarlyMorningRain]

what I picture in my head is a curve that (maybe) resembles the shape of a bell (from a profile view that is).    Yes/No??

So you mention "the top of the U is the highpoint", but would that "U" be upside down then? Can you attach a screenshot?

I made a steep u shape that starts at 100% of existing volume at the top of the u, shifts steeply to 80% (or w'ev you want to use) and then back up to 100%. I found that the steeper it is, with splining, the better, it works great to reduce the volume without a real noticeable shift. Think of it as turning down the recording volume at the precise moment the applause starts, then raising it again as the music resumes.

[ilduclo]

40%

[boojum]

This is what I am talking about:

[rowjimmytour]

Tim I had this problem last January when taping the power outage show stage lip of Butter. I zoomed in between songs and used volume control to bring down the crowd but still found I did not like the screams in between and after so I used fade in and fade out after. I would bring the fade out up to seconds before the music started. This process is a PITA but sounds better then any filters IMO. Good luck and can't wait to hear the show.
Peace

[notsofast]

 

This process is a PITA but sounds better then any filters IMO. Good luck and can't wait to hear the show.

+T's around. Rowjimmytour it is a PITA. I tired this at home, I found cross fade with volume reduction to work well. I am still learning my chops so the transitions were not as smooth as I would like but the pictures help. I will be able to accomplish my goals with this method, just have to polish my skills.

Thanks to all who have responded, I really am grateful that you shared and helped me out. I must say I really enjoy this group, I have participated in many other "interests" group, none have been this helpful.

Yes you can teach an old dog new tricks,

Tim

[boojum]

This process is a PITA but sounds better then any filters IMO. Good luck and can't wait to hear the show.

+T's around. Rowjimmytour it is a PITA. I tired this at home, I found cross fade with volume reduction to work well. I am still learning my chops so the transitions were not as smooth as I would like but the pictures help. I will be able to accomplish my goals with this method, just have to polish my skills.

Thanks to all who have responded, I really am grateful that you shared and helped me out. I must say I really enjoy this group, I have participated in many other "interests" group, none have been this helpful.

Yes you can teach an old dog new tricks,

Tim

Crossfades seem like a PITA at first.  After a few editing sessions you can do the in your sleep.  I open a session, import the file, listen to the breaks between songs and add a track end right at the quietest.  Then I go back and add the fades, cross fades if I want them.  My editor allows me to put in the fade and then slide the track end back and forth with the fade moving with it.  I am pretty sure my editor is not the only one to do it.

If you can't teach an old dog new tricks you probably couldn't teach him much as a pup.      And I am way older than yo, so there is hope.

Cheers