Topic: Stock FR2LE vs. Busman T-Mod FR2LE - Blind listening experiment

[illconditioned]

Try recording live music and/or ambient sounds.

To Busman: Could you put that in your kitchen and record the same mics modded and umodded?  I think you'll hear more differences there.

I would offer to do this, but I no longer have an umodded unit!  I took the kool-aid and modded mine straight away  ,

  Richard

[Ozpeter]

And don't forget to keep your head in one place when listening to the test materials.  A slight movement of the head in the reverberant field of the listening environment is often enough to significantly change the listener's perception of what is being heard, due to the interactions of the sound waves bouncing round the room.  It is very, very difficult to conduct successful and valid listening tests unless the difference between the two systems under test are really significant, so that which is which is blindingly (or deafeningly) obvious.

I've got nothing against people going for these mods, and I wish anyone who undertakes them well - and in these tiny units, I greatly admire their brain-surgeon-like skills - but I would hope that people would say "I think it's better" or "I prefer it" rather than "it is better, as a matter of unchallengeable fact".

[chris319]

I swore up and down that there was a difference but now I can't hear it.

This supports something I have long suspected -- that there is a great deal of placebo effect in subjective listening tests.

The mod improves distortion in the high and low end along with allowing better transient response to give the recorder a more life like sound adding to the realism of the recording.  "the sound of being there"  Also the soundstage is improved

If you provided measurable, reproducible test results before and after your mods I would be more inclined to see the value in your service. The first thing I want to see is that your mods don't degrade the specs of a stock unit. There are free audio analysis programs available so cost is not the obstacle.

Your competitor offers a general description of what is done in the modification process. On your web page I see no such thing.

I provide a service that is benefitting the audio community wether you hear it or not

Well if you can't hear the difference ...

I too don't mean to "pick apart" your business, but if you're going to charge money for a product or service it should stand up to scrutiny IMO, and I applaud what digifish is doing. OTOH, if the people who pay for your mods are happy with them and feel they've received their money's worth, that's fine and dandy.

[Belexes]

I like my Busman mod and to me "it sounds better."  I can see why someone would opt not to get it given these results, but I personally have no regrets.

[page]

And don't forget to keep your head in one place when listening to the test materials.  A slight movement of the head in the reverberant field of the listening environment is often enough to significantly change the listener's perception of what is being heard, due to the interactions of the sound waves bouncing round the room.  It is very, very difficult to conduct successful and valid listening tests unless the difference between the two systems under test are really significant, so that which is which is blindingly (or deafeningly) obvious.

I gave up trying with speakers and use my IEM headphones instead.

If you provided measurable, reproducible test results before and after your mods I would be more inclined to see the value in your service. The first thing I want to see is that your mods don't degrade the specs of a stock unit. There are free audio analysis programs available so cost is not the obstacle.

Your competitor offers a general description of what is done in the modification process. On your web page I see no such thing.

IMHO, a general description is paltry, and if you arn't publishing specs and test results then to me you are saying nothing anyway. For example, Busman Audio could publish a description, but it doesn't change his mod, we are still back to the "can you hear the results" debate. Test results remove the largest barrier to know what the mods are doing, and I don't see Oade doing that either.

I can see why someone would opt not to get it given these results, but I personally have no regrets.

I don't regret getting mine done, but I use my unit for quiet material (nature recordings, cats, etc) on occasion and thats where I can hear a marked difference.

[willndmb]

i hear no differences
i did hear a difference in the vocals a little bit in the other comp where they were complete

[digifish_music]

I like my Busman mod and to me "it sounds better."  I can see why someone would opt not to get it given these results, but I personally have no regrets.

I'd just like to remind everyone this is a particular mod category on a particular brand of recorder, Busman makes quite a few mods on various models, so let's not generalize this particular case to all modding. Given that no-one is offering up preferences I will reveal the password to the TapersSection_CHF_experiment_Key.zip file.

ihavegoldenears



Something to do: Have a listen to the recordings again, if you know whether A and B was modded (I still don't) while looking at the answer key...can you hear differences now? Possibly...if you can, what does that tell you?

My main purpose here was not to jump up and down all over Busman, (or Oade) but to hopefully 1. find out if there was a difference in the recordings posted, and 2. perhaps teach the group something about perception.

I couldn't hear any differences, and I have been mixing and critical listening to music for a while now, so I was pretty sure there wasn't anything 'noticeable' as people were claiming in the original thread. Indeed the responses we have seen strongly suggests there was no audible differences between recordings from the two samples posted.

Let's get away from the 2 file, single decision comparisons. You pick the modded unit in blind listening once, that's chance, you do it 7 or more times, that's probably real.

digifish