Advice for my friend (which camcorder?) I know another one...

[Depechemode1993]

One of my friends wants to get a camcorder to tape some shows this summer. (stealth) and he wants to keep it under $260. Here are the options that he has been looking at:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8661959&type=product&id=1196470790863

and

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8944093&type=product&id=1215818941255

I am not as knowledgeable when it comes to Cameras. But how good is the samsung one? I looked at it and is the quality going to be that of miniDV? the samsung said that it  does H.264 recordings at 720 x 480? would the minidv be better? This is really a beginner with video taping so this is what he is really looking at. I was favoring the MiniDV cam more than the samsung. But any advice would be great! 

[rsimms3]

How small of a camera are we talking?  A lot of the point and shoots now do 720p which is better than the Samsung.  Kodak has been good about not limiting the recording time with their cameras.  I would give them a look see if that is of interest.  Would be tough to get a steady picture with a point and shoot, but possible.  Downside is that you have to be pretty close to get a good picture.  If I had to choose, I would go with the miniDV because in the end you will get a better picture and probably better lowlight performance.  The trade off is battery consumption and possible need to change tapes.  I use a Sanyo HD1000 which is a pain because it will only record up to the 4gb mark before needing to start a new file and it doesn't do it automatically which means finding a spot about every 45 minutes to start a new file.  I record in 720p.  I don't tape enough to justify stepping up to the HD1010 which is 1080p.  And even if I did I would be looking for something with better recording time or automatic start of a new file.

[stevetoney]

Between those two, I'd personally choose the Sony miniDV camera.

1) You're only limited by the number of tapes and the amount of juice you have.  
2) Lots of extra mini-DV tapes are less expensive than lots of extra SDHC cards.
3) 40X optical zoom is really nice for concert shooting, but you might even want to push it a little into the digital zoom range for even better close ups.  My experience with my own old gen Sony mini-DV camera is that Sony's digital zoom function is pretty darn nice and doesn't start pixelating until, on my camera, well into the digital zone.
4) Zeiss optics on the Sony should be better than the Samsung...even if another camera has better resolution, if the optics suck the resolution does you no good.
5) The color of the other one makes it look dumb.

My opinions.

[rastasean]

I like the sony since it has a viewfinder. How stupid is the samsung not to have a view finder?? Also like tonedeaf said, miniDV tapes can be found anywhere.

What is it with people wanting to stealth video tape shows?
Thats something I don't quite understand but it could be because I don't think the quality would be good enough. We don't have a video camera maker making high quality cameras suitable for stealthing like we have chris church making small great value microphones. 

Good luck!

[stevetoney]

What is it with people wanting to stealth video tape shows?
Thats something I don't quite understand but it could be because I don't think the quality would be good enough.

Personal opinion is, indeed that they're not good enough, but most people don't have the confidence to start videotaping from a tripod the first time they go to a show with a video camera in their hand, so it's easy to give them the benefit of a doubt.

Personally, I like video taping shows, but not when I have to hide out with a camera.  The show comes first, so I make sure if I video that it's with a video friendly band where a tripod is not an issue. 

I just don't like watching hand held concert videos, no matter how well the videographer steadied the camera.

[rastasean]

Personal opinion is, indeed that they're not good enough, but most people don't have the confidence to start videotaping from a tripod the first time they go to a show with a video camera in their hand, so it's easy to give them the benefit of a doubt.

Personally, I like video taping shows, but not when I have to hide out with a camera.  The show comes first, so I make sure if I video that it's with a video friendly band where a tripod is not an issue. 

I haven't video taped any shows but I do imagine it would be pretty fun and you could get great results provided you're not having to hide out for security or anything.

I just don't like watching hand held concert videos, no matter how well the videographer steadied the camera.

I would generally agree with this but I have seen good video from handhelds but thats when they have stage access.

[sabre]

3) 40X optical zoom is really nice for concert shooting, but you might even want to push it a little into the digital zoom range for even better close ups.

You can't be serious. Anybody shooting hand held in a stealth situation should go nowhere near the 40X zoom mark. Any minor bump at that range is going to be multiplied many times over.

Anybody shooting video with a P&S has got no idea what they're doing. Can you even zoom with a P&S? lol.

Out of the two video cameras you listed, go with the Sony miniDV.

When you get the camera make sure you learn how to use the manual focus and manual exposure settings. It makes a big difference in the quality of your video.

Read this thread for some tips on how to film shows: http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,81909.msg1101700.html

[stevetoney]

3) 40X optical zoom is really nice for concert shooting, but you might even want to push it a little into the digital zoom range for even better close ups.

You can't be serious. Anybody shooting hand held in a stealth situation should go nowhere near the 40X zoom mark. Any minor bump at that range is going to be multiplied many times over.

Anybody shooting video with a P&S has got no idea what they're doing. Can you even zoom with a P&S? lol.

Pluto, my suggestion on the zoom is for when the guy discovers after his first concert shooting experience that hand-holding is VERY difficult to do.  We ALL learn that the first time out.  Not only does your body totally ache at the end of the show, your mind is completely spent from the mental strain of worrying about being caught, but it's just damned difficult to get steady shots at 5X or 10X, let alone 40X.

But I'm very serious about considering 40X, because if this guy is like the rest of the serious concert filmers, the guy will probably want to move to open tripod shooting.  Put a 40x optical zoom on a tripod and the video you are capable of getting fully justifies 40x.  I do it all the time with super primo results.  It all depends on how steady the camera is and, as I stated in my earlier message the quality of the optics.

Not only that, but it's safe to assume that the person might use the camera for purposes other than concerts, in which case a 40x can come in very handy.

[rsimms3]

3) 40X optical zoom is really nice for concert shooting, but you might even want to push it a little into the digital zoom range for even better close ups.

Anybody shooting video with a P&S has got no idea what they're doing. Can you even zoom with a P&S? lol.

Yes, yes you can.

The question was about a camera for  video.  It's a comment, it isn't the end all, be all.  I totally agree about the miniDV camera, but there are other options out there besides the miniDV.  The higher the optical zoom, the better because you never know where you will be sitting.  If you don't have it, you are SOL but if you have it and don't need it, all the better.