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Author Topic: Mic Recommendations...  (Read 5045 times)

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Offline speck

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Mic Recommendations...
« on: February 06, 2009, 03:34:58 AM »
I'm considering upgrading my Mic amd am looking at some recommendations. At the moment I'm using a Sony MS907 model mic which is OK but tends to distort a bit. What I really like about this mic though is the size of it (13cm long/tall by about 4cm thick) I was wondering what other mics are out there that have roughly the same dimensions. It would seem the brand of choice for many tapers is Schoeps. I was hoping I could get some recommendations based on what others are using. As for price I'm not certain what I'm looking at spending just yet but any suggestions would be welcomed.

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Offline boojum

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Re: Mic Recommendations...
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2009, 03:59:49 AM »
The mic you currently have lists for ~$80.  Schoeps CMC64 ST, a set to replace what you have, lists for ~$3,600.  Can you give us a little better idea of how much you are prepared to spend?
Nov schmoz kapop.

Offline speck

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Re: Mic Recommendations...
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2009, 08:28:43 AM »
 :o :o OK well i'm certainly not willing to spend that kind of money on a mic but I have noticed people using schoeps MK41's which according to this link --> http://www.fullcompass.com/product/351615.html goes for about $1000 so let's cap it at that. That being said if anyone knows something that does a good job for less let me know. By the way I'm using a sony mini disc recorder model MZ-RH910.

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Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: Mic Recommendations...
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2009, 11:19:03 AM »
FWIW, the Schoeps MK41 cap is just the capsule -- it still needs a functioning mic amplifier (like the CMC6) to work.  But it sounds like we have a budget, now ($1k).  You'll have a tough time finding a mic of similar size to the Sony MS907.  It's a single point stereo mic, i.e. it's basically two microphones in one.  There aren't a lot of options for single point stereo mics, with the exception of large diaphragm mics which will be much larger than the Sony.

Do you like the Sony's size because it allows you to stealth, or do you like the size just because?  In other words, do you want to be able to stealth with your mics, or only record openly (or semi-openly)?
« Last Edit: February 06, 2009, 11:22:57 AM by Brian Skalinder »
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Offline su6oxone

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Re: Mic Recommendations...
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2009, 11:33:57 AM »
Do you like the Sony's size because it allows you to stealth, or do you like the size just because?  In other words, do you want to be able to stealth with your mics, or only record openly (or semi-openly)?


For under/around $1000, you could go:

1. Beyerdynamic MC930
2. Neumann KM184
3. Various AKGs...
4. DPA 406x series

I've used the KM184s and loved them, and was able to st***th them as well.  A lot of people love the MC930s which are the cheapest of the ones I listed (~$700 new).  The DPAs are omnis but are small and can be powered with just a battery box and not phantom power.

Also, Busman BSC1 mics are around $500 and if non-open taping is what you mostly do, you can try out the Church audio mics (CA-11/CA-14) or Audio Technica mics sold from Sound Pros (CMC-4, but makes sure to get the 'low sensitivity' option). 

Offline speck

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Re: Mic Recommendations...
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2009, 02:22:03 AM »
Thanks for the replies. Yes stealthing is primarily what I will be doing at gigs I'm intending on recording... Brian, what do you like about the KM184s? can you point me towards any samples of recordings you have done using these mics? What kinds of gigs have you used them for?

Offline heyitsmejess

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Re: Mic Recommendations...
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2009, 02:41:47 AM »
if your looking for the jedi way, check out church audio.

im a big fan of the ca-14 omnis
cause we zig and zag between good and bad
stumble and fall on right and wrong


http://www.rumpkemountainboys.org/

Offline DSatz

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Re: Mic Recommendations...
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2009, 03:00:51 PM »
speck, the microphones people are mentioning to you are small, but they aren't stereo microphones, so you would still need a pair of them to replace your one stereo mike. And that implies some sort of mechanical mounting arrangement which would hold the two microphones at some suitable distance and angle relative to each other, plus a pair of cables, some way of powering the microphones, and then a way to connect them to your recorder or recording interface. It's not a simple 1:1 replacement for what you have.

If you generally like the results that you're getting now, apart from the distortion you hear in your recordings, maybe you'd prefer to figure out why (and where, exactly, in the recording or playback signal "chain") this distortion is occurring. Then perhaps you can prevent it in the future, without needlessly replacing the microphone you already have.

On the other hand many people are always on the lookout for an excuse to buy some gear. If that's your situation I certainly don't wish to interfere; the economy needs you, and we certainly have people here with good recording equipment that they want to sell. I'm just saying--what if the problem that you're hearing was curable for not much (if any) money--what would you want to do then?

--best regards
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline jeromejello

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Re: Mic Recommendations...
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2009, 03:47:40 PM »
i really like my Shure VP88 for a stereo mic, but its a beast to try and stealth. (approx $500 used)

another nice stereo point is the AT825 (or AT822) but it will also be a little harder to stealth. (approx $350 - 250 used)

I use AT853 for stealth purposes and have always been satisfied with the results (i run them into a preamp to avoid distortion issues) and you can get a set for around $300 used.

i have also enjoyed most of the dpa 4060/1 recording i have heard - they are smaller then then the AT853s but they cost more and are only omnis.
open: mbho 603a (ka200n/ka500hn) > SD MP-2 > PCM-M10
stealth: AT853a (o/sc/c/h) > SD MP-2 > ihp120
misc: Earthworks SR77 | Shure VP88

bt & dime

Offline SmokinJoe

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Re: Mic Recommendations...
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2009, 04:02:44 PM »
The other thing here is that most "big" mics require a preamp which provides phantom power.  The original poster is using a mic which runs on plug in power (or maybe even an internal battery?) > minidisc.  He is looking for something a bit better, primarily which doesn't brickwall on him.  Anything which simply doesn't brickwall will be a huge quality upgrade from something which does.

So, I'll second a couple of the comments made here earlier... either AT-853's with the "low sensitivity mod" or Church Audio cards, and a battery box.  Chris Church has various deals in the "Retail space" area. The package below for $149 isn't a bad place to start, and the extra $69 for the 9100 preamp upgrade is probably worth it.
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,80054.0.html  Like most obsessive hobbies you can spend as much money as you like.  Usually little clips on the mics are optional, and it's probably a good idea to go with that... you can find somewhere to clip them.
Mics: Schoeps MK4 & CMC5's / Gefell M200's & M210's / ADK-TL / DPA4061's
Pres: V3 / ST9100
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Offline speck

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Re: Mic Recommendations...
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2009, 11:46:02 PM »
Hmm OK there are some things to think about here...
Well I do know the distorting issue is with the mic which is simply powered by a single AA battery. During the louder gigs I attend is when the distorting issue is most prevalent. I'm kinda 50/50 about solving the distorting issue of my existing mic or upgrading to a different one :-\

If I were to upgrade the AT853 & also the Church Audio mics both seem like reasonable options.
What is the difference between the 9000 & the 9100 preamp on the Church Audio ad?

And SmokinJoe yes I do realise there is no limit to the sums we can spend on our hobbies, I know from experience  ;D



Offline sunjan

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Re: Mic Recommendations...
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2009, 04:59:24 PM »
Speck, I used to run pretty much the same rig as you a few years back. The thing that annoyed me most was how to hold/place the Sony mic when stealthing.
Placement anywhere lower than eye level would result in muffled sound from audience in front of me.
So my #1 concern when I upgraded my mic was to get a pair that could be head mounted. Better stereo separation was an added bonus.
I went the AT853 way and haven't looked back. Church cards are great value too, or if you want to spend your entire budget, go for DPAs or the other brands mentioned.

The internal pre of your HiMD has a good reputation, so an external pre is not really needed for this combo. A Church pre might give you a little bit more headroom, but mainly it's a great upgrade path once the mechanism of your minidisc fails and you move on to other recorders... Consider getting it.

Dsatz has a point about your Sony mic, but I'd still say it's unsuitable for live taping because of the limited frequency response. All other mics mentioned in this thread would be an improvement, both on the bass and treble side.
Mics: A-51s LE, CK 930, Line Audo CM3, AT853Rx (hc,c,sc),  ECM 121, ECM 909A
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Offline speck

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Re: Mic Recommendations...
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2009, 06:38:22 PM »
Thanks for all the help everyone I think I've all but decided to go with C.A. option my final question is that I noticed that there are CA-14 cardoid & CA-14 omni's available could someone please clarify the difference between omni & cardoid for me?

Cheers

Offline DSatz

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Re: Mic Recommendations...
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2009, 07:33:31 PM »
speck, cardioid and omni are two different "directional patterns" or "pickup patterns" that a microphone can be designed to have. The omni (short for "omnidirectional") is the simpler of the two: Regardless of what direction sound is coming from, the microphone will pick that sound up about equally well; it doesn't discriminate by the angle of arrival. Most omnidirectional mikes aren't perfectly true to this definition at high frequencies, but throughout the main part of their frequency range, it's how they work.

Omnidirectional microphones can have real advantages over microphones with other pickup patterns, but they work best under ideal acoustical conditions. OK, well, of course everything in the universe works best under ideal conditions--but what I mean is, if the space that you're recording in has a yummy balance of direct sound and reverberant (reflected) sound, and you put an omnidirectional microphone (or a pair of them for stereo) somewhere near where the two types of sound energy balance to your liking, the result can be quite beautiful. In a lousy room, though, the result can be quite lousy.

The other thing about omni mikes is that for stereo, you either have to space them apart a few feet or more, and/or put some kind of acoustically opaque object between them--or else they'll tend to pick up almost the exact same signals as each other (think about it!), and the result will be essentially a mono recording even though you used two microphones and two recorder channels to make it.

"Cardioid" is a pickup pattern in which the mike has greater sensitivity to sound that occurs in front of it than to sound that occurs beside it or especially, behind it. The microphone discriminates to a certain degree, in other words, depending on the angle at which the sound arrives at the microphone. This allows you to keep a pair of microphones close together and still get a stereo effect because you aim them apart from each other (with "front and center" bisecting the angle between their main axes, to get technical about it).

In a musical performance situation, when you aim cardioid microphones toward the main sources of direct sound, their backs will usually face (although why do we still call it "facing" when it's the backs of the microphones and they don't have faces anyway?) the back and/or sides of the room. Reflections come from there, but (usually) no direct sound unless there are pigeons in the eaves. As a result (deep breath now), cardioid microphones aimed at the direct sound sources will tend to pick up less reflected (reverberant) sound energy than omnidirectional microphones would pick up if they were placed at the same distance from the sound sources in the same room. The difference isn't night-and-day since a cardioid pattern is nothing like the narrow beam of a flashlight, but it's enough to notice. It allows a usable balance to be obtained at somewhat greater miking distances than an omnidirectional mike would allow, as well as in moderately terrible sounding rooms where a pair of spaced omni mikes would sound truly terrible as noted above.

There can be other differences but that's the most basic one. Good question, by the way.

--best regards
« Last Edit: February 08, 2009, 07:50:03 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline su6oxone

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Re: Mic Recommendations...
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2009, 11:40:46 PM »
Thanks for all the help everyone I think I've all but decided to go with C.A. option my final question is that I noticed that there are CA-14 cardoid & CA-14 omni's available could someone please clarify the difference between omni & cardoid for me?

Cheers

For stealthing, you want cardioids, not omnis, generally speaking.  That way you can limit the audience chatter from behind and the sides and increase the 'sound' you get from the stacks/speakers.  I would get the CA-11 or CA-14 if you are going with Church Audio.  The CA-11 are probably fine, and easier to use since the CA-14s have windscreens mounted on them that you're not supposed to remove. 

 

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