Topic: Edirol R-09HR or Marantz PMD 620?

[BitRater]

Recently I posed the question, "Marantz PMD620 or TASCAM DR-100?

I've decided not to get a Tascam DR100 after all. Too new and I don't see a lot of reviews out there extolling the virtues of the lower-cost DR-1 and GT-1 units, also made by the same firm. Such reviews might give a better indication of how a mid-price model a step or two up from its stablemates might actually play out in the real world.

Yes, I know there are reviews which focus on both units, but I've never seen one which directly compares the TASCAM models with the Edirol or Marantz and shows them being as good or better than either of the former two makes.

This isn't to say that the TASCAM units are no good - TEAC has a long history of making good-quality professional-grade audio recording equipment, and I simply haven't been able to find enough info to be able to make an informed buying decision. Indeed many of the recent reviews of small digital audio recorders focus quite intently on the Edirol and the Marantz.

I've heard samples of the R09HR and the PMD620 at Wingfield audio and they both sound very nice. The Marantz seems to have a slight edge in sound quality - with a fuller, richer sound that is not what I would have expected from a unit seemingly aimed largely at journalists. The Edirol is quite precise too, but seems to have a little less bass and high-end response while offering a decent midrange. Mind you, I could be off here - I have a tin ear, so to speak, in which I wear a hearing aid (a high-quality digital one) and the other ear is basically non-functional.

I like the Edirol's larger display - my poor old eyes can't read small type like they used to. On the other hand, the Marantz does have the option of letting you enlarge the display font for better readability. Reviews of the Edirol suggest it has better ergonomics and menu systems, while the Marantz can take some getting used to. I understand that Marantz has recently released a firmware update which revises the menu system for easier operation.

The biggest thing I don't like about the Edirol is its lack of a tripod mount, forcing you to shell out $60.00 or so to get a proprietary tripod adapter and case. At least Marantz includes such an adapter.

Both units seem equally good, with the usual pluses and minuses. So, all that said, which one would you get, and why?

[travelinbeat]

bump?

[flintstone]

You didn't mention how you're planning to use the recorder, whether you plan to use external mics or the built-in mics, how long you need the battery to last, whether you need phantom power or not, how large the recorder should be, what your budget is, and so on.  Tell us more.

Many folks here who are concert tapers love the R-09HR.  It's a big improvement over the predecessor R-09.  There are a few who use the Oade-modified PMD620, and have good things to say about it.  There's at least one person who posts here regularly who loves the DR-1 as well.  There are a few who favor the Sony PCM-D50, too.  I'm a minority of one who likes the Olympus LS-10, but I don't record the "earplugs mandatory" sort of concert.

If you don't need a recorder the size of a cell phone, the current hot ticket seems to be the Marantz PMD661.  It sounds very good stock, and really great when modified by Oade.  Other good choices when size is not important are the Fostex FR-2LE (a great bargain for as little as $440) and the Edirol R-44 four channel recorder.

When you see a report that praises one recorder or another, take a look in the poster's signature at the end of the post to see what gear is in their recording chain.  Just about any recorder here will sound great if it's behind $5000 worth of mics and preamps.

Flintstone

[kbergend]

I think BitRater wound up getting a PMD620.  I have no experience with the R09-HR, although I've been very satisfied with the two Edirol 4-track recorders I've owned.  As I've said elsewhere, the built-in mics on the PMD620 are only suitable for voice recording IMO and the noise floor on the internal preamps is fairly high so you'll probably want an external pre for recording quieter shows if the Oade mod isn't an option.  Otherwise I've really had no complaints -- battery life is excellent (8+ hours on a pair of lithium AAs), it's very easy to operate once you master the presets and it's WAY better designed and more reliable than my old Microtrack I, although you can't use it as a bit bucket.  I will also comment that the unit is built like a tank.  One rainy night a few months back mine fell out of my coat pocket onto the driveway and I stepped on it with all my weight -- it's pretty scratched up now, but still runs flawlessly!

[BitRater]

Well, looks like I've stirred up a small hornet's nest of commentary here!    I did end up getting a Marantz PMD620. Because my budget is kinda limited right now, I also picked up an Audio-technica PRO24 mic. The PRO24 works OK for general field recording purposes, although I do wish it offered a bit more depth and bass response. It's also (surprisingly) less sensitive than the internal mics.

Then again, whaddya want for a hundred bucks, eh? kbergend is right, though, the internal mics are best used for voice recording, and yes, I have noticed they have a higher noise floor than the external mic. But they still do a pretty good job  - better than the Zoom H2, I'd say.

Oddly enough, the external mic only requires a 1.5 volt watch-type battery, but when I switch the microphone to 'off' and switch the '620 over to the 'external mic' setting I get no audio at all. It looks like the PMD620's circuitry isn't sufficient to power the PRO24.

Right now, I'm using the setup for general field recording purposes - environmental sounds, ambience, that sort of thing.

As funds permit, I'll be looking at getting a mic preamp and maybe some Church Audio binaurals so I can do some stealth taping of concerts.

[travelinbeat]

My primary objective is to make the leap from my H120 into the 24bit world.  I do mostly stealth with my CA-14's and CA-9100.  I am considering branching out in to an open-taping rig as well, in which case I have almost no idea what mics I'll be running (Busman BSC1's?  AT4041's? Avatone CK-1's?  Something in this price range probably...).  I am also wondering if we could include the PMD661 in this conversation.  I know that it is considerable larger than the iRiver and the R-09HR, but I *think I might still be able to work with it.  I am confused as to whether the PMD661 requires phantom power for mics, and whether it has a 1/8" line-in.  It seems that this is a pretty hot device right now, but I am wondering about it's stealthability and what else about it is less-than-ideal... certainly the thing must have some negative side(s)!

[kbergend]

kbergend is right, though, the internal mics are best used for voice recording, and yes, I have noticed they have a higher noise floor than the external mic. But they still do a pretty good job  - better than the Zoom H2, I'd say.

Oddly enough, the external mic only requires a 1.5 volt watch-type battery, but when I switch the microphone to 'off' and switch the '620 over to the 'external mic' setting I get no audio at all. It looks like the PMD620's circuitry isn't sufficient to power the PRO24.

You need Input = MIC and Mic Power = On in the preset settings to supply power to external mics.  I think the unit supplies 3V which should be enough to power your AT Pro 24.  When you're ready to get some mics suitable for music, I recommend looking into Church Audio's CA-14s (I have CA-11s but the CA-14s are reportedly better for about the same price).

Also, the noise floor I was referring to is that of the PMD620's internal mic preamp (not the mics themselves), which applies to both internal and external mics.  A decent pair of external mics like your AT will generally have much lower self-noise and distortion levels than the internals and thus provide better sounding recordings.

[kbergend]

My primary objective is to make the leap from my H120 into the 24bit world.  I do mostly stealth with my CA-14's and CA-9100.  I am considering branching out in to an open-taping rig as well, in which case I have almost no idea what mics I'll be running (Busman BSC1's?  AT4041's? Avatone CK-1's?  Something in this price range probably...).  I am also wondering if we could include the PMD661 in this conversation.  I know that it is considerable larger than the iRiver and the R-09HR, but I *think I might still be able to work with it.  I am confused as to whether the PMD661 requires phantom power for mics, and whether it has a 1/8" line-in.  It seems that this is a pretty hot device right now, but I am wondering about it's stealthability and what else about it is less-than-ideal... certainly the thing must have some negative side(s)!

I acquired a PMD661 recently when Oade started offering mods, although I gather from what I've read that the stock pres are very good and doubtless much better than the PMD620's.  I was a little nervous about stealthing with it too (I'm sure the guys who routinely smuggle V3 + JB3 with cables & big battery past security are laughing) after years of using MD recorders, Microtrack and the PMD620, but I really wanted an all-in-one unit that can supply phantom power for running pro condenser mics.  Suffice to say stealthing is very doable with small mics or an active setup and a little ingenuity. 

The unit has a 1/8" line in as well as digital in, but is really designed to be used with phantom-powered mics -- there is no 1/8" mic input.  You could of course plug your CA-14 and 9100 into the line-in jack, but I'm not sure what the point would be.  It sounds great and is very easy to operate, and you can get 6+ hours on 4 lithium AAs with most mics.  There are quite a few samples of the stock and Oade versions posted in the PMD661 thread.

[travelinbeat]

The unit has a 1/8" line in as well as digital in, but is really designed to be used with phantom-powered mics -- there is no 1/8" mic input.  You could of course plug your CA-14 and 9100 into the line-in jack, but I'm not sure what the point would be.  It sounds great and is very easy to operate, and you can get 6+ hours on 4 lithium AAs with most mics.  There are quite a few samples of the stock and Oade versions posted in the PMD661 thread.

The point of using a Line-In on the 661 would be to facilitate the 1/8" termination of the CA-14's.  Does anyone know whether the 1/8" Line-In jack provides enough juice to run the CA line of mics?  Also, I know that on my iRiver something strange happens at about +20dB... something about the quality of the gain rapidly deteriorating.  Do we know how much boost the 661 can supply without deteriorating?

I'm glad to hear that it's stealthable... that's a major deal maker / breaker.

What other differences are there between the 661 and the R-09HR?  So far I know that the 661 can run XLR's straight in and can provide them with phantom power.  How's the A/D on this device?  Is it possible / logical to power mics with something like a PS2 prior to feeding the signal into the 661?  Thanks for all of your help so far guys, I really love this place and I appreciate all of the insights!

Edit: Also, I've looked all over the pictures for the device (find them here) and I can't find the 1/8" Line in.... is it the jack on the right side of the unit labeled "Line in 2"?  Looks kinda small... does that make the headphone jack a 1/4" plug? Thanks again!

[kbergend]

Yes, the jack labeled "Line In 2" on the PMD661 is a 1/8" stereo line in.  Line In #1 is the XLR jacks, which can be configured for mic in with 48V phantom power, mic in without phantom power, or line in (also without phantom power).  None of the unit's jacks will safely power electret mics like your CA-14s, you would have to connect your preamp (which is also a 9V power supply) to the Line In 2 jack.  Yes, you could theoretically use a PS2 to supply phantom power to mics that need it instead of the recorder, but you're probably better off using an external lithium-ion battery connected to the PMD661 DC IN if you need longer run time than internal AAs can supply.  And yes, the jack on the top of the unit is a 1/4" stereo out jack for pro headphones (or of course you can use a 1/8" plug with adapter).

You can download a user's manual from here:  http://www.d-mpro.com/users/getdownload.asp?DownloadID=414