Newbie looking to upgrade her equip

[tokay]

Wow, thanks for all of your advice so far.  I think I'm going to try to get my hands on some other mics and equipment so I can test out my R9 a little more.  If the connections seem really screwed up with all the equipment I try, I'll probably opt for the Fostex.  If everything's working, it seems like the wise thing to do is get the Mixpre.  I'll let you know what I end up getting (and don't be surprised if you see a new topic such as "Newbie looking to understand her equip"...I apologize ahead of time). 

[dorrcoq]

Why apologize?  Guys love these types of threads.

[Mike R.]

The hiss in the first half of your sample is almost certainly from your microphone preamp.  An external preamp like the Mix-Pre would clean that up nicely.

The clicking is a little more mysterious to me.  It sounds like you recorded it. Almost a ticking sound near the beginning of the second half of your sample?  Were you wearing a mechanical wristwatch?  Maybe it was a nearby insect?  Maybe I'm not hearing it at all?

[digifish_music]

As you know I have the same gear. I am currently using an NT4 -> MixPre -> R09HR for my most mobile setup.

Advice based on your gear: I would not (at this point) buy any more mics or new recorders, your limiting factor is getting high levels of clean gain (well clean gain of any sort with an R09). The best way to do that is invest in something like a MixPre. You can connect that to your R09 line-in with a light-weight and flexible cable. The results are completely professional in quality. Recorders and mics come and go, but a MixPre is a life-long investment in a quality, and most importantly, very very quiet preamp.

The moment you plug the NT4 into the MixPre a whole new world will open up to you, it really makes a dramatic and exciting difference. The NT4 + R09 + MixPre makes stellar field recordings IMO, most of the recordings below were made using this rig...

green path (walk and record) -

http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=44480

and orange line = distance recording (68m = 223 feet).

http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=44478

http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=44479



...and something a bit more serene. This recording was from the house up the hill to where the photo was taken.

http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=54889



and close mic water, at this range it sounds like listening through a magnifying glass, should have backed up a little ...

http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=53428



Wildlife

Close up with an Australian Brushtail Possum (far cuter than American Possums )

http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=53291



Aus Magpie

http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=42189



Bats

http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=44170

No pic sorry

Here's the AT3032 + MixPre + R09HR

http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=57272



BTW: If you create a free account at freesound you can download the original recordings.

Wind noise:

The cheapest way to go is get a Rode DeadKitten and slip it over the NT4 foam pop-shield. $20 ish.

if you can afford it put your NT4 in a Rode Blimp...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LNxAjjKH3M

Omni mic pair vs NT4

While it is good advice that an omni stereo mic pair makes great recordings, the inconvenience of managing a stereo pair in the field far outweighs the advantages over an NT4 IMO. For me the convenience of [NT4 (in Blimp) - MixPre - R09] is not to be underestimated. You grab the bundle and go. You are mobile and can record wherever you want.

digifish

[digifish_music]

Yes!  That MixPre does seem enticing (I was pretty impressed with some of the samples digifish posted using this).  The only things I'm a little nervous about are the connections with my particular R-9.  From my experience with the NT4, the minijack connection seemed pretty sloppy, but I wasn't able to connect it with any other mics or devices to find out if it was just a quirk between the R-9 and the NT4 or just a problem with my R-9 in general. 

The NT4 1/8" jack cable is quite stiff and heavy in comparison to the sort of 1/8" to 1/8" cable you can use from the Tape Out on the MixPre to the Line-In on the R09, I am sure you will have no problems there. Getting a connector with right-angle connectors will also help. 

There is no comparison between these two...



digifish

[stevetoney]

First, it seems that digifish has provided the definitive aswer to your questions above, so I'm not all that sure I can add much.

I'm not a nature recordist, but as I was initially reading through the responses this morning I was thinking along the same lines as digifish about the fact that all the talk about the recording device is somewhat misplaced discussion unless you did want an all-in-one device.  The point being, as digifish said, you've already got exactly what you want/need for field recording...a good mic and a tiny portable high quality pocket digital recorder.  All you need to add is the high quality low noise pre-amp to get your gain up! 

Obviously, if you wanna go with an all-in-one, you don't have to worry about buying the high quality, low noise preamp because it will already be a part of the all-in-one recorder!  Just make sure you're dealing with either Busman or Oade when you get your all-in-one (if you go that route) because they'll best be able to tell you what products they have that would suit your needs! 

Not sure if this is your issue, but regarding the clicking sound, be aware that on the early R-09s that were delivered a couple of years ago, the line-in jack had a really weak connection where the jack was just basically connected to the PC board with a dollup of solder...this broke for lots and lots of people.  This connection needed to be beefed up (under warranty by Edirol or I sent mine out to someone here on TS.com) so that it could withstand the plugging and unplugging over time by first fixing that solder connection and then securing the jack with a glob of epoxy in order for that jack to hold up to the rigors of the field.  Yours might be coming loose!

EDIT TO ADD:  Some people resolved the above connection problem by adding another short cable to their R-09 and then leaving that cable permanently affixed to the R-09 in order to minimize stressing the line in connection, while plugging and unplugging from the female connector on the cable instead of the R-09.  In my case, after I'd had my R-09 repaired, I bought a short cable and then wrapped a velcro strap around my R-09 so that this extra cable was secured to the body of the R-09 (and so that the cable couldn't be pulled and yanked thereby stressing the line-in jack anymore) and I just plugged and unplugged from the external cable.  Not an ideal situation, but workable and solved the problem.

[stevetoney]

I was going back over this thread a little bit.  The blimp's are nice, but most people on this list don't use blimps because they're expensive and unnecessary.  The thing that makes the blimp work is the fur that surrounds it.  Someone suggested an omni mic.  OK, that works too, but all you really need is your mic screen, which you said you already have, and the fur that covers the foam screen.  Around here we call the furry things 'deadrats' or just plain 'rats' for short. 

If you have a sewing machine, they're easy to make.  Just go to your local Jo Ann fabric and buy some material that looks acceptable and won't get you arrested by the animal league for carrying around dead animal carcasses...measure it out so that it will fit around the outside of your foam windscreen, add maybe a half inch of slop, sew it all up from the inside and then turn it inside out and viola...the wind will have to HOWL in order for you to hear any wind noise through your rats and the screens...guaranteed! 

You might think...well doesn't that cut down on the nature sounds...well, that's what the low noise preamp is for...just turn the gain up a little bit more and you're back where you started.  FWIW, tests have shown that screens and rats cut down on high frequency response a bit, but everyone agrees that this is a small sacrifice to getting the goods in a windstorm!

[phanophish]

I was also kind of wondering why there was not more of a suggestion of an all in one device like a R-44.  It simplifies the number of pieces of gear you must carry around, give you some really nice flexibility as far as channels go, has decent pre amps and if you sold off your R-09 can be found in the ballpark of the $$ your budget allows.  It can also be run with standard AA batteries which might be handy in remote locations where really long run times might not be top priority

[rastasean]

AND THEN....

you need headphones!

Who recommends what?

I like the Sennheiser HD-280 Pro - Circumaural Closed-Back Professional Monitor Headphone
and the
Roland RH-50 Circumaural Closed-Back Stereo Headphone

Has anyone actually used these? Anyone have any recommendations?

[tokay]

Once again, thanks for all of this input.  You have no idea how helpful this is.  I think now I'm leaning towards the mixpre, but I might see if I can try it out first (I hear that good dealers let you try the equipment before buying it?).  Mostly I'm curious about whether or not the R9 connection issues are something I'll need to address with the Mixpre or not.  Re: Mike R, the clicking was consistent across recordings (the one I posted is a little weird because there's also an insect making fast-paced vibrations beneath the clicking, but that's the only one I could find on this hard drive).  I'm also pretty sure it's not a watch, as I'd set the mic up on a stand some distance from my arm (and with the H4 the clicking disappeared).  I'm pretty sure it's a connection issue, but I'm relieved to hear that this issue is a recognized one (thanks tonedeaf for the details on this - I'm going to see if I'm still under warranty and hopefully I can get this fixed). 

And digifish, awesome recordings.  I came across those before joining the forum, and that's when I first started wondering about mixers vs. all-in-one recorders.  It also looks really portable from your pictures, also a plus. 

 

[tokay]

I also feel settled on the NT4, and one more question I have has less to do with wind (I do have a rycote mini windjammer that served me pretty well) and more to do with handling noise.  The NT4 works great on a stand, but it would be nice to walk around with it a bit.  The blimps are out of my league price-wise (also, the wind hasn't been too much of an issue yet, so it seems a bit extravegent for my needs), but is there something between that and nothing that would allow me to record while moving around? 

I did find a shockmount designed for the NT4, but in the description they emphasize that it's used for mounting it on a camera (http://stores.channeladvisor.com/daleproaudio/items/item.aspx?itemid=2575006).  Would it make sense to buy a shockmount, mount it on a normal mic stand and then walk around carrying the stand?  Would that even work, or is there an easier way to do this?  There is also this: http://www.thebroadcastshop.com/sales/detail.asp?partno=RY-MSMED&aid=froogle, but again, way too expensive.. 

[rastasean]

Well since you already have some kind of wind protection, thats less money to spend! you can just make something as well, tonedeaf gave a good recommendation on that.

check this out:
http://www.thecinecity.com/tcc/product.php?productid=57&cat=265&page=1

That's a little less than half the price of the other one you liked us to.  Not everyone will recommend this option to you because its not of professional quality but it will probably work for you.
If you do some searching on the net, and maybe on TS, you will find do it yourself suspension kits made out of PVC and rubber bands but I don't have those links anymore.

Would it make sense to buy a shockmount, mount it on a normal mic stand and then walk around carrying the stand?

not to me.  perhaps you can consider that option if you wanted to leave the mic unattended and didn't want any possible bumping noises on the recording.

[phanophish]

rode also recently came out with a blimp.  Still pricey but getting there....

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/closeup/Blimp--contents.jpg

[digifish_music]

I was also kind of wondering why there was not more of a suggestion of an all in one device like a R-44.  It simplifies the number of pieces of gear you must carry around, give you some really nice flexibility as far as channels go, has decent pre amps and if you sold off your R-09

R44 vs MixPre

I have an R44 and the preamps are decent, fine in the studio, at the concert or recording mid to loud sources in the field (waterfalls, the sea, trains passing etc) but are not really suitable for 'quietude' nature recording, birds, ambiances etc. Too much hiss at the highest gain settings...the MixPre is by comparison completely silent at the equivalent of the R44's two highest gain levels (where the R44 starts noticeable hiss)...and the MixPre still has more quiet gain to give above that.

Suspension solutions...

I also have a pair of Cine City blimps (you can see one being used in some of those screenshots above). The Cine City blimp does a fine job, you just need to be careful with them (a bit fragile).

I recently got a Rode Blimp and it's a much more satisfying solution than the Cine City, from a  mechanical/durability perspective. Sound wise, I doubt they could be separated. 

Solution 1 Cine City Blimp

Here's the NT4 in the Cine City blimp suspension (with doubled rubbers)...







Solution 2: Rode Blimp, Total ~$250 USD?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LNxAjjKH3M

Solution 3: Total = ~$120 <- My recommendation!

A Rode pistol-grip ($99) mount + put a Dead Kitten ($20) over your NT4 foam.



The Dead Kitten...



Solution 4: Total =~ $70

A Rode SM3 or SM4 (prefer 3 as you can tighten the pivot mount, can't on the SM4) + Dead Kitten



...and do this...



Problem with the above, the NT4 is heavy and almost bottoming out the SM3/4 mount, so you don't have a lot of suspension travel to play with.

As noted above, I think Solution 3 (Pistol grip + Dead Kitten) is probably the most cost effective and, importantly, light-weight / transportable.

digifish

[tokay]

A Rode pistol-grip ($99) mount + put a Dead Kitten ($20) over your NT4 foam.

Oh nice, this is exactly what I was thinking of.  I couldn't find anything like this for the NT4 (everything seemed to be oriented towards shotgun mics).  But if the NT4 fits in there, I guess there's no reason that wouldn't work...