Topic: Newbie looking to upgrade her equip

[digifish_music]

A Rode pistol-grip ($99) mount + put a Dead Kitten ($20) over your NT4 foam.

Oh nice, this is exactly what I was thinking of.  I couldn't find anything like this for the NT4 (everything seemed to be oriented towards shotgun mics).  But if the NT4 fits in there, I guess there's no reason that wouldn't work...

The grip comes with two size adaptors...19-20mm or 21-22.5mm using the supplied interchangeable mounts.

But wait (doh!) the NT4 has a barrel diameter of 32mm. It's possible it may fit in the larger mount, better ask rode...

support@rodemic.com

I also remember they have a $20 handle, so here is the $80 solution...

Dead-Kitten



+

PG1 pistol grip ( http://www.rodemic.com/accessory.php?product=pg1 )



+

SM3



I'd be looking to double the rubbers or something here.

[tokay]

I just sent my R09 off to be repaired.  Hopefully that'll solve my connection issues and I can get started with a mixpre pretty soon.  I never thought I'd feel this excited about the prospect of clean gain..

[digifish_music]

I never thought I'd feel this excited about the prospect of clean gain..

I have had my MixPre for two years and I am still excited about it. Turns cheap SD card recorders into gold

[tokay]

Awesome.  I got my R-9 fixed, ordered a mixpre, and I've just started using it.  God I love this thing.  I don't even really know what I'm doing yet and it already sounds a million times better than my last set up.  Thanks everyone for the advice!

Some blissfully stupid questions to make sure I'm maximizing my use of this stuff:

- I assume the mixpre should plug into the Line In jack and NOT the microphone jack on the R-9?  Both work, but the leveling is different in each situation (with the mic jack, I have to set the levels pretty low on both the R-9 and mixpre, with the input jack I have to increase them a lot).  What's the difference between the two?  This is probably a really dumb question but, ah well. 

- Phantom or Battery?  I've been going with phantom, but I'm curious if there's an advantage to using the battery (other than preserving the mixpre's own battery life, I imagine).

- I assume I don't have to touch the tape return stuff ever?  I can't quite figure out what it's for, so I'm assuming it doesn't apply to what I'm doing.

- Limiters/High Pass Filters...I'm thinking I don't touch these either (for relatively quiet environmental/ambient recordings)? 

Last but not least, things are running beautifully for the situations I've run into so far, but for really quiet situations, I'm not sure I'll get enough gain.  What's the most efficient way to set levels for quiet situations (maybe I should just use the mic jack)?  I think I read somewhere that the R-09 input level should be set between 8-10 - is this true for all situations?  And for louder situations, would it make sense to set the R-9 at an even lower level and let the mixpre do most of the work?     

Sorry for my dumb (yet enthusiastic) questions - any tips will help guide me in all my recording experiments.  Horray, recording is fun! 

[fmaderjr]

Go line in to the R-09 from the MixPre.

Always use phantom with the NT-4 when you can. The sound quality with battery power is not as good as with phantom and it requires more gain from the preamp.

The tape return is for head phone monitoring.

Skip the limiter/high pass filter, although I guess in some circumstances the high pass could help with wind noise. Better to have a good dead cat windscreen for the NT-4 than using the high pass though.

People have said that the unity gain on the R-09 is anywhere from 8-13. I think most have said that it's 13 and that's what I go with.

For really loud situations, never set the R-09 below 8. If it must be set below 8 to keep the meters from going over 0 dB, you run the chance of a brick walled (distorted) recording.

I don't know about running the MixPre into mic in for really quiet situations. You could experiment, but I doubt if its the way to go.

[digifish_music]

- I assume the mixpre should plug into the Line In jack and NOT the microphone

Correct. Don't use mic-in. The mic-in on the R09 will add unecessary noise and possibly tend to overload, since it is a much more sensitive input.  

- Phantom or Battery?  I've been going with phantom, but I'm curious if there's an advantage to using the battery

I use the Phantom on the MixPre as the NT4 takes stupid 9V batteries and is in a blimp where it's hard to get to. It means you have only one type of batteries to worry about. A 4 pack rechargeable AA's = 2 for the MixPre and 2 for the R09. All is well.

- I assume I don't have to touch the tape return stuff ever? 

Correct. It's NT4 --(mic cables)-->MixPre--(1/8" double-male mini-jack tape-out)-->R09 (line in).

Tape return is to allow the recording to be monitored through the MixPre. Not necessary for your application. You can monitor from the R09 or the MixPre direct (it's up to you, I use the MixPre, it's a far better quality sound and closer to what you are recording)

- Limiters/High Pass Filters...I'm thinking I don't touch these either (for relatively quiet environmental/ambient recordings)? 

Just leave it off (middle position). The high-pass filter, 80 Hz(up position) can be useful to reduce some traffic rumble etc when recording birdies etc. 160 Hz  (down position) is a bit too much roll-off IMO.

What's the most efficient way to set levels for quiet situations

There are 11 tick marks around the MixPre gain controls. I wouldn't turn the gain above the 9th tick mark (3 O'Clock) position. If you need to crank more than that for gain on a MixPre, don't bother. IMO

1. Leave the R09 on about 8-10, don't bother to touch that once you have it set.

2. Fiddle with the gain on the MixPre and aim for -12dB to -6dB peaks in 24 bit mode. However: many quiet sources are quiet...and so you may want to record them quietly (-20 dB peaks?). It's not always a good thing to over-amplify the source, the aim is to make a natural recording.

[tokay]

Thanks again for the answers, everyone - I just made a few more recordings today and I'm feeling a bit more knowledgeable and confident with all this, definitely a good thing. 

[georgeh]

Thanks again for the answers, everyone - I just made a few more recordings today and I'm feeling a bit more knowledgeable and confident with all this, definitely a good thing. 

i'd be interested in hearing some samples at some point.

[su6oxone]

I don't know about running the MixPre into mic in for really quiet situations. You could experiment, but I doubt if its the way to go.

I had a MixPre for awhile and for an average concert I never had the gain pots at more than 8 o'clock, which is barely turning the pots at all, because otherwise it would peak/overload.  So I'm guessing even for quiet situations you could get away with line-in and just raise the gain.  Luckily, the quiet taping situations are easily tested at home, unlike a loud concert. 

[tokay]

Thanks again for the answers, everyone - I just made a few more recordings today and I'm feeling a bit more knowledgeable and confident with all this, definitely a good thing. 

i'd be interested in hearing some samples at some point.

Sure, I'm only familiar with sending mp3s though, so forgive the quality. 

First sample: outside on the patio.  Lots of wind, windchimes, dry sticks/leaves blowing around, a little bit of traffic in the distance, something banging against the wall (I think), really faint crickets sometimes. 

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=batch_download&batch_id=MnFoQndOR0ZtUUYzZUE9PQ

Second sample: should've put my phone on vibrate to blend in with cicadas (includes a little unfortunate wind noise, me trying not to laugh and a dove freaking out on a cactus for a second). 

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=batch_download&batch_id=MnFoQndOR0Z6NExIRGc9PQ

If anyone can hear anything I should be doing differently (other than leaving my phone off), definitely let me know. 

[John Bobson]

Hi folks,

This is my first post, I’ve searched all over and learned a lot here. My situation is very similar to the person’s who started this thread Tokay, so I thought I would jump in. If it turns out this should have been a new thread, sorry for the hijack…

So I want to do wildlife field recording very much like Tokay’s situation and many of my questions have been covered here pretty thoroughly but my needs are bit different and I need some advice.

I’m doing wildlife research and using unattended trail cams for photos and want to start doing field recording to get wildlife vocalizations as well. The majority of the use my set up will get will be outdoors and much of it overnight. I will be doing a lot of recording while camping in the bush and will run the recorder attended until bedtime. Overnight my plan is to position the recorder/preamp in the tent vestibule with the mike just outside pointing away. This will be done year round so I need to ensure the mic is protected from the weather.

In terms of equipment I’m planning on going with a Rhode NT3-G > SD Mixpre > Edirol R09-HR as well as a Dead Cat and Sennheiser HD 25-1 II headphones for all weather monitoring. I’m going with the NT3-G because I hear the NT 4 doesn’t like condensation and the NTG-3 is very weather resistant. So with that change I accept the arguments presented here for the other equipment.

My questions are:

1)   How do you protect an unattended mike from rain and snow? Build a little tent over it? Wrap it?
2)   The frequency response of the NTG-3 is fairly flat which will work well for sound in the human range. However some of the mammals I want to record could have vocalizations beyond human range and I would like to see if I can get a visual sonogram of vocalizations say lower than we can hear (not worried about bats). Will my proposed set up be able to do this?
3)   I would like to be able get high quality unattended recordings for about 8 hours. What would be the best settings on the R09HR to do this and am I correct in thinking it will close the file and start a new one when file size limits are hit? Is this firmware rev level dependent?
4)   Finally I would also like to record acoustic blues session with my son and I on the porch. I’m pretty sure I will be able to do this quite well with this set up but would appreciate it if someone could confirm.

Thanks in advance, this is a great forum with lot’s of good information and I’m looking forward to any comments and feedback,  gerry

[digifish_music]

My questions are:

1)   How do you protect an unattended mike from rain and snow? Build a little tent over it? Wrap it?
2)   The frequency response of the NTG-3 is fairly flat which will work well for sound in the human range. However some of the mammals I want to record could have vocalizations beyond human range and I would like to see if I can get a visual sonogram of vocalizations say lower than we can hear (not worried about bats). Will my proposed set up be able to do this?
3)   I would like to be able get high quality unattended recordings for about 8 hours. What would be the best settings on the R09HR to do this and am I correct in thinking it will close the file and start a new one when file size limits are hit? Is this firmware rev level dependent?
4)   Finally I would also like to record acoustic blues session with my son and I on the porch. I’m pretty sure I will be able to do this quite well with this set up but would appreciate it if someone could confirm.

1. There have been quite a few posts on protecting mics overnight. Generally I have wrapped the mic very tightly with a layer of cling-film. Made no discernible difference to the audio. Make sure the capsule has a single tightly stretched layer.

See this thread for a more general discussion - http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,108390.0.html

2. I use either an NT4 or AT3032 pair in the field. Both are capable of recording into the ultrasonic range as is the NTG-3. However it's a shotgun mic and highly directional. I am not sure it's the best mic for unattended nature recording. It is more the sort of mic for manually pointing at the sound source of interest.

3. The R09HR has a record menu option 'Max file size' that will allow you to set it to start a new file each time the limit is hit. The files are seamless too if you need to splice them back together. I'd use the 512 Mb setting.

4. It would work, but the NTG-3 is going to lack some bottom end and be a little sensitive to performer movement.

Regards Scott

 

[rastasean]

Wow, this is a really old post. At least the new poster searched and read everything! congrats.

I agree with Scott in stating that this is a shotgun mic and its highly directional. You may get noises from creatures in the direction its pointed but if they are outside that rage (i.e. far right or far left), it most likely will not record that. If you already own the mic, try it out. I own this microphone and have been impressed with the very narrow pattern of it. I was able to pick people's voices up from my apartment and they were ~ 50 feet away...they were speaking spanish so I didn't know what they were saying.

if you plan to leave it unattended for several hours, go with the smallest file that way you don't have to edit out so much and you're able to dump useless files.

If you are interested in using a mono microphone to record music and instruments, set your recorder in mono. Personally, I would just use the r09 and put in close to the guitar to get a stereo image.   

[John Bobson]

My questions are:

1)   How do you protect an unattended mike from rain and snow? Build a little tent over it? Wrap it?
2)   The frequency response of the NTG-3 is fairly flat which will work well for sound in the human range. However some of the mammals I want to record could have vocalizations beyond human range and I would like to see if I can get a visual sonogram of vocalizations say lower than we can hear (not worried about bats). Will my proposed set up be able to do this?
3)   I would like to be able get high quality unattended recordings for about 8 hours. What would be the best settings on the R09HR to do this and am I correct in thinking it will close the file and start a new one when file size limits are hit? Is this firmware rev level dependent?
4)   Finally I would also like to record acoustic blues session with my son and I on the porch. I’m pretty sure I will be able to do this quite well with this set up but would appreciate it if someone could confirm.

1. There have been quite a few posts on protecting mics overnight. Generally I have wrapped the mic very tightly with a layer of cling-film. Made no discernible difference to the audio. Make sure the capsule has a single tightly stretched layer.

See this thread for a more general discussion - http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,108390.0.html

2. I use either an NT4 or AT3032 pair in the field. Both are capable of recording into the ultrasonic range as is the NTG-3. However it's a shotgun mic and highly directional. I am not sure it's the best mic for unattended nature recording. It is more the sort of mic for manually pointing at the sound source of interest.

3. The R09HR has a record menu option 'Max file size' that will allow you to set it to start a new file each time the limit is hit. The files are seamless too if you need to splice them back together. I'd use the 512 Mb setting.

4. It would work, but the NTG-3 is going to lack some bottom end and be a little sensitive to performer movement.

Regards Scott

 

Thanks for the feedback Scott. You just made my day. I really wanted the NT4 but the weather thing was driving me to NTG-3. I read the weatherproofing posts and I'm now confident I can still use the NT4 which is a much better fit for my applications and protect it enough to still use it in inclement weather. I think I will try the cling wrap method first. It sounds like the NT4 will work better for unattended recording, can pick up ultrasonic and will work better for acoustic blues outside. Cheaper too ...

Wow, this is a really old post. At least the new poster searched and read everything! congrats.

I agree with Scott in stating that this is a shotgun mic and its highly directional. You may get noises from creatures in the direction its pointed but if they are outside that rage (i.e. far right or far left), it most likely will not record that. If you already own the mic, try it out. I own this microphone and have been impressed with the very narrow pattern of it. I was able to pick people's voices up from my apartment and they were ~ 50 feet away...they were speaking spanish so I didn't know what they were saying.

if you plan to leave it unattended for several hours, go with the smallest file that way you don't have to edit out so much and you're able to dump useless files.

If you are interested in using a mono microphone to record music and instruments, set your recorder in mono. Personally, I would just use the r09 and put in close to the guitar to get a stereo image.   

Thanks to you also rastasean, I realize it was an old thread but it covered so much of my situation i was torn between adding to it and starting a new one. Also thanks for recognizing that I read many many posts here before asking the same old questions. There really is a treasure trove of information here. Good idea about small files too...I  like to work smarter not harder.

I told the shop I'm buying from I wanted to get a few things clarified before i pulled the trigger and you guys have done that for me in spades. Thanks very much and I look forward to spending lots of time here. g

[digifish_music]

Thanks for the feedback Scott. You just made my day. I really wanted the NT4 but the weather thing was driving me to NTG-3. I read the weatherproofing posts and I'm now confident I can still use the NT4 which is a much better fit for my applications and protect it enough to still use it in inclement weather. I think I will try the cling wrap method first. It sounds like the NT4 will work better for unattended recording, can pick up ultrasonic and will work better for acoustic blues outside. Cheaper too ...

Just make sure you wrap each capsule close/tight. You want to eliminate as much air as possible in the enclose space to reduce the possibility of condensation if it gets cold.

Regards Scott