Topic: Mic type - newbie question, sorry

[L.B.]

Sorry about being a newbie at this 

On a rough note, could one say that cardioid mics are for outdoor big concerts, stadiums and the like, and binaural mics are for smaller venues?

[Belexes]

Sorry about being a newbie at this 
On a rough note, could one say that cardioid mics are for outdoor big concerts, stadiums and the like, and binaural mics are for smaller venues?

I like omni's is small venues with excellent acoustics with no drunks/talkers around, otherwise I opt for cardioids.

I haven't taped many stadium shows, so I will let others weigh in there.

[SmokinJoe]

Generally speaking cardioids are suitable for most applications.  Binaural mics (omnis) are primarily used for stealth taping because they generally happen to be small enough to be inconspicuous.  When you are stealthing with binaurals it's generally not because they "sound better" it's because it's this or nothing.

Inside a busy, chatty club is actually where directional mics really shine.

[JackoRoses]

its ok go ahead, the search function is broke anyway and all the members of the board like to
play the part of the search feature once a day.

[L.B.]

Binaural mics (omnis) are primarily used for stealth taping

Sorry, but what is meant by stealth?

[Belexes]

Binaural mics (omnis) are primarily used for stealth taping

Sorry, but what is meant by stealth?

That's recording without the express consent of the venue/band with a small rig, usually the mics attached to your person.

[L.B.]

Binaural mics (omnis) are primarily used for stealth taping

Sorry, but what is meant by stealth?

That's recording without the express consent of the venue/band with a small rig, usually the mics attached to your person.

OK, that's me then 

[SmokinJoe]

Cardioids are "directional mics".  If you can point them more or less in the direction of the stacks they will generally sound better than omnis in a chatty crowded place because it will reject some of that side/back chatter.

Binaurals are "omnidirectional mics".  You don't have to be as fussy about how they are pointed... but they pick up all around.

Before this thread take a turn for the worse, I repeat the party line "Taperssection.com does not condone stealth taping and we should not get into discussion of how to do it", so please don't ask for ideas on how to mount mics etc.

[L.B.]

Thank you very much for explaining this to me. Please correct me if I am wrong in the following...

Cardioids are "directional mics".  If you can point them more or less in the direction of the stacks they will generally sound better than omnis in a chatty crowded place because it will reject some of that side/back chatter.

I will then use my Church-Audio CA-14 for the stadium shows this summer, standing in the pit.

Binaurals are "omnidirectional mics".  You don't have to be as fussy about how they are pointed... but they pick up all around.

I will then use my Core Sound LCB for the local shows in a venue of approx 200 silent people sitting down.

Before this thread take a turn for the worse, I repeat the party line "Taperssection.com does not condone stealth taping and we should not get into discussion of how to do it", so please don't ask for ideas on how to mount mics etc.

OK, I'll leave it there then.

[Gutbucket]

Sorry about being a newbie at this 

No problem, everyone of us was at one point. Welcome to the board.

On a rough note, could one say that cardioid mics are for outdoor big concerts, stadiums and the like, and binaural mics are for smaller venues?

No.

First a few basic definitions-
As stated by others, cardioids are directional mics.  They have a pickup pattern that is most sensitive to sound in the front half of the microphone and progressively less sensitive to sound that approaches from the back half the microphone.

Omnidirectional mics are equally sensitive to sound in all directions.  In reality they become somewhat directional at high frequencies depending on the size of the mic, but not nearly as much as a cardioid pattern.  Binaural mics are nothing but small omnidirectionals. You will also sometimes hear them referred to as lavaliere mics.  Those omnis are so small that they do not become directional until very high frequencies, often so high that they are close to perfectly omnidirectional.

Now for a few words on typical usage and opinions-
All things being equal, omnis can often sound more natural than cardioids for a few reasons I won't go into here.  But of course all things are rarely equal.  Your question simplifies things a bit too much, but in someways exactly the opposite is true:  omnis are often a great choice for big outdoor venues and cardioids can often be a better choice for recording in small rooms and less than ideal situations.  But that's way over simplifying things and isn't always true.

Great recordings can be made with both types of microphone, but they require different techniques and approaches.  Generally, a number of factors including the recording situation, the performance space and the type of music are all important to consider when determining which technique to use.  The choice of a particular technique then determines which type of microphone is appropriate. There are no hard and fast rules as to which is best.  It really depends on the recording situation, what qualities you value most in your recordings and which techniques you prefer to use to get there.

Spend some time exploring the site and you'll find plenty of information on various techniques and appropriate mic types for your recording situation and goals.  Try to get a feel for general trends of use instead of accepting the first answer you come across.  Read critically and be on the lookout for opinions masquerading as facts. Then make a lot of recordings and play with the variables and  develop your own opinions.

Then we can argue about them and have fun defending our personal sacred cows.

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

Sorry about being a newbie at this 

On a rough note, could one say that cardioid mics are for outdoor big concerts, stadiums and the like, and binaural mics are for smaller venues?

"Cardioid" is a type of mic.  "Binaural" is a mic pattern. 

Cardioid mics record what's in front of them.

Binaural mics are those (of any kind) that are places on either side of your head (where your ears are), or on either side of a baffle.  This simulates what its like to hear the music, as your head (or the baffle).

The Core Sound Binaurals, I think, are Omni Mics. 

Terry

[cybergaloot]

The way I look at it is that the binaural technique is more about the experience than the music alone, if music is what you are recording. Binaural recordings are supposed listened to with headphones and are supposed to recreate the sounds the way you ears would pick them up. What it doesn't take into account is the full psycho-acoustic effect. When you are at a show, you focus on the stage and your brain helps sort through all the sounds coming to you from all directions. With a binaural recording you don't get the visual clues or other physical clues so its not "exactly" like being there and you do get the other sounds that your brain had filtered out originally. There is the physics of sound and there is the psychology of sound, both are important in the real world. You can recording the physical part. Capturing the psychological part is damn near impossible. Binaural can be cool but if you want to record shows, burn them to CD and play them in your car ... get the cardioid mics and aim them at the source of the sound.

[Gutbucket]

.."Binaural" is a mic pattern.

That's incorrect Terry.  Binaural is a technique not a pattern.  'Binaural' microphones have an omnidirectional pattern and can be used for other omni techniques other than binaural recording.

The Binaural recording technique places the microphones as close as possible to the opening of the ear canal for dedicated playback over headphones which Walter mentions above.  More commonly, people will place mics near, but not in their ears, essentially using their head as a baffle without including the frequency effects of the outer ear.  That allows for better playback over speakers and for people using headphones that have different shaped ears than the recordist.

Binaural can be cool but if you want to record shows, burn them to CD and play them in your car ... get the cardioid mics and aim them at the source of the sound.

Opinion alarm.  I happen to hold a counter view. Though I rarely make binaural or 'near the ear' recordings, I prefer to use omnis when possible and use other techniques.  Plus, I've heard some outstanding 'head' recordings over speakers.  That opinion isn't incorrect, but it's not the only way.

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

.."Binaural" is a mic pattern.

That's incorrect Terry.  Binaural is a technique not a pattern.

You're right, I misspoke...

T

[cybergaloot]

Binaural can be cool but if you want to record shows, burn them to CD and play them in your car ... get the cardioid mics and aim them at the source of the sound.

Opinion alarm.  I happen to hold a counter view. Though I rarely make binaural or 'near the ear' recordings, I prefer to use omnis when possible and use other techniques.  Plus, I've heard some outstanding 'head' recordings over speakers.  That opinion isn't incorrect, but it's not the only way.

You are right, Lee. I was working off the assumption that the OP was going to wear the mics near or on his head to record to an electric band in what would be a noisy environment. And even then, if used correctly in the right environment, omnis could work quite well, but I think a newbie would be better off in that situation with cards. More music, less chatter. There are always exceptions. Poorly aimed cards can suck too. And yes, I've made "head recordings" that sound fine over speakers but you aren't going to get the full binaural effect.

I'd also like to point out to no one in particular that wearing mics doesn't automatically equal stealth recording. Sure, that's one way the stealth guys work (no secret there) but there are plenty of tapers who use the technique for bands with open policies. If you can't use a stand or clamp on somewhere, what are you going to do? Become the stand of course!