Bass roll off setting question

[AndyLGR]

I use an SP-SPSB-8 and usually to set the bass roll off to 160hz. In the past I used to set it at a lower value, but since getting some bad bass distortion at a particular gig then I upped what I set it to.

I recorded a gig last year at Nottingham arena in the UK and the 160hz setting only just about coped, but I got a bit of distortion on the bass drum on a couple of tracks, which I was able to make better afterwards using cooledit.

But I'm interested to know tapers thoughts on what they set theres to? Do you set it lower and edit it afterwards or just go high with the setting?

One thing that concerns me is that if I set it to a lower setting than 160hz that I will get distortion from the bass drum which is difficult to remove.

[Church-Audio]

I use an SP-SPSB-8 and usually to set the bass roll off to 160hz. In the past I used to set it at a lower value, but since getting some bad bass distortion at a particular gig then I upped what I set it to.

I recorded a gig last year at Nottingham arena in the UK and the 160hz setting only just about coped, but I got a bit of distortion on the bass drum on a couple of tracks, which I was able to make better afterwards using cooledit.

But I'm interested to know tapers thoughts on what they set theres to? Do you set it lower and edit it afterwards or just go high with the setting?

One thing that concerns me is that if I set it to a lower setting than 160hz that I will get distortion from the bass drum which is difficult to remove.

What mics are you using. Bass roll of does not eliminate distortion. Why because the distortion is happening before the bass roll off in your mics.. All bass roll off does is mask the distortion in the low frequencies the distortion harmonics are still in the audible band even after bass roll off. Many people believe bass roll off fixes distortion it simply does not. All it does is cover up the low frequency distortion. But does not solve the problems of the harmonic distortion above the roll off point also the best we can do with a passive roll off on most battery boxes is only 6db per octave. Still plenty of distortion there just 6 db lower in level This distortion has an adverse effect on the way the music is reproduced and the overall quality you end up with.

Chris

[AndyLGR]

What mics are you using. Bass roll of does not eliminate distortion. Why because the distortion is happening before the bass roll off in your mics.. All bass roll off does is mask the distortion in the low frequencies the distortion harmonics are still in the audible band even after bass roll off. Many people believe bass roll off fixes distortion it simply does not. All it does is cover up the low frequency distortion. But does not solve the problems of the harmonic distortion above the roll off point also the best we can do with a passive roll off on most battery boxes is only 6db per octave. Still plenty of distortion there just 6 db lower in level This distortion has an adverse effect on the way the music is reproduced and the overall quality you end up with.

Chris

Thats interesting, I didnt know that.

So will having a good set of cardiods mics elimate the need to add bass roll off?

So basically my mics are crap. Im not sure what my mics are to honest, I was given them a few years ago. Heres a link to a picture of them if that helps.



We spoke by email the other day Chris, I was enquiring about your CA11 and CA14 mics and you asked the question if my bass  roll off can be turned off.

I now have an edirol r09, with the sp-spsb-8. Lets say I  just added some CA14 mics to my rig, would the bass roll off need to be swtiched off using CA14's too?

[Church-Audio]

What mics are you using. Bass roll of does not eliminate distortion. Why because the distortion is happening before the bass roll off in your mics.. All bass roll off does is mask the distortion in the low frequencies the distortion harmonics are still in the audible band even after bass roll off. Many people believe bass roll off fixes distortion it simply does not. All it does is cover up the low frequency distortion. But does not solve the problems of the harmonic distortion above the roll off point also the best we can do with a passive roll off on most battery boxes is only 6db per octave. Still plenty of distortion there just 6 db lower in level This distortion has an adverse effect on the way the music is reproduced and the overall quality you end up with.

Chris

Thats interesting, I didnt know that.

So will having a good set of cardiods mics elimate the need to add bass roll off?

So basically my mics are crap. Im not sure what my mics are to honest, I was given them a few years ago. Heres a link to a picture of them if that helps.



We spoke by email the other day Chris, I was enquiring about your CA11 and CA14 mics and you asked the question if my bass  roll off can be turned off.

I now have an edirol r09, with the sp-spsb-8. Lets say I  just added some CA14 mics to my rig, would the bass roll off need to be swtiched off using CA14's too?

Most cardioid's lack bass compared to omni mics.. So as a general rule we dont use bass roll off for cardioid mics unless we are trying to reduce wind noise. With omni mics 9 times out of 10 you want to have it on.
Chris

[shaggy28]

his response will be much better than mine, but i have the CA11's and just borrowed the CA14s for a few weeks to try out. I also have his 9100 preamp and an R09. Up until recently i've always used the pre, but the wire between pre/R09 shorted so i got to see the mics without the pre. Those mics don't even need a preamp if you're recording anything with volume. Got three shows in a row of Ani d last week, two with and one without the pre. The one without the pre sounds better actually because the crowd was better behaved. There was no noticable difference in the music. But yeah, his mics alone would make a huge difference. blah

[mblindsey]

So basically my mics are crap. Im not sure what my mics are to honest, I was given them a few years ago. Heres a link to a picture of them if that helps.

This doesn't answer your bass roll off question, but...

The picture is fuzzy, but they kind of look like my Core Sound low cost binaurals.  I've made some great recordings, and some not so great recordings, with my CSB's.  I wouldn't call them "crap", if that is what you have.  They do well in the right situation, and I've never used the bass roll off on mine.  I remove bass in post, if needed.

On closer inspection of your post, I'm not sure you would be plugging CSB's into a SP-SPSB-8.  Regardless, they look like Panasonic WM60-ish caps.  Again, not total "crap" if the stars align for you. 

I've heard recordings with church mics, and know two local church audio mic users, and you would be pleased with them if you feel like a change.

--Michael     

[AndyLGR]

Thanks everyone for the input.

Again, not total "crap" if the stars align for you.

You are spot on here. Out of 6 shows recorded last year I got a couple of absolute blinders, one at a small club and the other in a big arena at the front, everything went perfect those nights, yet others I've struggled.

I've heard some of the results from other people using both SP-CMC-8 and also the CA-11's. Both are definitely better than mine and its prompted me to change them to something else.

[mblindsey]

Thanks everyone for the input.

Again, not total "crap" if the stars align for you.

You are spot on here. Out of 6 shows recorded last year I got a couple of absolute blinders, one at a small club and the other in a big arena at the front, everything went perfect those nights, yet others I've struggled.

I've heard some of the results from other people using both SP-CMC-8 and also the CA-11's. Both are definitely better than mine and its prompted me to change them to something else.

Practice makes perfect (or close enough for me). 

I've used my CSB's enough to know where to stand...levels to set...etc...

If I had a need to use small mics more often, I would buy the Church Mics based on trusted reviews...and more importantly, the samples I've heard.

If I used small mics exclusively, well...I might consider some of more expensive options.  But, I digress....

--Michael

[acidjack]

As the prior poster indicated, looks like some old Core Sounds or something using similar hardware.

I suspect what you are doing is plugging into the R-09's MIC input rather than line-in.  I used CSB's for years including directly in front of the stacks at loud shows, and I use Sound Professionals' own mics with the SPSB-8 and NEVER have had distortion.  The only shows I have ever recorded that had distortion were ones where I didn't run mics through a power source (i.e., plugged directly into the mic input without using any battery box) or didn't know better and used the mic inputs.

While Core Sounds' more expensive models I believe are modified to handle higher sound pressure levels, I would think for most loud rock shows, as long as you run CSB>SPSB-8>LINE IN on R-09, you should be fine.  Try that before you spend more money on mics.

If you're running line in and still getting distortion, then those mics probably can't handle the high SPLs. Any of the current mic manufacturers - Core Sound, Sound Pros or Church - can get you something to work with that battery box. 

I use an SP-SPSB-8 and usually to set the bass roll off to 160hz. In the past I used to set it at a lower value, but since getting some bad bass distortion at a particular gig then I upped what I set it to.

I recorded a gig last year at Nottingham arena in the UK and the 160hz setting only just about coped, but I got a bit of distortion on the bass drum on a couple of tracks, which I was able to make better afterwards using cooledit.

But I'm interested to know tapers thoughts on what they set theres to? Do you set it lower and edit it afterwards or just go high with the setting?

One thing that concerns me is that if I set it to a lower setting than 160hz that I will get distortion from the bass drum which is difficult to remove.