Topic: Need Help in choosing a recorder

[MFudge]

I will be joining a religious order this summer.  I wanted to record the services.  The order has a long music tradition with Gregorian Chant and also with polyphonic classical mass settings.  The main church is a large Basilica that is marble and granite.  There are two large organs and normally only one is used (except on feasts when two are used). 

I was told to develop a hobby while I was there.  I thought that I would start recording and editing the music.  Since I will be moving half way around the world, I would be able to share this with the people back home.

I do not have a lot of money to spend.  Maybe $500 max.  I have been reading a lot of forums and have been talking to people.  But, it seems the more information I get, the more confused I get. 

Whatever recorder I get will need to be able to:

1) Be started and left alone.  I will be able to set it up, but beyond that I will not be able to make adjustments during the services.
2) Needs to be fully battery powered.
3) Max recording time would be 4 hours (and that is very rare).  Normal recording time would be 20 minutes for the offices and 90 minutes for mass.  Probably at least 10 minutes of recording would need to occur before the service starts.
4) Mic placements will never be optimal and they will need to be close together.

So far the suggestions have revolved around: Digital Recorder, condenser mics and preamps.

Any solid recommendations for a complete set-up would be greatly appreciated.  Please keep in mind my budget.

Thanks,

Michael

Update:
A friend has provided me with a Marantz PMD-670, case, mics (small matched pair condenser mics) and cables.

This will save me some money.  So, I am wondering how would the Church Audio mics work with a PMD-670?  Do I still need the pre-amp?

[su6oxone]

I will be joining a religious order this summer. 

I was told to develop a hobby while I was there. 

Oh... errr...

The popular choice around here for your needs and budget is Edirol R-09HR for the recorder, with Church Audio CA-11 or CA-14 mics, and a Church Audio 9100 preamp.  You may have to buy used, but I think there are some of those floating around in the Yard Sale, and it should fit within or close to your budget. 

Have fun at your, err, religious order this summer! 

[MFudge]

Thanks for the reply.

Is there a benefit of going with the Church Audio mics or should I go with a larger mic design?

I don't need to be stealthy about this at all.  I can use a mic stand and whatever else.

[Dede2002]

I was told to develop a hobby while I was there. 

Well, there are lots of hobbies you can develop in a religious order.
It's good to know that taping is your choice.

[Jeremy Lykins]

Is there a benefit of going with the Church Audio mics?

The #1 benefit is high-quality at a low cost.  A close #2, 3, and 4 are easy set-up, care, and storage.  Plus, purchasing Church Audio equipment sounds like a divine inspiration for your situation. 

[J.Maye]

You could maybe get a set of SP4 mics, a UA5, and an iriver or JB3 for that same price point.

Or http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,116076.0.html for the mics, you should be able to get a digi mod Ua5 for ~$250 (maybe even less) with a battery/battery cable. Get a light stand off ebay for $40, a stand adaptor from B&H, toslink to mini optical cable, ($15-$20 total) and a used iriver H120 or JB3 ~$100. The only other thing you would need would be mic cables and and there are a lot of options there.

Of you could get the church audio setup for ~$275, an Iriver/JB3 for $100, an 1/8th to 1/8th cable, and be set. If you went the church audio route, you could probably get a used Edirol Ro9 and you would be recording in 24 bit.

Personally, Id go with the church audio stuff but thas's just me.  

[bgreen]

  Plus, purchasing Church Audio equipment sounds like a divine inspiration for your situation. 

Ba dump bump ching

He's here all week folks

lol


The church stuff paired with the edirol r-09HR is probably, in my humble opinion probably the best equipment you'll get for that budget. I run mine as a second setup in open taping situations. They do look funny on a big stand up there all by themselves, but they do a solid job, time and time again.

[Belexes]

Size isn't everything...at least when it comes to mics. You get a lot of bang for your buck with Church Audio mics.  No one should be pointing and laughing.

[MFudge]

Thank you for your suggestions.  A few of my friends work in broadcast and this is very different from the field recorder set-ups that they have been suggesting.

How would a set-up like this work in a large stone church?  The nave is about the size of a football field.  I drew a really bad layout of it.  To give you an idea of where I will be sitting I put a dot on one of the red pews.  The red lines are pews.  The blue lines are steps.  The acoustics are very good.  If I were to talk to the person sitting next to me, it could be heard anywhere in the church.  People do not provide a lot of absorption, since the seating areas do not take up much of the square footage, nor do they take up much of the volume.  The ceiling height is probably about 70 feet.

I am assuming since the ca-11 is a cardoid pattern, the large echo and delays won't turn it overly muddy.




As you can see, there is a reason why I didn't become an architect. 

My only experience with recording is with studio equipment and soundboard recording with room mics.  Recording from a small device is new to me.  So, I want to make sure I get the right stuff.

Thanks,

Michael

[Kevin T]

Going out on a limb here

Zoom H2 internals OR with the same Church mics & preamp as an alternative. Do a google search on H2 in churches. For some reason  something "magical" happens in ambient spaces with the 4 mics on the Zoom I'd go as far as to say the H2 "Likes Churches"

Flame away

Kevin T

[taperwheeler]

I'd look into the sound pro's at mics as well.  They were designed for church applications(?) and have switchable caps that will give you options.

[MFudge]

A friend has provided me with a Marantz PMD-670, case, mics (small matched pair condenser mics) and cables.

This will save me some money.  So, I am wondering how would the Church Audio mics work with a PMD-670?  Do I still need the pre-amp?

Thanks,

[J.Maye]

^ Nice friend. 

You either need the pre and go line-in, or you need something to step the P48v down to 9v for the mics and use the XLR inputs. 

[rjp]

A friend has provided me with a Marantz PMD-670, case, mics (small matched pair condenser mics) and cables.

I'd seriously consider getting something like the Busman BSC1 set if you have the PMD-670 - then you'd get four sets of mic capsules (omni, subcard, standard cardioid, and hyper) to play with.

[sunjan]

A friend has provided me with a Marantz PMD-670, case, mics (small matched pair condenser mics) and cables.

Find out what mics you're getting in the bundle, and what capsules they come with. I assume they're phantom if your friend uses them with the PMD670, so technically you're good to go.
If the mics are too basic, or comes with the wrong pattern, upgrading to BSC1 is a good investment, and gives versatility for tricky acoustics in the room.

Oh, and get a stand. Maybe your friend has one too?