Topic: iriver & UA5 setup question

[mmadd29]

I need some advice on configuring my rig for a show this weekend.  I run superlux mics > UA5 > optical out to iriver h120.

The UA5 has the digi-mod

I just bought a video camera.  My first plan was to just dub the audio to the video using either Vegas or Adobe.

I was thinking since my vid camera has a A/V in I could just output the source from the iriver to the camera, I'd prefer to use the line out, but since the iriver is in digital mode, I don't think that iriver will allow an analog out.  I though about using the headphone jack, but I'm uncertain if that will even work, or that the level would be way to hot.  My understand on the UA5 is that the headphones out or line out doesn't work the digi-mod.  I could easily be wrong.

The reason I'd like to do this is that I could strip the audio from the file, master and put back without having to do any sync.

Anyone do something like this before?

I apologize if this is in the wrong forum....

[T140V]

the UA-5 will output both digital/analog signals...simply run rca's out of the UA-5 to the camera & opitcal to the h120.

[mmadd29]

the UA-5 will output both digital/analog signals...simply run rca's out of the UA-5 to the camera & opitcal to the h120.

Thanks for the info.....

My assumption is the output will be based on the input levels like on the iriver?

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The reason I'd like to do this is that I could strip the audio from the file, master and put back without having to do any sync.

You should still have to unless the camera accepts a digital source (and not resample the digital inbound signal). Even though the clock is supposed to be 44.1khz, over the course of an hour, it will slip by seconds in either direction (as little as a half a second, as much as 8 or 9 in my experience, depends on each individual peice of hardware used).

The plan on having the RCAs go to the camera and the digital to the h120 works, but you'll need to re-clock the h120 source to the camera source  before importing it. You still need the audio in on the camera as the basis for syncing to the video, but you'll have to re-clock (for lack of a better term) the h120 source before importing if you want it to work well. See the link below under mixing two sources (your just replacing, but the principle of getting them to run together still stands) and read over the stretching or resampling articles:

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,117279.0.html

[mmadd29]

You should still have to unless the camera accepts a digital source (and not resample the digital inbound signal). Even though the clock is supposed to be 44.1khz, over the course of an hour, it will slip by seconds in either direction (as little as a half a second, as much as 8 or 9 in my experience, depends on each individual peice of hardware used).

Wow, that is quite a difference

The plan on having the RCAs go to the camera and the digital to the h120 works, but you'll need to re-clock the h120 source to the camera source  before importing it. You still need the audio in on the camera as the basis for syncing to the video, but you'll have to re-clock (for lack of a better term) the h120 source before importing if you want it to work well. See the link below under mixing two sources (your just replacing, but the principle of getting them to run together still stands) and read over the stretching or resampling articles:

I have not read the article, but I know Abode does streching and resampling, the easier route maybe to just film the video, remove the sound, then replace with the source from the iriver.  I know this has worked.  I though I could skip a step by using the camera, but it doesn't look that way.

Thanks

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You should still have to unless the camera accepts a digital source (and not resample the digital inbound signal). Even though the clock is supposed to be 44.1khz, over the course of an hour, it will slip by seconds in either direction (as little as a half a second, as much as 8 or 9 in my experience, depends on each individual peice of hardware used).

Wow, that is quite a difference

Yeah, my Fostex and H120 are off by about 6 seconds (the h120 runs long) over about 65 minutes. I've done mixes in post before and had to resync stuff. A friend of mine had a MT2 that when I ran the fostex and M2 in 24/96 were only off by 3 seconds after 60.

The bummer is two identical pieces of gear won't sync up over long periods of time as the clocks are off just a little... So I cant have 2 H120s and get the same length. So resyncing isn't necessary, but it (IMHO) it improves the final product. good luck.

[mmadd29]

You should still have to unless the camera accepts a digital source (and not resample the digital inbound signal). Even though the clock is supposed to be 44.1khz, over the course of an hour, it will slip by seconds in either direction (as little as a half a second, as much as 8 or 9 in my experience, depends on each individual peice of hardware used).

Wow, that is quite a difference

Yeah, my Fostex and H120 are off by about 6 seconds (the h120 runs long) over about 65 minutes. I've done mixes in post before and had to resync stuff. A friend of mine had a MT2 that when I ran the fostex and M2 in 24/96 were only off by 3 seconds after 60.

The bummer is two identical pieces of gear won't sync up over long periods of time as the clocks are off just a little... So I cant have 2 H120s and get the same length. So resyncing isn't necessary, but it (IMHO) it improves the final product. good luck.

Then this certainly tells me that I should just take the audio add it Adobe......

[sunjan]

simply run rca's out of the UA-5 to the camera & opitcal to the h120.

My assumption is the output will be based on the input levels like on the iriver?

AFAIR, the UA-5 amplifies the outgoing analog signal up to line level, so it will be consistent.
But beware that you will have two unneccessary conversions:
1. because the UA5- doesn't allow analog pass-thru: D>A
2. because your camera will convert the analog signal back to digi again! A>D
Unless the ADC in the camera is outstanding, the result will be inferior to syncing the signal in post. I'd say don't bother patching for the UA-5, just work it out in post.

[mmadd29]

simply run rca's out of the UA-5 to the camera & opitcal to the h120.

My assumption is the output will be based on the input levels like on the iriver?

AFAIR, the UA-5 amplifies the outgoing analog signal up to line level, so it will be consistent.
But beware that you will have two unneccessary conversions:
1. because the UA5- doesn't allow analog pass-thru: D>A
2. because your camera will convert the analog signal back to digi again! A>D
Unless the ADC in the camera is outstanding, the result will be inferior to syncing the signal in post. I'd say don't bother patching for the UA-5, just work it out in post.

After all the replys, post is the way to go....

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I'd say don't bother patching for the UA-5, just work it out in post.

After all the replys, post is the way to go....

You need *some* audio on the video tape to use as your syncing measure (cause it's a real wench to do manually, I only did that once for a reason), but otherwise yes, I'd definitely recommend doing it in post if this is something you care about.

[rsimms3]

Another variable is how well the camera will handle the audio from it's own mic.  If the camera mic is going to be overloaded, then having the camera audio may be close to pointless because you really won't have a good reference to sync your iRiver audio to.  Syncing two audio sources is a hell of a lot easier than trying to sync audio to video that were never mated.  To cut down on cables, you could also run the headphone out of the UA5 which is a lot easier to adjust than the RCA outs which are located on the back of the unit where everything else, including the headphone volume adjust, are on the front. 

[mmadd29]

Another variable is how well the camera will handle the audio from it's own mic.  If the camera mic is going to be overloaded, then having the camera audio may be close to pointless because you really won't have a good reference to sync your iRiver audio to. 

I will find out this weekend, I have no idea.  The camera has no way to turn down the input level.

Syncing two audio sources is a hell of a lot easier than trying to sync audio to video that were never mated.  To cut down on cables, you could also run the headphone out of the UA5 which is a lot easier to adjust than the RCA outs which are located on the back of the unit where everything else, including the headphone volume adjust, are on the front. 

That is a good idea, although from previous replies, the timing will be off.  Although, as long as the begining is in sync, then I have a sync point....