Topic: upgrade from rode NT5s

[guosh86]

hi guys, i've been running my rode NT5s for 4-5 years now, and figured its time for an upgrade.
been searching through the forum and the net for a while, and i'm still rather unsure as to what to get.

the rode NT5s tend to be a little too bright for my liking, and the highs tend to sound rather pinched to my ears. i've tried eq-ing them down in recent times, but its still not really satisfactory

i tend to tape classical stuff, from the likes of string ensembles to wind bands and orchestras and was wondering what mics i should step up to? i'm currently running the rodes into a T+ UA-5 and 24/96 to microtrack 2, so i was wondering if anyone had the same setup and what would be a good mic to work with?

was looking for cardoids to run ORTF, so i've been looking at mics such as the earthworks sr71 and beyer mc930

what do you guys think? would really appreciate any opinions you guys have!

cheers,
guo

[Javier Cinakowski]

I would recomend you change your preamp before the mics.  The Rode NT5 are not bright mics.  There are the strangest opinions of these mics on the net.   If you search google you will find about half of the reviews say the mics are dull and warm and the other half of the reviews say they are bright.  Realistically the mics are very neutral and seem to take on the characteristics of the preamp that is behind them.  In your case, you are using a bright preamp.  Another option that I am not sure you have thought of is buying the omni capsules for your NT5's.   The NT5 omni capsule is thought of very very highly by some really well respected industry buffs...  I can assure you that the NT5 omni is anything but bright.  However, it still has a nice presence peak for distant recording.

Looking at the frequency graph the NT5 card is just like most of the competition, except that its presence peak is a bit different.  It is a nice peak, but it drops off rather quickly as you approach 20khz.  I find this to be a disadvantage when recording far/diffuse field sources.
Fortunatly, the Studio Projects C4 happens to use the same exact threading for their capsules, making them compatible with the NT5.  The C4 card has more of a extended presence peak and a slightly cleaner tone in the mid-range.  This might be counterproductive to your tastes though, as these are brighter than the NT5 card.  Additionally, the SP C4 hyper and omni capsules can bring even more varieties flavor to your NT5.

Frankly, I'm not sure you can do much better with another set of mics.  The NT5 aren't well liked around here (likely due to the presence peak roll-off), but in the classical recording circles, they arn't anything to sneeze at.

I'd get a warm modded preamp if I was you....

Let me know if you would like to hear some more samples.  Here is a recording of a jazz trio with the NT5 omni's  (Actually the NT6, but same capsules)
http://pmcjow.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pnds6flfXcLxnxwxaUj8pd9rjF5V_nMGYSjvSeQ73rCStRTlRoHyr8WJjtOFNqXNk8tRqlNmpU7NfQI1LgAK63dFGvSp9i9iq/MZ000001a03.mp3?download

[guosh86]

i haven't tried the NT45 omni capsules yet, but i've certainly heard good things about them. frankly i would love to get my hands on them but i just haven't found any local dealers for them yet. then again, i mess around with omnis a little too much during work so i'd like to get back to using cardoids when i'm doing stuff for friends

the NT5 has served me well in the last few years, but playing around with the DPAs at work just makes me want more 

i have a feeling you're right though, i haven't really thought about changing the preamp. hopefully it'll solve things, but it hasn't really worked for me in general as the hall i usually record in has some quirks and the back rows sound really distant despite how i position the mics. no problem with the smaller groups though

here's a sample of the wind band in rehearsal last week...


appreciate the reply, i'll go play around with the other pres and see how it turns out in a couple of days. thanks!


cheers,
guo

[su6oxone]

If you don't like the sound you're getting with your current setup I would recommend changing mics.  They will arguably make the biggest difference in how your recording sounds.  You might want to try Octava MC012.  There are a bunch of tapes on LMA with MC012 > UA5 > MTII that sound really good.  Check them out and see if you might be interested in them.  You could also try Neumanns, as they tend to be 'darker' sounding mics.  What's your budget for upgrading though?

[Javier Cinakowski]

I would typically agree with su6oxone, the mics are the most important to the sound, but the NT5 is a strange beast.  I don't want him to rule them out...
If he is looking for a completly different sound, then he should get new mics....

They were modeled after the neumans, sound kinda like the mc012.  The nt5's aren't really bright.
I wouldn't call this recording bright:
http://www.archive.org/details/dso2008-08-31.rodent6c

[jnorman34]

for classical material, you are going to want mics that have a very flat freq response curve.  DPA 4011s, schoeps cmc64s, akg c481s are all quite flat and accurate mics.  as mentioned above, the omni caps for the nt5s can be pretty effective, though more balanced for mid field work.  i just got through testing km184s vs AT4051s vs MC930s for a flute/piano duo, and all three of those mics are fiarly well suited to almost any kind of small acoustic ensemble recording.  sample clips from those mics are posted in the remote forum on gearslutz if you wish to hear them.

[guosh86]

thanks for the response guys,

re: su6oxone, i've heard the brass quintet sample of the mc012 on gearslutz and its nothing short of amazing. preferably i'd like to have something like that as i regularly record groups that are heavy in brass (got a mahler concert coming up!). however, i still tend to lean towards the beyer as it sounds more detailed to me. my budget's ~$700 so i figured the beyer would be a nice option

imo, the rode nt5 doesn't do so well on the bigger groups and brass. i quite like it on strings, and its probably my choice when recording stuff like guitar ensembles. i've got some samples of a group in my university recently that weren't too bad, but my major field is still of wind bands and orchestras since i tend to play in them too 

the thing is that my sectionmates (i'm a bass trombonist) usually feel that they don't sound natural on my tapes, and tend to be muffled, so i'm exploring other options without breaking the bank on a schoeps/neumann/dpa


re: jnorman34
i tend to work with DPAs and km184s at work, and i do like the sounds they produce, and it definitely makes post-production much easier.
however, after listening to your samples, i'm actually pleasantly surprised. i didn't like the kms on the mozart, sounded a little too thin to me. personally i prefered the AT4051s in this case as the mc930 did sound a little overcooked at times. but then again my friend who's a flute major in the conservatory tells me he would like to sound like the mc930s -shrug-

i've got a couple of km184s at work, but we've not used them as the main stereo pair. guess i'll go borrow them and try them out later, though i have a feeling now that i'll prefer the ATs and the beyer in general. but i guess i'll never know till i experiment with them in my setting. after working with omnis most of the time, i feel it'll be good to work with the cardoids again and see what i get. will post a clip of the DPA surround kit mix of the same band that we did last year... once i find it 

thanks for the help guys!

cheers,
guo

[ArchivalAudio]

I had run my RODE NT5's for about 5 year too...

I wnet with the Milab VM-44 links

so far I am super pleased with them.
the beyers are less money, and sound nice
I went with the VM-44 links because I like the "active" capsules
they were about $1200 from Full compass

you may find better deals now as they will have a real us distributor

have you considered the busman mics?
they sound very sweet and come with an array of caps to play with
+ Chris is a real and nice guy.

peace
-- Ian

[su6oxone]

however, i still tend to lean towards the beyer as it sounds more detailed to me. my budget's ~$700 so i figured the beyer would be a nice option

If you like the beyers and your budget's around $700, it sounds like a perfect match. 

If you're looking to buy new, a bunch of people here have gotten a new set for around $700 from Full Compass (or maybe it was Sweetwater) by mentioning that others have gotten that deal.  For a used set, you could probably find one here for around $600 or so.  Good luck!

[ricardo]

The NT5 has a very flat response but like most cardioids, LF rolls-off early.

If you are using it as the main stereo pair in a large hall, you'll find that boosting LF rather than turning down HF is what's required.  Try boosting below 150Hz.

A Schoeps CM4 is similar.

If you want a neutral cardioid, the Shure SM81 and Hebden Sound HS3020

http://www.hebdensoundgroup.co.uk/hebdensound/productsspecsingle.php?series=HS3020

are IMHO, the two best stick cardioids ever made.  They have the best LF; -3dB @ 50Hz.

Ignore all this if you want a mike that makes you sound like Cleo Lane, Elton John etc rather than yourself.

[guosh86]

i went to a local dealer for the beyer mc930s and he quoted me $1300   was pretty shocked by that, guess i'll have to wait around for a better deal

i went to the hebden sound site and heard their omnis - its probably what i'm looking for when i add flanking omnis. so i was just wondering, has anyone had experience with the nt45 omni capsule? i can't seem to find samples of them in the genre i'm working with, but i've read good reviews about it in general

ricardo, would you happen to any samples of the hebden hs3020? from what i've read, it seems that the omnis are more impressive, and i haven't been able to hear much of the cardoids.

thanks for all the help guys!

cheers,
guo