Topic: Edirol R-09HR vs. Marantz PMD-620 vs. Olympus LS-10

[nak700s]

Thank you for all the feedback between the R-09HR and the 620, but I've recently been hearing about the LS-10 and have been wondering how it stacks up.  It certainly looks impressive, and the 2gig internal memory doesn't hurt either!  I wonder if one could use the internal but still have a card in the slot?  It would be nice to know that if security was on the ball, I could just give up a blank card and still walk out with 2gigs!

I was examining an R-09HR yesterday and was very disappointed to see where they moved the mic (and input) jack to.  Although it's nice to get it off the top, why did they have to place it right next to , and in the way of, the level controls?

[Belexes]

I was examining an R-09HR yesterday and was very disappointed to see where they moved the mic (and input) jack to.  Although it's nice to get it off the top, why did they have to place it right next to , and in the way of, the level controls?

I use a r/a jack and rotate away from the gain controls. No issue.  The HR is such a big improvement over its older brother with a more solid build.

[Dede2002]

I was examining an R-09HR yesterday and was very disappointed to see where they moved the mic (and input) jack to.  Although it's nice to get it off the top, why did they have to place it right next to , and in the way of, the level controls?

I use a r/a jack and rotate away from the gain controls. No issue.  The HR is such a big improvement over its older brother with a more solid build.

That's what I do. No issues at all.

[rjp]

Thank you for all the feedback between the R-09HR and the 620, but I've recently been hearing about the LS-10 and have been wondering how it stacks up.  It certainly looks impressive, and the 2gig internal memory doesn't hurt either!  I wonder if one could use the internal but still have a card in the slot?

You can certainly use the internal memory when a card is inserted - this can be selected through the menus, or you can set the user-definable Fn button to switch between the two. The LS-10 will not auto-switch between the internal memory and the card, though.

My own policy is to use internal flash only when absolutely necessary, since flash has a finite number of read/write cycles. I haven't seen any information on the lifetime of the built-in flash, though. That being said, 2 GB isn't a whole lot if you're recording in 24-bit mode, even at 44.1 kHz. I've used SanDisk 4 GB and "Polaroid" (really PNY) 8 GB cards without any problems.

Be sure to load firmware version 1.10 if your LS-10 isn't preloaded with it. The 1.10 firmware seamlessly auto-splits files when they reach 2 GB.

As long as you take into account the baked-in bass rolloff on the internal mics and mic-in (but not line-in), you can get excellent results with the LS-10. Be sure to use the low sensitivity position for music recording - otherwise you'll get even more rolloff. EQ can take good care of rolled-off bass if necessary - but if you're using bass-heavy external mics, EQ isn't really necessary.

The internal mics are on the bright side, but that's what post-production is for. For my classical recordings, I haven't considered them to be excessively bright.

Line-in needs a hot signal - unity gain is at recording level 10.

Battery life is outstanding. I know I've been able to get at least 8 hours on a pair of alkaline AAs before chickening out and replacing them. Olympus claims 12 hours.

[su6oxone]

Can't think of any ways the LS10 is better than the R-09HR except that it's cheaper and skinnier, although longer as well.  Most here would probably recommend the R-09HR fwiw.

[Dede2002]

Can't think of any ways the LS10 is better than the R-09HR except that it's cheaper and skinnier, although longer as well.  Most here would probably recommend the R-09HR fwiw.

That's right  .

[John Willett]

Can't think of any ways the LS10 is better than the R-09HR except that it's cheaper and skinnier, although longer as well.  Most here would probably recommend the R-09HR fwiw.

Well - I actually went for the LS-10 over the R-09HR (though those two were the last on my short-list).

[nak700s]

And... do tell.  What were your findings?

[John Willett]

And... do tell.  What were your findings?

I find the LS-10 excellent.

Perfect and comfortable for hand-holding + a thread for stand-mounting.

Rubber feet that work fine if you put it on a table.

I am extremely happy with it.

I passed back to Olympus that there are only two things I would really like to see on the next version:-
1) optical digital in unified with teh line-in so you could use the LS-10 as a back-up with pro machines.
2) have the mic. i/p roll-off switchable on the mic. in sockets.

[spyder9]

Tascam DR-1.  I've had mine for over a year and still love it.  Own two of them.  Ran both simultaneously, all day, at Wanee.  New firmware works flawlessly.  And it sounds great too.  Nice warm sound.

I would only dump the DR-1 for the R-09HR.  The 620 has a high noise floor when compared to the DR-1 and the R09HR.  The LS-1 is very tinny compared to the other three.  LS-1 is more suitable for ENG than PA recording, IMO.

    

[fmaderjr]

The internal mics are on the bright side, but that's what post-production is for. For my classical recordings, I haven't considered them to be excessively bright.

rjp recently posted a link to a # of his classical recordings made with the LS10 internals. I downloaded movement 1 of the Vaughn Williams Sea Symphony and was very disappointed.
http://www.archive.org/details/uso20090531.rjp2496.flac24
A lot of it sounds decent, but at times it is painfully obvious that the recording was made with internals (or other substandard mics) and I am not particularly critical.  I could not have gotten any enjoyment from listening to it.

rjp-Do yourself a favor and invest in a Church Audio mic (even the ST-11 is a great mic) and a battery box. You will be amazed at the difference.

The LS10 may be a nice little recorder for use with external mics and handy for noncritical "point and shoot" type recordings with the internals, but the only small recorder I would make a critical recording with its internals is the Edirol R-09 Micsketeer mod from Church Audio.

[nak700s]

Thanks for that.  I have no intentions of ever using the internals on any of these recorders.  They are there and may end up being use as an emergency backup, but NEVER intentionally.  I am using Nak 700's and am very happy with the recordings I have been making either from the old days of cassette, the M1 that I currently use or the R-09 that is on loan to me.  I will be getting them modified and end up with an external pre-amp (probably from Church).  The main question for me is the actual recorder and as so many have pointed out, and I don't disagree, I will probably end up with the R-09HR.

[rjp]

A lot of it sounds decent, but at times it is painfully obvious that the recording was made with internals (or other substandard mics) and I am not particularly critical.  I could not have gotten any enjoyment from listening to it.

rjp-Do yourself a favor and invest in a Church Audio mic (even the ST-11 is a great mic) and a battery box. You will be amazed at the difference.

The real problem was that the chorus was too small, especially given its placement behind a huge orchestra. One whole row of the chorus was below the level of the last orchestra row (brass, woodwinds, and percussion). We had a shell behind us, but we really needed a 2:1 advantage over the orchestra (which wouldn't have even fit on stage). The room itself is acoustically dead.

As for mics and setup, the balcony rail was the only place I could go. Getting closer to the action would have helped a lot. I would have loved to run my AKG P170 cards, or maybe even a set of hypers or a mid-side setup, but I didn't have time to set up such a rig, as those of us in the chorus arrived about five minutes before the concert started.

The LS-10's standard pattern is rather wide, and I'm not about to try the switchable patterns, as I've read elsewhere that those tend to color the sound.

I agree that better mics make a difference - I've noticed that when I've run the 170s at my church. Sometimes, though, a full-size rig isn't practical.

For a contrast vs. the LS-10, there's also a Zoom H2 recording of the same concert. I strongly suspect Eric used an external mic into the mic-in, though... he used to use a MiniDisc and a single-point mic (Sony?) for his recordings.

[fmaderjr]

I would have loved to run my AKG P170 cards, or maybe even a set of hypers or a mid-side setup, but I didn't have time to set up such a rig, as those of us in the chorus arrived about five minutes before the concert started.

Sorry rjp-I should have noticed in your signature that you already has a set of decent externals in your arsenal. I didn't realize that the only reason you didn't use externals was due to set up problems.

That is why I love my Micsketeer R-09. If I need to set up quickly I can use it's internals and it sounds amazing.