Topic: EDIROL R-44 (PART IV)

[Ozpeter]

An experienced classical recording engineer I know uses a pair of R-44's regularly and has no drift issues in long concert recordings.  I have no idea why peoples' mileage varies in this matter.  I wonder whether anyone has tried testing what goes down the sync cable in use?  Just an initial signal to start/stop, or something continuous intended to prevent drift?

[Chadfish]

Yeah, that drift after 20 minutes seems odd between two machines of the same make. I have used the R-4 pro to record plays and concerts for 2-3 hour stretches, and it lined up great with audio from my video camera. Now my Zoom H4 was a drifting mo-fo, but not these Edirols from my experience. And why would the manual say the clocks are locked if they didn't? Could it be some form of user error?

[kirk97132]

Chad this was discussed in various  threads previously......Saying it could be some form of user error and stating it seems odd two devices run different shows that you don't quite understand how the decks work.   Do you know that two crystals, used for stabilizing the timing,  will not run the same independently?  A number of issues cause this including that it is just their nature, humidity & temperature to name a few.  If they do it is sheer coincidence.  Also there are misprints in manuals, especially when you take into account that in this case it is literally a one line statement at nearly the very last part of the very last page of the manual.  This description taken directly from Edirol R-44 website(where it is much easier to post correct information without reprinting hundreds of manuals):
Capture eight channels by linking two units
The Control Sync terminal enables synchronized operation of 2 units. Control the second unit from the master by simply connecting two with a stereo mini cable. The master unit can remotely control REC standby, REC start and REC stop of the slave unit. This function enables 8-channel recording in a compact space and at an affordable price.

Hey, call Edirol Tech support yourself (360) 594-4282 and tell them that two of the exact same models of R-44 when synced with the cable have a timing drift issue and see what they say. 

OR the search feature here on TS would reveal this:

UPDATE on drift issue.
   I just hung up the phone with Edirol Tech support.  It has been confirmed that the sync cord DOES NOT lock the clocks together.  And it is "very unlikely" that it will ever be addressed on this unit.  It is a combination of a hardware and software issue that keeps it from happening.  Other than getting an R-4 Pro the tech's suggestion was to stop the decks and restart them.  Which would keep restarting the clocks keeping them close.  He also stated he was not surprised that the drift issue started happening at about 20 mins.  SO, the final result is sync cord or not, the two decks will NOT run at exactly the same speed.  The Sync cord ONLY starts and stops the decks at APPROXIMATELY the same time.  Now you have it folks straight from the horses mouth.

OZpeter the R-4 pro does allow you to sync it's clock to an external source.  I had looked at that unit but the price VS the Tascam DR-680 cinched the deal for me.  Another strange but true fact is that a friends standalone Marantz CDR ran DEAD ON to my R-44 so it's possible that your friend got two decks that ran the same, or at least close enough to be consider the same.  My experience is that there can be some discrepancy that is not exactly audible, or at least not unpleasantly or noticeably audible as long as it is very small.  In the milliseconds range.  Beyond that I could hear it start to creep into a change in the sound.  The other thing that could be happening is that he stops and restarts the decks between numbers? 

[Chadfish]

Fair enough Kirkd.

I was just reacting to the description that after 20 min you could audibly hear two drum hits where one should be. My thinking was that even with units that are absolutely not locked, a time discrepancy like that is not common in my experience with Edirol gear (R-4Pro & R-44). Though I have read through over 100 pages of threads on the R-44 here, not all the esoteric findings of users have remained in my wee little mind. It starts to become a fog. So I apologize for possibly putting out bad info. When things don't go right for me my first troubleshooting course of action is to consider user error, especially since many report great record times with acceptable levels of drift. But knowing now that two R-44s can have that much clock variation further reinforces that I made the right choice by ordering a Busman DR-680 that will arrive Monday. Chris Johnson is carrying them pre-modded, with warranties.

[Ozpeter]

According to the Oade site, the R-44 has  "Word clock sync and start/stop remote control of 2 units but remote control function does not guarantee the exact same REC start time " - and I would have thought he'd know the inner workings of the machine.

Checking on my colleague's emails he reports that his pair remain in sync even when auto file splitting on long 24/96 concert recordings.

A mystery, until someone actually tests the output of the sync port (which I might try to do myself).

[Gutbucket]

I've heard reports of linked R-44s staying synced, and other people reporting that theirs did not.  FWIW, the clocks in my two original R-09's are very, very close and I haven't noticed much problem over the course of a 2hrs file (24/48, 2GB). 

[BodhiTaper]

Well, I got my power in/outs crossed the other day at a show and it looks like I fried the DC-in. The AA Battery works just fine but I can't get the recorder to power up using the plug. I called Roland and they said they no longer service the 44 and have no replacement parts.

What should I do? Do I now have a really expensive paper weight?

Crap. 

[bhadella]

Well, I got my power in/outs crossed the other day at a show and it looks like I fried the DC-in. The AA Battery works just fine but I can't get the recorder to power up using the plug. I called Roland and they said they no longer service the 44 and have no replacement parts.

What should I do? Do I now have a really expensive paper weight?

Crap. 

Are you sure that your cable isn't the problem?  Do you have a meter that you can use to check the cable and battery? 

[BodhiTaper]

I used the home wall adapter as well with no luck.

[cybergaloot]

Doesn't Busman mod these? Maybe he can help. Wont hurt to ask. I know Oade wont touch it unless he sold it.

[Gutbucket]

I called Roland and they said they no longer service the 44 and have no replacement parts.

Really? The R-44 is a current production model (as is the R-4 Pro).
The older, original R-4 was discontinued around the time the R-44 showed up, maybe the person you spoke with confused the two.

[bhadella]

I need the coax in on my R44 serviced.  Any suggestions on who to call (other than the Edirol/Roland hotline)?

[bhadella]

I just sent an email to Roland via support@rolandsystemsgroup.com and they confirmed that they do repair/support the R44.   The responder that can setup service is "Ted Rosen" <ted@rolandsystemsgroup.com>.

[rastasean]

I called them last week because my r09hr no longer turns on (I think its my fault) but in order to issue an RMA, it is $75/hour or something pretty high. Did Ted provide you a price?

[frogger]

Just read through some of the posts that had come in after my questions about syncing 2 units so thought I'd reply how we made out.  For the first set the slave machine started later than the master.  For the second set, that reversed.  However, once the start is synced, there does not appear to be any drift.  Now the hard part is deciding on the final mix.  We'll probably be trying this again on Thanksgiving.