cheap way to record 5.1 ? dvd with 5.1?

[twalker17]

I am trying to find a way to record audio for a concert in 5.1 or surround in general. Anyone know of a simple way to do that?
I have mics cables etc, looking for a recording device that will accept 5.1 I can pre mix the mics in stereo front then stereo back . and send them as 4 channels.... is there a dvd recorder that will allow for more than stereo inputs?

[boojum]

The simplest, but not the cheapest, that I know of is the Schoeps DMS, Double Mid-Side.  It requires two Schoeps Mk4's and an Mk8.  The software to decode the package into 5.1 is free.  It would also work with other cards/omnis and a figure eight mic.  I do not know if it would work as well as the Schoeps software is optimized for their mics, Mk4 and Mk8, I believe.

[notlance]

Yes, Double MS is probably the simplest way to get 5 channels.  All you need is three mics (two cards and a figure eight) and three channels.  The mics don't have to be Schoeps, nor do you have to use the Schoeps plug-in.  The cool thing about DMS is you can record only three channels and derive the 5 channels in post; no need to mix the 5 channels live.  DMS also uses only one mic stand, so it's as low profile as a stereo rig.

You can do DMS with four cards set 90 degrees apart, but then you'll have to record 4 channels or mix the L & R mics before recording to three channels.  I use a couple of Sennheiser MKH800 Twins set 90 degrees apart to do DMS, which is in effect four cards at 90 degrees, and I just record all four channels.  The Sennheisers work well in this situation, but they are not the low-cost solution.  What you have with the four cards at 90 degrees is Ambisonics without the Z (height) component.

I've recorded DMS not to derive 5 channels, but to be able to select any M mic pattern in post by combining the F and B mics.  Of course I could get a 5 channel mix from my DMS recordings at any time if I wanted to, and that's kinda cool.

[J.T.L]

Check my sig...1 mic, 1 cable, 1 deck and I can get mono, stereo, quad, 5.1, 6.1, 7.1 and 8.

http://www.soundfield.com/products/sps200.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambisonics

stereo samples on archive...

http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=sps200%20AND%20collection%3Aetree

eta: just saw topic subject and says cheap...what is your thoughts on cheap?

[dgillyerek]

what software products do people use to mix into 5.1 for burning to dvd / cd?

[page]

eta: just saw topic subject and says cheap...what is your thoughts on cheap?

The soundfield is the *easist* way that I know of. You don't have to dick around with setup very much. Another way to accomplish the same result is an omni and 2 8s. Either way (Cards or omnis), you could get a stereo mic (Peluso, Busman, or LSD2), then run a single cap mic above it. So maybe $700-1200 would be the bottom end of the mic cost spectrum if you were starting from scratch IMHO.

what software products do people use to mix into 5.1 for burning to dvd / cd?

Audacity will do the mix (just have a pen and paper handy for notes on which track is which before exporting). I gave up my DMS project at burning. 


edit:

One other way would be to follow the B&K/DPA school of thought and buy 5 cardioids and run them in a spaced star-fish style array. They have a picture of the setup on their site, it would be cheaper to buy cheaper cards and fashion the 5.1 mount, but I think you'll still run into the $800-1200 range starting from scratch (including the bar creation).

[WiFiJeff]

Another way to accomplish the same result is an omni and 2 8s.

Which you get in a Josephson C700(S), but of course then "cheap" is pretty much out the window. 

Jeff

[twalker17]

I guess I should have clarified.....

I have the ability to mic the venue in a way to get the following:
front mix would be a mono board feed,
2 - l/r lav mics for Crowd FX
and 2 l/r rear lav mics for more crowd FX.
make sense?

thus I wanted to simply use a small mackie ype board with direct unbalanced outs that could go into a DVD recorder that would let me get everything neatly onto a DVD.
then I can try and play with it / edit it in post.....

I wanted this as down and dirty as possible. also trying to keep it simple.
so my real question is now that I have all of the sources - video and 5 channels of audio....
is there a dvd recorder that will allow 4 or 5 channel ins or what could I use as a portable or software recorder to get what I am trying to achieve....

and by cheap I was thinking under $1000. since i already have everything down to the 'recorder' ....

thanks

[page]

Another way to accomplish the same result is an omni and 2 8s.

Which you get in a Josephson C700(S), but of course then "cheap" is pretty much out the window. 

Jeff

Bingo, thats where I got the idea and the related math from when I tried. 

so my real question is now that I have all of the sources - video and 5 channels of audio....
is there a dvd recorder that will allow 4 or 5 channel ins or what could I use as a portable or software recorder to get what I am trying to achieve....

and by cheap I was thinking under $1000. since i already have everything down to the 'recorder' ....

I recommend you do all that in post, I can't think of a DVD recorder that will accomplish that without feeding a digital signal first so now your lugging around a multi-channel AD as well.

I don't think there is a "easy/dirty" way of doing 5.1 short of the DPA method I mentioned above which doesn't require any mixing of the audio, but will still require the PCM > AC3 (I think it's AC3) encoding.