Topic: Schoeps help for newbie

[brad.bartels]

Need some microphone help with Schoeps microphones. I'm a newbie and diving in head-first. I've got hundreds of recordings and most of the really good ones seem to have been recorded with Schoeps mics so that's what I'm thinking to go with. Right now, I think I'll be using the Edirol R-09 HR, but the the Sony PCM-D50 or the Olympuss LS-10 are in the running as well. I'm thinking I'll need to record shows in both low-profile / stealth, as well as in an open format. I'm looking for a set of mics that will work for both situations. After going through the Schoeps product guide, I have the following questions that I would like some input on. For the kind of $$$ we're talking about, I want to get the right set of mics the first time:)

MKxx vs. CCMxx - is there a (performance) difference between these series of microphones? The CCMxx series seems much better suited if you should need to use them for stealth. If they perform the same, seems like a no-brainer. So, I'm rellay looking for a reason to consider the MKxx series over the CCMxx series - one obvious one is the ability to use different microphone capsules withe CMC6 mic amplifier - anything else?

CCM4 vs. CCM5 - is there an appreciable difference between the CCM4 and the CCM5 set to cardioid? If not, the CCM5 seems to be a better choice since you could use it as an omni as well (stealth recording very close to one of the speaker stacks - from what I've read an omni would be better suited for this...). Thoughts on this?

I do not see an alligatory clip or anything similar to that in the Schoeps accessories. If you should need to clip the mics to your hat or collar, is there a third-party clip or other solution for the CCM series?

Windscreens - do the standard windscreens (W5D) from Schoeps seem to be adequate for most outdoor applications (assuming normal wind conditions)?

CCM_L vs. CCM_U - any advantage to using the CCM_L over the CCM_U? The CCM_U is permanently attached while the CCM_L has a cable that plugs into the capsule if I'm reading it right. Unless it is likely that you'd want to plug something in between the mic and it's cable, seems like the CCM_U would be the way to go. Any extra connection can't be a positive. Again - let me know if I'm missing something.

With the info from Schoeps, I would say the CCM5 (so you could use it as a cardiod or omni) with the CCM_U option would be the way to go. You guys are the experts with the experience - I welcome any feedback on this choice or why I should consider a different option. Thanks so much.

BTW - I've debated long and hard over whether to go with the best or ultimate mics or something not quite as good (for a fraction of the price). The main reason I decided on the Schoeps is that I can't find hardly any of them used and at that they are almost the same price as new. So, if I decide I don't like them or don't use them, I figure I can get most of my money back by selling them. Am I deluding myself? Thanks again for any help on the subject.

[su6oxone]

Not too many tapers here seem to have the CCM series, although there are a few.  The MKs are nice because they are modular and easy to find used here and on other places.  You can easily stealth the MKs if you use the active cables, so I would say that you should go with the MKs if you're planning on doing more open than stealth, since you can utilize multiple caps (you may want hypers or subs in certain venues/locations), and the CCMs if you primarily stealth.  You can also go for the MK (caps only, not bodies) > NBox (pre/power made by a member here) as an alternative for stealthing (or open) as well. 

[sparkey]

I have the hypercards, which I love for recording in clubs and eliminating chatter.  Made real nice tapes from the section at String Summit last week using the DIN bar.

Not too many tapers here seem to have the CCM series, although there are a few.  The MKs are nice because they are modular and easy to find used here and on other places.  You can easily stealth the MKs if you use the active cables, so I would say that you should go with the MKs if you're planning on doing more open than stealth, since you can utilize multiple caps (you may want hypers or subs in certain venues/locations), and the CCMs if you primarily stealth.  You can also go for the MK (caps only, not bodies) > NBox (pre/power made by a member here) as an alternative for stealthing (or open) as well. 

[NOLAfishwater]

Need some microphone help with Schoeps microphones. I'm a newbie and diving in head-first. I've got hundreds of recordings and most of the really good ones seem to have been recorded with Schoeps mics so that's what I'm thinking to go with. Right now, I think I'll be using the Edirol R-09 HR, but the the Sony PCM-D50 or the Olympuss LS-10 are in the running as well. I'm thinking I'll need to record shows in both low-profile / stealth, as well as in an open format. I'm looking for a set of mics that will work for both situations. After going through the Schoeps product guide, I have the following questions that I would like some input on. For the kind of $$$ we're talking about, I want to get the right set of mics the first time:)

MKxx vs. CCMxx - is there a (performance) difference between these series of microphones? The CCMxx series seems much better suited if you should need to use them for stealth. If they perform the same, seems like a no-brainer. So, I'm rellay looking for a reason to consider the MKxx series over the CCMxx series - one obvious one is the ability to use different microphone capsules withe CMC6 mic amplifier - anything else?

CCM4 vs. CCM5 - is there an appreciable difference between the CCM4 and the CCM5 set to cardioid? If not, the CCM5 seems to be a better choice since you could use it as an omni as well (stealth recording very close to one of the speaker stacks - from what I've read an omni would be better suited for this...). Thoughts on this?

I do not see an alligatory clip or anything similar to that in the Schoeps accessories. If you should need to clip the mics to your hat or collar, is there a third-party clip or other solution for the CCM series?

Windscreens - do the standard windscreens (W5D) from Schoeps seem to be adequate for most outdoor applications (assuming normal wind conditions)?

CCM_L vs. CCM_U - any advantage to using the CCM_L over the CCM_U? The CCM_U is permanently attached while the CCM_L has a cable that plugs into the capsule if I'm reading it right. Unless it is likely that you'd want to plug something in between the mic and it's cable, seems like the CCM_U would be the way to go. Any extra connection can't be a positive. Again - let me know if I'm missing something.

With the info from Schoeps, I would say the CCM5 (so you could use it as a cardiod or omni) with the CCM_U option would be the way to go. You guys are the experts with the experience - I welcome any feedback on this choice or why I should consider a different option. Thanks so much.

BTW - I've debated long and hard over whether to go with the best or ultimate mics or something not quite as good (for a fraction of the price). The main reason I decided on the Schoeps is that I can't find hardly any of them used and at that they are almost the same price as new. So, if I decide I don't like them or don't use them, I figure I can get most of my money back by selling them. Am I deluding myself? Thanks again for any help on the subject.

I like the combination of CMC bodies + MK capsules b/c you can interchange the capsules. I have the MK5's and they are my go to capsule b/c I find myself running on stage for most shows.

how do you plan to power the microphones? 

[johnw]

If you go for a CCM, I would reccomend the ccm4v without the lemo. It is the best for stealthing IMO and sounds great open as well. Having no bodies allows for lower profile and the card pattern with the high freq bump is very versatile. I don't believe there is any audible difference between the ccm4V and the CMC6mk4v. All of the schoeps options you mentioned require P48 power and  none of the recorders you mentioned provide this.

I think your best bet for a recorder around the size of the others you mentioned is the Marantz 661. It would provide P48 and is not much bigger than the D50. I would reccomend buying one from Oade which is around $680.

So I would go CCM4V>661 assuming you don't want to run an external preamp. That's going to run you about $6000 all together.

If you're interested in an external pre, I would look into the Nbox or a used Sonosax or Schoeps preamp that can take a lemo connection. With the Nbox you could get the MK4V capsules, the Nbox and cables and an R09HR for around $4500.

[H₂O]

I believe someone on the board had a pair of CCM5's for sale about a year ago - may still have them - nashville phil I believe

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,105807.0.html

CCM5's are special order and pretty rare

Maybe you should look at CCM5>Sonosax MiniR82 - Probably the smallest highquality rig you can get

http://www.sonosax.ch/recorders/minir82/minir82_index.html

The MiniR82 is pricy though at about $4600 or so retail right now

[sparkey]

Cards are great...personally, I like having hyper-cards and sub-cards (although I only currently own hypers).  Hypers for the back of the room, subs for FOB or OTS.

If you go for a CCM, I would reccomend the ccm4v without the lemo. It is the best for stealthing IMO and sounds great open as well. Having no bodies allows for lower profile and the card pattern with the high freq bump is very versatile. I don't believe there is any audible difference between the ccm4V and the CMC6mk4v. All of the schoeps options you mentioned require P48 power and  none of the recorders you mentioned provide this.

I think your best bet for a recorder around the size of the others you mentioned is the Marantz 661. It would provide P48 and is not much bigger than the D50. I would reccomend buying one from Oade which is around $680.

So I would go CCM4V>661 assuming you don't want to run an external preamp. That's going to run you about $6000 all together.

If you're interested in an external pre, I would look into the Nbox or a used Sonosax or Schoeps preamp that can take a lemo connection. With the Nbox you could get the MK4V capsules, the Nbox and cables and an R09HR for around $4500.

[NOLAfishwater]

well if he has the cash, I would tell him to pick up Darktrain's 722 in the yardsale.

[DSatz]

There is absolutely no difference in performance or sound whatsoever between the modular microphones (CMC body plus MK capsule) and the compact microphones (CCM whatever). The only difference is the size, and the fact that the modular series lets you buy one pair of amplifiers (bodies) which you pay for once, and then you can buy any number of capsules (which cost less than CCMs) and interchange them on those same two amplifiers.

If you know the future, and you know that in that future you will never want to use any other capsules than one certain type, the CCMs could be preferable for the reasons you've already noted. But if you are going to buy other types of capsules beyond whatever you're going to get first, the modular series would be more flexible and economical. That's the tradeoff.

The CCM 4 (not "V") vs. the cardioid setting of the CCM 5 is not very different, but the CCM 5 has slightly more "shine" and "detail" in its sound due a very mild, broad (not "peaky") high-frequency elevation. The CCM 5 or the equivalent modular microphone (the CMC 65) is what Schoeps recommends most highly for people who are basically in the situation that you've described, and I would agree with that.

The CCM 5 is available only as an "L"-series microphone (there is no CCM 5 U, despite what their Web site unaccountably still says), but that's preferable anyway in terms of the mounting options that it gives you.

--best regards

[brad.bartels]

Thanks everyone for your input and help. Much appreciated.