Edirol R-09, CMC-8's and any other mics... Do I need to use a battery box?

[adrianf74]

I'm sure this has been asked umpteen million times before but search on here keeps letting me down, and I can't find anything definitive on google.

Last year, I got back into taping with an Edirol R-09.  I had a pair of Sound Professional CMC-8's that I bought back in late 2002 with their SP-SB-3 battery box with mini-9v's.

Did a bunch of shows last summer with the battery box via line-in; no issues.  However, I'd really like to lose the battery box. 

I'm actually picking up either a set of CA or GSAL omni's in the near future just to have them when I need them since card's aren't always the best option. 

I was recently told, by a mic manufacturer, that the R-09 will have no issues providing power to my CMC-8's and his mics as well providing plug-in power is turned on.   

I just did some recording tests at home and the recordings seemed fine without the box.  However, this won't replicate being in a louder environment. 

The show I'm going to tomorrow is at a 3000 seat theater and is not a rock show; it's a piano player/singer with a 2-piece band.  I'm not expecting it to be loud so I'm sure I could get away with this setup and just record directly.

Anybody have suggestions/criticisms?  All help is appreciated.

[paulbaptiste]

IF GSAL refers to Giant Squid, back the hell up!!!!!!!  My first advice

2nd.  Get a mini BB of Church here in the Retail space, cheap.

3rd:  Or replacing 2nd.  If you do tape quiet shows, like possibly the one tommorow, you might need more gain, and get rid of the battery box and get a CA9100 to act as preamp and battery box, and it's really not that much gear to carry around, get some velcro tape and put em back to back.  Just like 2 packs of cigarettes in your pockets and your covered.  Also recommend getting the mics minixlr modded and the same with 9100 so you never have to worry about cables coming out. 

MY 2 cents

and good luck

[sunjan]

Last year, I got back into taping with an Edirol R-09.  I had a pair of Sound Professional CMC-8's that I bought back in late 2002 with their SP-SB-3 battery box with mini-9v's.

Did a bunch of shows last summer with the battery box via line-in; no issues.  However, I'd really like to lose the battery box. 
...
I was recently told, by a mic manufacturer, that the R-09 will have no issues providing power to my CMC-8's and his mics as well providing plug-in power is turned on.   

The show I'm going to tomorrow is at a 3000 seat theater and is not a rock show; it's a piano player/singer with a 2-piece band.  I'm not expecting it to be loud so I'm sure I could get away with this setup and just record directly.

On your description, I guess you'll be taping Tori Amos at Massey Hall, Toronto  :
http://www.atforumz.com/showthread.php?t=310557

T+ in that case. I'm thrilled seeing her too later this tour.

Re. your bbox. Sure, it's possible to rely on plug-in-power, go mic-in and skip the bbox. It has been done before. But your main concern with the R-09 will be higher level of self-noise, due to the lower quality built-in preamp!
If you've read previous threads by guysonic and others, you'd seen the frequency plots of the R-09 compared to R-09HR and other recorders. The mic-in doesn't look fantastic.

In the long run, you should definitely jump the gun and get a CA-9100, topped up with some fine Church mics...
For the gig tomorrow, just bring the bbox and run the setup you're used to. No point experimenting with new gear and risk your Tori tape! ;-)

[adrianf74]

Thanks to both posters here.


Looks like I'll be using the old CMC-8/SP-SB-3 setup for tonight's show.  Despite liking the notion of less gear, I'm not gonna chance going without the battery box based on the noise floor of the R09.

PaulBaptiste:  I've used GSAL mics before and they were quick and dirty and did the job, however, the price of the CA's vs. the GSAL's isn't that much of a difference at the end of the day and because Chris is a fellow Canuck, I'm leaning towards just getting them.

Both PaulBaptiste and Sunjan:
The 9100/cards/omnis package looks nice at $300, however, I'm also torn on "size" and the CA-UGLY preamp looks, well, ugly but very usable and the CAFS-OMNI with CA-14 would work out to about $370.  So for the "difference" I'm getting what I want - that is unless somebody wants to tell me that the CA-14 OMNI is a better mic than the CAFS-OMNI but then it's preference; I'm also appreciate having "smaller sized" mics so they're not so obtrusive.

Appreciate the help so far.  Now it's a matter of finding a fair price for my CMC-8/SP-SB-3 combo and putting them up in the Yard.

[darktrain]

Thanks to both posters here.


Looks like I'll be using the old CMC-8/SP-SB-3 setup for tonight's show.  Despite liking the notion of less gear, I'm not gonna chance going without the battery box based on the noise floor of the R09.

PaulBaptiste:  I've used GSAL mics before and they were quick and dirty and did the job, however, the price of the CA's vs. the GSAL's isn't that much of a difference at the end of the day and because Chris is a fellow Canuck, I'm leaning towards just getting them.

Both PaulBaptiste and Sunjan:
The 9100/cards/omnis package looks nice at $300, however, I'm also torn on "size" and the CA-UGLY preamp looks, well, ugly but very usable and the CAFS-OMNI with CA-14 would work out to about $370.  So for the "difference" I'm getting what I want - that is unless somebody wants to tell me that the CA-14 OMNI is a better mic than the CAFS-OMNI but then it's preference; I'm also appreciate having "smaller sized" mics so they're not so obtrusive.

Appreciate the help so far.  Now it's a matter of finding a fair price for my CMC-8/SP-SB-3 combo and putting them up in the Yard.

The giant squid stuff is junk, spend the few extra and get anything else

[rastasean]

The giant squid stuff is junk, spend the few extra and get anything else

I agree. No reason to be a taper with giant squid mics. I'm not picky about my gear, hell almost everything I own is used but spring for the better stuff and you will spend less in the long run.

[fmaderjr]

I agree also-No giant Squid!

If you really don't want to use a battery box, Chris Church can make you a version of one of his mics that will run perfectly on the R-09's plug in power. He uses a different resistor to accomplish this. Shoot him a PM if interested.

If you go the UGLY route be aware you must use a mini screwdriver to change levels and you must change each channel separately. I much prefer the ST-9100 for its ease of use, even though it is quite a bit larger. I have no trouble stealthing with one.

[SmokinJoe]

I was recently told, by a mic manufacturer, that the R-09 will have no issues providing power to my CMC-8's and his mics as well providing plug-in power is turned on.   

I just did some recording tests at home and the recordings seemed fine without the box.  However, this won't replicate being in a louder environment. 

If you have the typical "2 wire configuration", it will work fine with R09 plug in power, but when it gets loud at all, it will distort easily.  Using the battery box allows it to record louder sounds without brickwalling.  I've got AT853's and an R09, and I run the plug in power method exactly twice.  The first time was really quiet and it worked good (think solo with no PA), the second time was loud and distorted all to hell.  The rest of the time I use the battery box.

[adrianf74]

I was recently told, by a mic manufacturer, that the R-09 will have no issues providing power to my CMC-8's and his mics as well providing plug-in power is turned on.   

I just did some recording tests at home and the recordings seemed fine without the box.  However, this won't replicate being in a louder environment. 

If you have the typical "2 wire configuration", it will work fine with R09 plug in power, but when it gets loud at all, it will distort easily.  Using the battery box allows it to record louder sounds without brickwalling.  I've got AT853's and an R09, and I run the plug in power method exactly twice.  The first time was really quiet and it worked good (think solo with no PA), the second time was loud and distorted all to hell.  The rest of the time I use the battery box.

Thanks SmokinJoe.

This is a 2-wire configuration and used my battery box for the gig in particular but had to crank my input level on my recorder regardless.  At the end of the day, I knew I was in for trouble as my CMC-8 cards weren't gonna cut it based on being a) second row center and b) too far away from the speaker stacks on the sides.  My recording was pretty bad.

That said, I ended up picking up a stop-gap solution which was the Church Audio CAFS-OMNI mics.  I'll still use them with the battery box for safety but I know that having the omnis when I'm gonna be either too close to the stacks or am in a less than stellar position for the cards.  The cards, based on several peoples comments, are worth holding onto unless I'm going to upgrade to something considerably more expensive.   

Cheers.

[bobcat]

 i wanted to see tori amos but i ended up seeing tool twice the week before.!

cool info on the mic in and no batt box..i heard you can run that and it should be fine..richard from here told me that. maybe u had the gain too high ? for those that did it and clipped?

i do not even have a solid state recorder...i still run MD but im curious for when i make the jump down the road....   i was also thinking of buying the tascam DR 07. the only thing that sounds bad about it is that wheel dial that cannot be on hold...  does it move easily? or is it pretty much ok if u stand still at a show?i basically never move while recording so maybe its not a big deal if it isnt easy to move...but having that on your brain can stress u out...  im happy i still like my MD....if i can find more of those ill just keep using them most likely!!!

[fmaderjr]

I ended up picking up a stop-gap solution which was the Church Audio CAFS-OMNI mics.  I'll still use them with the battery box for safety.

Chris Church says all his mics need 5 volts to power them properly and says that the R-09 provides less than 4 volts. Stick to using the box or your mics won't perform optimally.