Topic: Shoulders or hat ?

[fandelive]

Hi,

I've read alot here and on other boards about pros and/or cons when mounting your mics on shoulders/hat and also about mic configurations (that stereophonic zoom article and thread).
I'm a budget taper so I don't have access to professional mics and mounts and so on...

I already have some experience taping shows FOB, 3rd or 4th rows back using omnis (binaural mounted). Stereo image was good.

Now, I have a brand new pair of cardioid mics.
I plan to mount my mics on my shoulders (kind of ORTF : 35cm appart and 40° angle) so that I will be able to move my head from left to right without getting stereo image fluctuations on the recording.

On the other hand, I could gain a little height (I'm not fairly tall...) by putting the mics on a hat.

But let's assume I won't be standing more than 10 rows back from stage and I don't think the room will be packed. Is it still worth mounting your mics on a hat ?

[rowjimmytour]

I run open so I am not sure about shoulder or hat (common sense tells me hat is better) but 35cm apart and 40 angle is no where near ORTF

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORTF_stereo_technique
ORTF combines both the volume difference provided as sound arrives on- and off-axis at two cardioid microphones spread to a 110º angle, as well as the timing difference as sound arrives at the two microphones spaced 17 cm apart.

[fandelive]

35cm apart and 40 angle is no where near ORTF

Yes, that's why I was saying "kind of" ORTF

A guy over at the stereophonic zoom thread says this :

I used to think that ORTF or DINa was the way to go w/ my mics in general, but after reading (and re-reading!) this document, and trying things like 40deg angle+35cm distance, and 60deg/30cm, my recordings are less boomy, so far.

I run open

I'll be running open too : but I live in a country where there's no dedicated spot for tapers and using professionnal stuff is just out of my budget...

Thank you for your reply

[doodee]

Based on past experience I live by the rule of getting your mics as high as possible in stealth situations. Have seen a pretty significant difference in sound quality just by getting them at head height (or better if possible) as opposed to shoulder height.

[rowjimmytour]

35cm apart and 40 angle is no where near ORTF

Yes, that's why I was saying "kind of" ORTF

A guy over at the stereophonic zoom thread says this :

I used to think that ORTF or DINa was the way to go w/ my mics in general, but after reading (and re-reading!) this document, and trying things like 40deg angle+35cm distance, and 60deg/30cm, my recordings are less boomy, so far.

Actually I believe that would be more like running split cards or NOS which is 30cm and 90 angle which I change the angle all the time so my mics point to outside of speakers. I think the real deciding factor to configuration and modified mic angle is where you end up taping at the show. My comment about open taping was directed at your ? about where to wear the mics and how I have no experience at stealth taping.
Peace

I run open

I'll be running open too : but I live in a country where there's no dedicated spot for tapers and using professionnal stuff is just out of my budget...

Thank you for your reply

[stevetoney]

It's a little hit and miss.  If the stack is nice and high, you can get away with having the mics on your shoulders if you're close enough.  But given a preference between have a wider spread (shoulders) and having them up higher (hat), I'd choose hat 100% of the time.  There's two reasons...first is getting direct sound from the source (the lower the mics, the more chance you'll get muffling because sound isn't direct but bouncing off of bodies and other things) and second is your mics will be at mouth level for all of the chatty folks and since the mics are less likely to be getting direct sound from the speakers, the talking will be more predominant, whereas when you have a higher SPL from direct sound, the talking can fade a little into the background.  Sometimes it only takes a foot of actual distance (shoulders to hat distance) to make a pretty large difference in the final result.

[Belexes]

I think someone would have to have golden ears to tell the difference between a hat mount and shoulder mount recording in a side by side comparison.  I'm not in the head/hat mount camp because it's not too much fun holding your head still for a 90 minute+ performance.

[stevetoney]

I think someone would have to have golden ears to tell the difference between a hat mount and shoulder mount recording in a side by side comparison.  I'm not in the head/hat mount camp because it's not too much fun holding your head still for a 90 minute+ performance.

It depends on whether the shoulder mount is down beneath the level of other bodies and if hat is up above bodies (direct sound pressure from the stacks)...all the difference in the world IMHO.  The OP says they're not too tall.  OTOH, I agree with you if there are no interferences.

[mfrench]

stealth - best kept stealth.

[Gordon]

stealth - best kept stealth.

the original poster said

I'll be running open too : but I live in a country where there's no dedicated spot for tapers and using professionnal stuff is just out of my budget...

[mfrench]

so whey discuss stealth then? So much of stealth can be derived from open taping.

[mfrench]

OK,... I cave - heres my stealth tip: A hat will get you a nice visit with security.

[Gordon]

seems to me he was asking about where to mount his mics and said it was open   not a big deal.  the s word never got dropped till you said it.

[mfrench]

nit picking.

[page]

OK,... I cave - heres my stealth tip: A hat will get you a nice visit with security.

If improperly mounted and/or a poor selection in style is exercised. 

As far as:

I run open

I'll be running open too : but I live in a country where there's no dedicated spot for tapers and using professionnal stuff is just out of my budget...

Ok, so if your going to be open taping, which (just to make sure we are all on the same page) means that your equipment can be seen without (much) penalty or flak, then I'd drop around $30 and buy a small stand, or a superclamp and pole (to clamp to your chair), then tape your mics to the pole/stand and run it directly in front of you so you don't obstruct anyone else's view.

If thats not an option, then I'd go for hat over shoulders for sonic results. Been there, done that, have the tapes.

Now, if you think your going to be penalized or kicked out by recording this event, then your not running open and you have a different environment that affects your question.