Topic: Anyone familiar with the Royer stereo mics?

[Teen Wolf Blitzer]

Are they all fixed at 90 degrees or can they be rotated?  I think the B&O stereo ribbon can rotate.  If the Royer's don't I'm leaning on getting 2 singles.  Plus what's the differences in the models?  Frankly I don't understand most of the lingo.   

http://www.royerlabs.com/products.html

What do you think would be most appropriate for acoustic stuff?  ie. bluegrass, oldtime, etc.  Up close.   Just doing my research.  Not ready to buy as of yet.  Unless you got one laying around you wanna sell.   

[bhtoque]

As far as stereo mics go, I really like the tone of the LSD2 for acoustic strings. Easy on the budget too.

I'll have last night's Stringduster's show up soon. Ran Blumlein stage lip.

JAson

[JasonSobel]

Keep in mind that all the Royer stereo mics are crossed Figure-8's.  Because of that, you're pretty much stuck either running Blumlein or M/S (with a Figure-8 for both the Mid and the Side).  Because of that, and because their site doesn't explicitly say it, my guess is that the caps don't rotate, and that they're fixed at 90 degrees.

[rokpunk]

fixed.

[Teen Wolf Blitzer]

I've had one.  Liked it a lot but the ribbon recordings I've heard on bluegrass crush it.  JMO.

As far as stereo mics go, I really like the tone of the LSD2 for acoustic strings. Easy on the budget too.

I'll have last night's Stringduster's show up soon. Ran Blumlein stage lip.

JAson

[ghellquist]

They are fixed at 90 degrees. Which is exactly what you want to have for MS or Blumlein recording.

The SF12 is the basic model with two of the SF1 mics mounted above each others.

The SF24 is the same mic but with a slightly larger transformer and a built in microphone head amp. This makes the output level roughly comparable to a condensor mic. The SF24 requres standard 48V phantom feed. (the SF12 has much lower output level is much more affected by long cable runs)

The SF24V seems to be using valves and needs a power supply box placed rather close to the mic.

I used to own a SF24. It is a fantastic mic and a few of my most impressive and best straight-to-stereo recordings are made with it. A beautiful open sound and a pin-point accurate stereo separation. Sadly, I seldom record in good enough locales for this to work. Sold it to a studio that uses it with very good effect on steel-stringed acoustic guitars -- the buyer commented that this was the first mic that made his Martin sound as expensive as it is. I have heard it used as overhead on drums and there it is fantastic.

Whether it works on bluegrass - not a clue.

// Gunnar

[OOK]

Sorry slight hichjack here..... but its relevant...

I have heard ribbons are very sensitive to wind that it can actually harm the ribbons...Also I have heard these mics have to be store standing up...because if you lay them down you run the chance of ribbon sag which also harms the ribbon. I have heard that either of these problems may require the replacement of the ribbon element. Can anyone validate these claims...

Otherwise I too like the sound of the limited recordings I have heard and may be interested in getting one too...(when my financial situation improves)

peace ook

[TNJazz]

I have heard ribbons are very sensitive to wind that it can actually harm the ribbons...Also I have heard these mics have to be store standing up...because if you lay them down you run the chance of ribbon sag which also harms the ribbon. I have heard that either of these problems may require the replacement of the ribbon element. Can anyone validate these claims...

Both are true statements, but modern ribbon designs are much more robust than they used to be.  Not that sag and wind damage can't happen of course, but it's not as prevalent as it used to be.

Ribbon mics are very delicate compared to dynamics and condensers, and aren't particularly well suited to general field recording.  Some environments they work well in, but I don't know that I would take a ribbon out to a live show all that often.  It's not worth the risk to me.

[OOK]

Thanks.....

So basically your left to indoor environments where acoustics are good... and stage lip type settings.....

OOK

[Teen Wolf Blitzer]

^which is about the only type recording I do.  I'm really looking at the Peluso right now.  Like how you can rotate the caps and it comes with it's own stereo matrix so it can be run in three channel stereo mode or AB mode.

[DSatz]

I owned a pair of Royer SF 1 mikes for a while; they're the single-channel counterparts of the stereo models that you're talking about. They were very good microphones, and I found Royer's customer service and support to be first-rate in all respects.

The fragility factor is something that I personally could never quite get comfortable with. I record professionally; my microphones must be reliable and consistent for hundreds and hundreds of recordings over years of use--including some where recording conditions aren't entirely predictable. In 2,000+ live recordings I've had only two microphone failures that I can recall (both in equipment that I'd bought second-hand), and I want it to remain that rare an event.

The other problem I see is that a figure-8 pattern is really not a good choice for one's main or only microphones. I like using crossed figure-8s ("Blumlein" stereo) where I can, but there aren't many situations where all your sound sources fit well into the relatively narrow < 90° angular range that is the absolute maximum for Blumlein. Since figure-8 microphones are fully as sensitive in back as in front, you can't move farther away to encompass wide sound sources, or your recording will be swamped in room reverberation.

In the end while I liked the microphones, I never found them to have any special sonic magic. Despite all the claims people make about ribbons, their frequency response was no smoother than that of my best figure-8 condensers either on- or off-axis, nor were their polar patterns better controlled (e.g. their famous supposed lack of off-axis peaks). Their low-frequency response was better (which would be very nice for M/S), but their high-frequency response rolled off at 11 kHz. I've been amazed to see inexpensive Chinese-made ribbons being taken seriously when their response extends to only about 6 or 7 kHz before rolling off (and that's in the published specs; who knows what they really achieve).

--best regards

[Teen Wolf Blitzer]

So are you saying the Peluso ribbon is chinese made?  And as for taking them seriously...the proof is in the pudding.  I think this Busman sounds damn good.

http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=75667

^I might add this was recorded at 9 in the morning on a farm in a field.

[jaycdunn]

I have an SF-12. I think any of the S series Royers would be excellent for acoustic strings. Also check out the AEA R92. A pair of those or the 84's would be another good option.

I've used the SF-12 to record a small jazz band. The way it's set up, with two figure-of-8 mics at 90 degrees, it picks up a lot of sound from the rear. The phase is reversed on the rear pattern of course, so it's great for room ambiance. If people are jabbering away behind the mic, sometimes not so great.

[rokpunk]

So are you saying the Peluso ribbon is chinese made?  And as for taking them seriously...the proof is in the pudding.  I think this Busman sounds damn good.

http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=75667

^I might add this was recorded at 9 in the morning on a farm in a field.

I am 99.8% sure the Peluso ribbon mics are Chinese made....as are the Busman's, ADK, Groove Tubes, SE, Cascade, Rode, etc. If you like the sound, then fantastic. You have found a relatively cheap ribbon mic that you like. There is a reason Royers and AEA's are thousands of dollars and ADK's/Peluso's/Rode are a few hundred dollars. I got rid of my FatHead ribbon from Cascade because it just didn't have that ribbon sound that I was looking for. It sounded thin and tinny (for a lack of a better term). I've never heard a Peluso that I like the sound of. YMMV. And will.