Topic: Need help deciding between 2 (or more) recorders

[tbger]

Hello,

I tape metal concerts and I'm looking for a quality recorder to upgrade my great Sony D7.

After a wide research I concentrated on 2 units: Marantz PMD620 and Sony PCM-M10.

What I need is a quality recorder as I said, not something that is likely to come with bugs (hence I won't choose the R09HR, after reading several faults users have had, both here and in other places), but a well built machine. I need something I can easily stealth, and have a pretty simple look (i.e. unlike the D-50), for a case it's got revealed (some MP3 player or iPod look). I've read nearly (imo) everything I could find on the Marantz and it certainly looks like it'd fit my needs very well. Though, given the good reputation and popularity of Sony recorders among (concert) tapers, I still consider this one (the PCM-M10) as a potentially good (maybe better) choice as well. After all, I've hardly seen any Marantz in lineage and source info's on tapers' and traders' pages, could be because it's a bit pricey (?), but it is weird to me anyway. But on the other side, the M10 has nearly no experienced tapers that could give opinions on it.

 

Thoughts, recommendations, everything's welcome. Thanks in advance !

[su6oxone]

What I need is a quality recorder as I said, not something that is likely to come with bugs (hence I won't choose the R09HR, after reading several faults users have had, both here and in other places), but a well built machine.

Not sure what these 'bugs' with the R-09HR you are referring to are, because the R-09HR is one of the most popular small 24-bit digital recorders among tapers on this board.  If price isn't an issue for you, I would go for the Sony M10 then, as it's gotten great reviews in terms of build quality, recording/sound quality, and battery life, and is small and cell phone-ish in appearance.  But the R-09HR is also a great stealth recorder that I have used countless times without any problems ever. 

[tbger]

Not sure what these 'bugs' with the R-09HR you are referring to are [...]

Here's some I've found here:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=125621.0

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=104834.0

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=107511.0

Some refer to the R09 and not R09HR but I think this might be a general phenomenon in their production lines and I just won't take the risk choosing this manufacturer. 

Talking about the M10 reviews - are there any reviews by tapers ?  I mean, not first impression stuff, but something related to how it was functioning during actual taping. What faults it may have had, other special tiny features you won't find in general reviews, tiny but sometimes deal breakers for me.

Thanks again.

[jlykos]

Some refer to the R09 and not R09HR but I think this might be a general phenomenon in their production lines and I just won't take the risk choosing this manufacturer. 

I don't own an R-09HR but it is my understanding that the new model is very solid and that Edirol ironed everything out with this one.  I would include it in your list of possibilities.

Talking about the M10 reviews - are there any reviews by tapers ?  I mean, not first impression stuff, but something related to how it was functioning during actual taping. What faults it may have had, other special tiny features you won't find in general reviews, tiny but sometimes deal breakers for me.

The M10 is a very new item with limited field use by a large number of people thus far.  I use the D50, which is what the M10 is based on, and it is the finest small recorder that I have ever used.

[dogmusic]

Talking about the M10 reviews - are there any reviews by tapers ?  I mean, not first impression stuff, but something related to how it was functioning during actual taping. What faults it may have had, other special tiny features you won't find in general reviews, tiny but sometimes deal breakers for me.

Thanks again.

Why not check out this thread?

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=124639.0

[Falconidave]

Not sure what these 'bugs' with the R-09HR you are referring to are [...]

Talking about the M10 reviews - are there any reviews by tapers ?  I mean, not first impression stuff, but something related to how it was functioning during actual taping. What faults it may have had, other special tiny features you won't find in general reviews, tiny but sometimes deal breakers for me.

Thanks again.

Here is an excellent show I taped Friday night using the M10 and AT943 cards into a CA ST-9100 going "line-in".  The deck performed admirably, easy to read screen for checking levels, and it really does look like a cell phone in the dark.

http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=276355

David

[tbger]

Hey all,

Why not check out this thread?

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=124639.0

"Dogmusic", thanks, of course I read this thread entirely (and the PMD620 one as well), And indeed, I found a few things tapers had noted, not enough though, but as jlykos mentioned, this recorder has just entered the market.

Here is an excellent show I taped Friday night using the M10 and AT943 cards into a CA ST-9100 going "line-in".  The deck performed admirably, easy to read screen for checking levels, and it really does look like a cell phone in the dark.

http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=276355

David

Thanks David, I'm so glad to read your reply. Care you answer me a few questions on taping with this unit ?

I'd like to know if the headphones' volume is (1) high enough to monitor your recording (while taping) ?  (2) adjustable during monitoring the recording ? 
Also, is there an option of leaving a dim light just for monitoring the levels on the recorder and avoid from anyone around from seeing it ?  Or does the unit have any "light" button as on the D7 ?
How's the battery door - Is it loose or solid ?  And how does the plasic panel around the unit feel ?  How good is it connected to the front & back metal boards ?  Is it any loose either ?
Finally, I wanted to verify this point - I realized that some buttons are adjustable while in hold-mode, the rec. level scroller at the side, the volume level (both are very useful), anything else - that might be critical ?

By the way, where is it made ?

Thanks a lot.   

Roy

[Falconidave]

Hey all,

Why not check out this thread?

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=124639.0

"Dogmusic", thanks, of course I read this thread entirely (and the PMD620 one as well), And indeed, I found a few things tapers had noted, not enough though, but as jlykos mentioned, this recorder has just entered the market.

Here is an excellent show I taped Friday night using the M10 and AT943 cards into a CA ST-9100 going "line-in".  The deck performed admirably, easy to read screen for checking levels, and it really does look like a cell phone in the dark.

http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=276355

David

Thanks David, I'm so glad to read your reply. Care you answer me a few questions on taping with this unit ?

I'd like to know if the headphones' volume is (1) high enough to monitor your recording (while taping) ?  (2) adjustable during monitoring the recording ? 
Also, is there an option of leaving a dim light just for monitoring the levels on the recorder and avoid from anyone around from seeing it ?  Or does the unit have any "light" button as on the D7 ?
How's the battery door - Is it loose or solid ?  And how does the plasic panel around the unit feel ?  How good is it connected to the front & back metal boards ?  Is it any loose either ?
Finally, I wanted to verify this point - I realized that some buttons are adjustable while in hold-mode, the rec. level scroller at the side, the volume level (both are very useful), anything else - that might be critical ?

By the way, where is it made ?

Thanks a lot.   

Roy

I'd like to know if the headphones' volume is (1) high enough to monitor your recording (while taping) ?  (2) adjustable during monitoring the recording ?

Yes and Yes

 
Also, is there an option of leaving a dim light just for monitoring the levels on the recorder and avoid from anyone around from seeing it ?  Or does the unit have any "light" button as on the D7?

Backlight settings are as follows:
10 sec
60 sec
Always On
Off
I don't think there is a dimmer setting at all.

How's the battery door - Is it loose or solid ?  And how does the plasic panel around the unit feel ?  How good is it connected to the front & back metal boards ?  Is it any loose either ?

Battery door is a bit flimsy when open, but clicks closed rock solid and feels well made.  It feels like a tank overall, very high quality feel and look.


Finally, I wanted to verify this point - I realized that some buttons are adjustable while in hold-mode, the rec. level scroller at the side, the volume level (both are very useful), anything else - that might be critical ?

It seems like only the "record level" wheel is adjustable when in "hold" mode.

By the way, where is it made ?

CHINA

Thanks a lot.   

Roy

[acidjack]

I would second the others noting that the R-09HR is a pretty darn solid unit.  Apparently the original R-09 had some problems, but those are fixed with the -HR.

Also, I'd suggest a few other considerations with it, since you say you are recording metal shows where I am guessing (i) things can get hairy on the floor and (ii) there may be wands, etc. at the door.

The R-09HR is an almost all-plastic body.  It doesn't have much metal in it.  Take that for what you will.

UNLIKE the M10 (I'm not sure about the Marantz), the "HOLD" on the R-09HR is a true "HOLD" and prevents the volume from being adjusted while recording when on.  I damaged by R-09HR and may have to get a new unit, and the major consideration moving me away from the M10 is that the REC knob can easily be hit and moved while recording, esp if you're reaching into a pocket or something to check it.  That's a not-small consideration, even if you are not stealthing, IMO.

Hello,

I tape metal concerts and I'm looking for a quality recorder to upgrade my great Sony D7.

After a wide research I concentrated on 2 units: Marantz PMD620 and Sony PCM-M10.

What I need is a quality recorder as I said, not something that is likely to come with bugs (hence I won't choose the R09HR, after reading several faults users have had, both here and in other places), but a well built machine. I need something I can easily stealth, and have a pretty simple look (i.e. unlike the D-50), for a case it's got revealed (some MP3 player or iPod look). I've read nearly (imo) everything I could find on the Marantz and it certainly looks like it'd fit my needs very well. Though, given the good reputation and popularity of Sony recorders among (concert) tapers, I still consider this one (the PCM-M10) as a potentially good (maybe better) choice as well. After all, I've hardly seen any Marantz in lineage and source info's on tapers' and traders' pages, could be because it's a bit pricey (?), but it is weird to me anyway. But on the other side, the M10 has nearly no experienced tapers that could give opinions on it.

 

Thoughts, recommendations, everything's welcome. Thanks in advance !

[stevetoney]

I've had both the R-09 and R-09HR.  They're worlds apart and there's hundreds of happy R-09HR users here.

I've also had the 620.  The reason it's not as popular as the R-09HR is the Edirol has better internal noise.

I can't comment on the Sony unit, except to say that I disagree so strongly with the general statement about Sony and high quality. 

With every product they release, Sony does their best to attempt to corner the consumer into buying additional Sony products.  Their power connectors are often unique to the product...their memory sticks are often non-standard Sony-specific designs...they usually only package the bare minimum in accessories and then charge you maximum dollar for required add-on devices, and so on.

Further, I've owned a number of Sony products where the software support was absolutely HIDEOUS...

In the process of being frustrated and repeatedly screwed-over by Sony over the course of many years, I've decided that when options exist, I'll do my best to avoid the Sony product at all costs.

Feel free to consider Sony high quality...just felt the need to respond.

[tekdroid]

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/515789-REG/Marantz_PMD620_PMD620_Professional_Handheld_Digital.html#reviews
Maybe worth a look at what other people think of the Marantz here.

Also worth a shot to download the manual:
http://www.d-mpro.com/users/folder.asp?FolderID=4313&Tab=Images


Battery life seems to be really poor next to the Sony. SD card speeds seem to be ultra slow (get a card reader). Just quickly glancing at some of the reviews.

[darktrain]

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/515789-REG/Marantz_PMD620_PMD620_Professional_Handheld_Digital.html#reviews
Maybe worth a look at what other people think of the Marantz here.

Also worth a shot to download the manual:
http://www.d-mpro.com/users/folder.asp?FolderID=4313&Tab=Images


Battery life seems to be really poor next to the Sony. SD card speeds seem to be ultra slow (get a card reader). Just quickly glancing at some of the reviews.

Yes, i always used a card reader wioth the 620 but i preferred it to the edirol and had both the R-09's

[aaronji]

The PMD620 has a dedicated hold switch that disables all of the buttons.  Actually, you can set it via menu to either “All” or “Partial”, which leaves the record, record pause, and stop/cancel buttons functional.  Battery life is pretty decent, about seven hours with regular alkalines and a few more with lithiums.  Handles power interruptions well; it properly closes files when the batteries run down, AC power is pulled (with no batteries), or even when a battery is pulled out while recording.  Provides sufficient plug-in power for most small mics if you want to travel as light as possible.  Can record files up to 4GB.  Noise levels are low enough for most applications, except maybe quiet ambient or soft acoustic, and definitely won’t be a problem for metal shows.  Pretty nice design and layout too, in my opinion.  USB transfer is pretty slow, though…

The Oade mod’ed version is quieter than the stock (I have both) and sounds really great.  He disables the internal mics, however, which could be an issue for some.

All of that being said, though, I have to admit I am seriously considering a PCM-M10.  Unbelievable battery life, nice build quality, and easier service than the Oade PMD620 (I live overseas).  The one thing I want to know (and have not seen addressed here) is how hot of a signal the line-in can take.  If it can take a hot board feed, for example, I am in…

[soundpro]

Hello:

Thought I would add my 2 cents about the R-09 vs.  the R-09HR - they are completely different products.

While there were known issues with the old version (some design choices and some actual manufacturing process flaws), the new unit has had none of these. We had have the least number of calls or returns on the R-09HR compared to all of the other recorders on the market.

As for the Sony and Marantz, I haven't played with the Sony yet, and I think there are better choices than the Marantz in the same price range.

At the moment, my recorder of choice for stealth is the R-09HR and for non-stealth, it's the Tascam DR-100, for what it's worth.

Hope this helps!

Best Regards,
 
Chris Carfagno
sales@soundprofessionals.com
www.soundprofessionals.com
The Sound Professionals, Inc.
3444 Sylon Blvd
Hainesport NJ, 08036
800-213-3021
609-267-4400
609-267-0054 fax

[fmaderjr]

the major consideration moving me away from the M10 is that the REC knob can easily be hit and moved while recording, esp if you're reaching into a pocket or something to check it. 

This couldn't be more untrue. The knob is recessed and very stiff. Shouldn't move when put in pocket. I think you feel this way from looking at pictures-if you had a chance to hold one in your hand, I think you'd feel differently.