Topic: General consenses of best sounding analog inputs ??

[Nick's Picks]

suppose you were running an outboard phantom supply, and some nice mics.
of the decks out there now, which one would *you* want...utilising its gain ?
Lets say you were running Neumann km184s. so you've got a meaty sounding flavour to start
or
lets say you were running C4's, or an LSD2...., or anything else that might be considered more "bright" than heavily coloured.
would you change your opinion of which deck to use based on its relationship w/the mics flavour to start with?..or is there one in particular that stands out as an all around winner due to transparency no matter how much gain you use (via mic or line in).
I have not played w/any of the Tascam, Marantz or Sony hand held jobbies.  Most everything else, I've heard or used.
I sometimes think of really stripping down to mics > ps2 or other > hand sized deck.   the Korg MR1 always comes to mind in this regard....., but I wanted to check and see if the general opinion (esp. on the newer Sony decks) is favourable.  For reference, I think the preamps on the current sony (and older Sharps, Aiwa's) MD decks sound quite good, and was disappointed when the MT2 and then the R9 after it..when in my possession..., failed to impress me when fed a straight mic signal from externally powered condensers.

[ghellquist]

Sorry to say but I think you need to restrict your question as far as price level goes. Personally I am quite fond of the Sound Devices boxes (use a 722 with Schoeps mics), can guess that the Nagra VI or LB sounds even better. Would not mind an Aathon Cantar either.
Gunnar

[Nick's Picks]

"hand held decks"... I guess i didn't make that clear.  I know the $2k recorders from SD are going to have fantastic line in sound and great preamps and all that.  I"m more interested in the best sounding gain on these little "junk decks"....


SD seven series..though small, dont quite qualify.

[Todd R]

Sorry, pretty much repeating my fluffing from your other thread, but to reiterate the point and for the readers of this thread....

Not really getting at your actual question, but if the point is to put together a good sounding, small, and cheap rig, I'd really recommend mics> Naiant littlebox > nice handheld recorder (Sony D50, Sony M10, Edirol R09HR).

I really like the line input of the D50, and I think from the feedback I've heard on the R09hr and Sony M10, those look to be good choices too.  Go a route like this and you can get the preamp + recorder for $500.  IME, this is the bang for your buck solution these days, much like modded UA5 > iriver or JB3 used to be. 

The next up in system price would get you towards the FR2LE or PMD661, probably with busman or oade upgrades for the best performance from what I understand.

[Nick's Picks]

yea, been there...done that w/the decks that are more "bag mounted". like the 66x series of Marantz, or the Tascam...korgmr1000. etc.

I guess I"m really down to the M10 vs. the R9HR.   the inability to secure the gain while in hold feature on the Sony doesn't' thrill me, but a piece of gaffers tape solves that.  Never used the 9HR, but had several r9s, and loved them..so I know what I'd be getting into.

Sony has better battery life I gather?  not that the r9 sucks.
how are the meters, is there a peak feature (numeric) as well as the continuous bounce ?
r9 meters......, edirol junk, IMO.  hate them.  useful, but hate them.
Sony has 4gb (4hr of 24/44.1) built in and takes micro SD, which I have a few 2 and 4gb chips around.  will that just write over to the extra media once the internal has filled ?
the SD card of the R9 is handy.  I have lots of those already that are proven reliable in the Edirol.

are their "sounds" pretty much hard to differentiate?  that will make my choice easy, based on feature sets if the sound of the decks is very much on par.  If one in stand out in all regards, mic and line in..., that's another story.

WTF am I doing up talkin' trash about gear I dont have at 4am ?
I could almost start smokin' the turkey.  guess I'll have to settle for smokin' something easier to deal with at this wee hour.

[flipp]

WTF am I doing up talkin' trash about gear I dont have at 4am ?
I could almost start smokin' the turkey.  guess I'll have to settle for smokin' something easier to deal with at this wee hour.

Same thing the rest of us insomniacs are doing up - anything we can since we can't sleep.
Smoked the turkey last Sunday - it's been in the fridge since, letting the smoke permeate all the way through. That's one thing I learned from my father, smoke early and let sit for four or five days.  Pretty much everything else can wait until after the first nap of the day. Potatoes and pies can bake at the same time, then the rolls can go in the oven while the veggies are steaming on the stove. Should all be done just about kickoff of the first game. Looking forward to a lazy afternoon.

[Nick's Picks]

nice!
I'm deep frying w/a marrinade I came up with.  beer, honey, garlic, lots of peppers and cajun type spices.  dry rub outside...injected nearly 2 pints of the "sam adams winter ale " based juice I made for it.  Its gong to be succulent...as always.

[jlykos]

These are all regarding the D50; I can't imagine that the M10 is any different (except for a longer battery life).

Sony has better battery life I gather?  not that the r9 sucks.

Battery life on the D50 is around 20 hours with four alkaline AA batteries, screen turned off, and mic-in power off.  I have heard that the M10 pushes this up to something ridiculous like 42 hours or something on two AA batteries.  Battery life for any of the Sony units is not a problem.

how are the meters, is there a peak feature (numeric) as well as the continuous bounce ?
r9 meters......, edirol junk, IMO.  hate them.  useful, but hate them.

I really, really like the Sony meters.  It is a continuous bounce for the bar metering with a peak numerical value.  The amber light also makes them really easy to see.  As an added bonus, if you feel like turning off the backlight to save battery life, the Sony also has LED meters at -12 and 0 so you can see if you are going over.  You can also turn off the LED meters if you are in super-stealth situations or the like.

Sony has 4gb (4hr of 24/44.1) built in and takes micro SD, which I have a few 2 and 4gb chips around.  will that just write over to the extra media once the internal has filled ?
the SD card of the R9 is handy.  I have lots of those already that are proven reliable in the Edirol.

The internal 4GB of Sony memory will NOT write over to the external memory chip, nor vice-versa.  This is an inconvenience.  I bought a 16GB Sony memory stick that gives me 8 hours of 24/96 recording.  That was enough for me to capture the entire Scion rock fest in Atlanta this year, which is the gold standard of field recording for me.  If you get a large memory stick / card, you will probably be set for your normal taping needs; if I attended Bonnaroo or a multi-day festival, I would probably buy an extra memory chip or something.

are their "sounds" pretty much hard to differentiate?  that will make my choice easy, based on feature sets if the sound of the decks is very much on par.  If one in stand out in all regards, mic and line in..., that's another story.

I don't know anybody who has A/B'ed the Edirol and Sony units so I can't answer that one.  As Leonard (guysonic) measured and from some other online sites, the Sony D50 has better specs than the Edirol, but that doesn't mean a lot.  My guess is that they are fairly close.  I have no idea about the M10 vs. the R-09HR.

What ultimately made me chose the D50 over the R-09HR was the fact that all of the external controls are on the outside of the unit so I am not wading through an endless variety of menus.  The M10 has a similar layout in this regard.  The D50 also has four separate circuit boards to handle audio duties.  I am not sure if the M10 has this level of over-engineering but I know that the Edirol does not.  Finally, the D50 (and the M10) has a very useful limiter function where the unit runs two separate A/D converters, one -12 db from the other so that if you clip, the unit immediately switches to the second one to capture the unclipped signal.  Very, very useful in stealth situations or indeed in any situation where you are away from your gear or on a bathroom break or something.

Sorry to seem like I am fluffing the Sony so much, but I really like the D50 a lot.  The amount of care and attention to detail that Sony put into the unit is evident and this deserves to be supported.  I have had mine for a year now and have not experienced any problems at all with the unit after using it in a variety of taping situations (stealth, open, festivals, etc.).  Each unit has their adherents and I am sure that you will find lots of Edirol people saying the same things about their stuff as well.

[Craig T]

The internal 4GB of Sony memory will NOT write over to the external memory chip, nor vice-versa.  This is an inconvenience.

This is not true for the M10.  The internal will write over to the memory chip either during (called "cross-memory") recording or afterwards.  I haven't tried the cross-memory mode, but have moved files over after the show - simple copy function from internal > external.

Having used the r09, r09hr, dr07 and M10, I'd go for the M10 on sound, ease of use, features, battery life.

[illconditioned]

I think the Sony wins because it has *lower noise floor*.

That means whatever mic you plug in will sound great.  Even a dynamic will work!

  Richard

[fmaderjr]

Not really getting at your actual question, but if the point is to put together a good sounding, small, and cheap rig, I'd really recommend mics> Naiant littlebox > nice handheld recorder (Sony D50, Sony M10, Edirol R09HR).

The next up in system price would get you towards the FR2LE or PMD661, probably with busman or oade upgrades for the best performance from what I understand.

I would go with the Littlebox system if you don't need a single box. It sounds fabulous. I like it much better than my Busman modded FR2-LE (had all kind of problems getting it to work right). The Sony PDM-661 does sound like a great machine, though, and reportedly sounds great without mods.

[aaronji]

Not really getting at your actual question, but if the point is to put together a good sounding, small, and cheap rig, I'd really recommend mics> Naiant littlebox > nice handheld recorder (Sony D50, Sony M10, Edirol R09HR).

The next up in system price would get you towards the FR2LE or PMD661, probably with busman or oade upgrades for the best performance from what I understand.

I would go with the Littlebox system if you don't need a single box. It sounds fabulous. I like it much better than my Busman modded FR2-LE (had all kind of problems getting it to work right). The Sony PDM- Marantz PMD661 does sound like a great machine, though, and reportedly sounds great without mods.

Fixed that for you...

The PMD661 might be worth a look.  Quite a bit smaller than the 660 (although considerably bigger than a PCM-M10 or R09HR) and you could skip the external phantom...

[Idle Wind]

Finally, the D50 (and the M10) has a very useful limiter function where the unit runs two separate A/D converters, one -12 db from the other so that if you clip, the unit immediately switches to the second one to capture the unclipped signal. 

I'm pretty sure after reading the manuals and the promotional media, that the M10 does not have the dual stream A/D limiter that the D50 does.

[fmaderjr]

I'm pretty sure after reading the manuals and the promotional media, that the M10 does not have the dual stream A/D limiter that the D50 does.

I'm almost certain that this is correct.

You really don't need a limiter if you record in 24 bit and aim for peaks no higher than -12 dB or so, however, so you're not losing much here even if the M10's limiter is noticeably inferior to the D50's.

[Xontar]

I think you want to look through http://www.wingfieldaudio.com/portable-recorder-noise.html#samples . Noise-floor samples of most (all?) of the portable recorders you'll find used around here. Going through that page set me hopelessly lusting after the PCM-D50, for what it's worth.