Topic: Binaural or cardioid for loud indoor shows?

[sethrich]

Hey everyone, looking to pick up some relatively inexpensive mics to complement the Edirol R-09HR, but really have no knowledge of what's best for loud indoor stuff. Binaural or cardioid? Any help or advice would be much appreciated. Any recommendations for other mics are appreciated as well.

I've been looking at these, but am open to just about anything...

Binaural
SP-BMC-2 $49
SOUND PROFESSIONALS - MINI BINAURAL MICROPHONES
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-BMC-2

Cardioid
SP-CMC-19 $59
SOUND PROFESSIONALS - MINI STANDARD CARDIOID STEREO MICROPHONES
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-19

SP-CMC-22 $69
SOUND PROFESSIONALS - DELUXE MINI CARDIOID STEREO MICROPHONES
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-22

[darktrain]

Hey everyone, looking to pick up some relatively inexpensive mics to complement the Edirol R-09HR, but really have no knowledge of what's best for loud indoor stuff. Binaural or cardioid? Any help or advice would be much appreciated.

I've been looking at these...

Binaural
SP-BMC-2 $49
SOUND PROFESSIONALS - MINI BINAURAL MICROPHONES
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-BMC-2

Cardioid
SP-CMC-19 $59
SOUND PROFESSIONALS - MINI STANDARD CARDIOID STEREO MICROPHONES
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-19

SP-CMC-22 $69
SOUND PROFESSIONALS - DELUXE MINI CARDIOID STEREO MICROPHONES
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-22

You can use either but depends really on how loud, location, i prefer cards for cutting out a lot of "extras" as they are focused only on whats in front of you where the omnis(binuaral) pick up a 360 degree pattern which in small place tends to mean more audience noise as well, and all those mics you are looking at are marginal, they will most likely distort in a really loud show situation, do yourself a favor and check the yard sale for a good used set, usually you can pick up a set for around a 100.00 or so.

[fmaderjr]

Hey everyone, looking to pick up some relatively inexpensive mics to complement the Edirol R-09HR, but really have no knowledge of what's best for loud indoor stuff. Binaural or cardioid? Any help or advice would be much appreciated.

I've been looking at these...

Binaural
SP-BMC-2 $49
SOUND PROFESSIONALS - MINI BINAURAL MICROPHONES
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-BMC-2

Cardioid
SP-CMC-19 $59
SOUND PROFESSIONALS - MINI STANDARD CARDIOID STEREO MICROPHONES
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-19

SP-CMC-22 $69
SOUND PROFESSIONALS - DELUXE MINI CARDIOID STEREO MICROPHONES
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-22

You invested in a great recorder-you really shouldn't try to get away with cheap mics. I recommend saving up for a Church Audio setup (you'll need a battery box to power his mics optimally too).

I prefer cards in most cases, as does darktrain. I don't know the cheap sound pro's cards you mentioned, but I do know the BMC-2 omni sounds surpisingly good (especially given it's cost). However it will distort if you record shows with a sound pressure level over around 105 dB unless you use a battery box to power it, so it won't work for loud shows without a box. I think it goes up to 120 or 125 db with a battery box. The cheap cards may well be lacking in bass, but somebody who owns them would have to chime in on that, and probably also need a battery box to avoid distorting at loud shows. Also some of your very loud shows could exceed 120 dB (especially if you stack tape), so there is a possibility you could occasionally get distortion even when using a battery box with all the SP's mics you mention.

The Church Audio mics, with a battery box, will not distort even at an ear crushingly loud show. Check out his December sale:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=129878.0

[Ziggz]

SP-CMC-19's were the first mics I bought. I would recommend saving a bit more $$ and get something else. I also owned the CMC-22's and they weren't much of an upgrade, both very thin sounding with little bottom end.
The budget SP onmis are a lot better, I pulled some pretty good recordings with these:
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?item=SP-BMC-9

[ilduclo]

Why not try working with the built in mics for now?

[rhinowing]

I run SP-BMC-2s with an SP box. pretty happy with them, but they will distort if your box is low, and loud shows absolutely kill the battery

[Belexes]

Save for CA-11's so you get both the omni and card caps.

[fmaderjr]

Good advice, but with Chris Church's December sale you can get CA-14 cards and omnis for not much more than CA-11's with both caps if you want to go that way. The CA-11's are good mics too though.

[sethrich]

I run SP-BMC-2s with an SP box. pretty happy with them, but they will distort if your box is low, and loud shows absolutely kill the battery

I plan to use a battery. Do you use bass rolloff? I'm curious if I could get away without that option because I don't think I'd feel confident playing with the rolloff settings.

[taperwheeler]

I run SP-BMC-2s with an SP box. pretty happy with them, but they will distort if your box is low, and loud shows absolutely kill the battery

I plan to use a battery. Do you use bass rolloff? I'm curious if I could get away without that option because I don't think I'd feel confident playing with the rolloff settings.

You don't hafta run roll-off.  I always ran my battery box with none.   And to Rhinowing, 9v's should last a long, long time in batt boxes.  You may have a faulty box.

[Church-Audio]

I run SP-BMC-2s with an SP box. pretty happy with them, but they will distort if your box is low, and loud shows absolutely kill the battery

I plan to use a battery. Do you use bass rolloff? I'm curious if I could get away without that option because I don't think I'd feel confident playing with the rolloff settings.

With my mics you dont need it. Roll off if needed is something that can be done in post when you dump the tracks down to your computer. All you need for now is a set of mics and a battery box with out a roll off.

[fmaderjr]

And to Rhinowing, 9v's should last a long, long time in batt boxes.  You may have a faulty box.

Unless you don't read directions and leave the mics plugged in when not in use. I know that's not the likely cause, but its always possible.

[rhinowing]

And to Rhinowing, 9v's should last a long, long time in batt boxes.  You may have a faulty box.

Unless you don't read directions and leave the mics plugged in when not in use. I know that's not the likely cause, but its always possible.

my box actually takes a 12V (energizer sells them branded as "M21/23", same kind ethat goes in a car remot). I dunno. Any way I can check out how well the box is working?

also, I very rarely use roll-off. Only if I can really see the bass peaking above everything else

[acidjack]

And to Rhinowing, 9v's should last a long, long time in batt boxes.  You may have a faulty box.

Unless you don't read directions and leave the mics plugged in when not in use. I know that's not the likely cause, but its always possible.

my box actually takes a 12V (energizer sells them branded as "M21/23", same kind ethat goes in a car remot). I dunno. Any way I can check out how well the box is working?

also, I very rarely use roll-off. Only if I can really see the bass peaking above everything else

I use the SPSB-10 box as well. I changed the battery once this year after probably doing over 100hrs of shows.  Those batteries seem to last pretty well. 

Funny that more people here don't use this box.  Although finding those mini batteries is a bit of a pain, the design is fantastic - mostly plastic, but solid (i.e., lightweight, stealthable, portable) and a bit more secure than the Church BB where the battery remains exposed.  I love this thing.  Far superior to the larger SoundPros boxes too; obviously not as secure as the locking Coresound 3-wire box or other mini-XLR boxes, but I've never had a problem.

[fmaderjr]

I use the SPSB-10 box as well. I changed the battery once this year after probably doing over 100hrs of shows.  Those batteries seem to last pretty well. 
Funny that more people here don't use this box. 

I don't think it's surprising. Sound Pro's only rates the battery to last 30-50 hours, whereas one powered by a square 9 volt battery might last 500 hours. You'd have to be constantly worried about when to change the battery. The Church box is secure even if the battery is exposed and you get lat least 10 times the battery life. I wouldn't dream of using a battery box not powered by a square 9 volt battery.