Sony PCM-M10 (Part 2)

[page]

Then again, it seems like problems can sometimes take a good while to become apparent...

Right, there are some age-related problems that we don't pick up on till later. Plus, there were some tests that we didn't think about doing till we found the problems elsewhere. So as time goes on, we start testing new gear with more tests (like the dropped samples during volume changes, who was checking that 5 years ago?). Some of the issues with the korg mr-1 (in the power area) weren't discovered until later, but we have a better idea of what "might" be wrong and can start looking at testing that earlier if we want to.

I find it quietly promising for the M10 that on TS.com (which is a big user base that primarily uses external mics) the biggest conversation debate we seem to be having is over the attached mics compared to some discussions about recorders which have power issues, or bad gain stages, or any number of other problems.

That's quietly impressive to me.

Until someone actually produces a comp on audio quality, it's all just hype to me

The rumor I've heard is that the m10 has weak bass response.  We've yet to hear how well it handles intense bass at high signal levels, among other things.

Do any m10 owners have access to a v3?  That's the ideal comp platform; comparing the m10 source to the a/d in the v3.

1) I agree, until we comp stuff in a reasonable manner, the best we get is perceptions.
2) The V3 or SD7 series are great platforms since they are readily available and fairly well known.

Its a great unit, thats all there is to say, it has everything you really need in small handheld and IMO is superior to any other handheld made to date, those that are digging to find reason not to get it are just missing the boat on this one. But i guess thats why TS is here. I got a question for all those that "need" a digi connection.......WHY is that a big deal, i have been on this board for a while now and always hear "no digi" in is a deal breaker, or they missed on that but i don't think i have ever read why anyone really needs it.

Realistically, it's not for me personally. I think we as a community have become conditioned to think cheap units are "get what you pay for" when compared to Nagras or 7xx units. I'd like a digi-in, as there are occasions when I use one (like patching or transfers), but it's not a deal breaker when you look at other things that can go wrong.

[yousef]

I agree with you completely, but I don't think the internal mics take anything away from the M10. I recorded a loud rock band with the internals just for kicks and it came out SURPRISINGLY good. I'll never use the internals for a serious taping situation, but they sound pretty darn good all on their own. Of course the image is zilch, but the box itself offers a lot of quality.

It seems that the M10's internals are impressing everyone and I suppose that has to be a good thing. Plus I must admit to have been very pleased to have internal mics on my R-09 when I've wanted to quickly record my baby daughter's various gurgles and giggles over the last few weeks.

I think what provoked my original comment was a couple of rather lacklustre recordings on Dime where I ended up thinking that if the recorder didn't have internals, the taper would probably have picked up a set of Church mics and got a pretty nice tape instead...

[ehren]

I agree with you completely, but I don't think the internal mics take anything away from the M10. I recorded a loud rock band with the internals just for kicks and it came out SURPRISINGLY good. I'll never use the internals for a serious taping situation, but they sound pretty darn good all on their own. Of course the image is zilch, but the box itself offers a lot of quality.

It seems that the M10's internals are impressing everyone and I suppose that has to be a good thing. Plus I must admit to have been very pleased to have internal mics on my R-09 when I've wanted to quickly record my baby daughter's various gurgles and giggles over the last few weeks.

I think what provoked my original comment was a couple of rather lacklustre recordings on Dime where I ended up thinking that if the recorder didn't have internals, the taper would probably have picked up a set of Church mics and got a pretty nice tape instead...

Well, yes, I think the Church mics perform as well as mics costing thousands more in some instances; they are possibly the ultimate deal in concert taping history. That said, if someone can't educate themselves on how to properly record a concert we can hardly hold Sony responsible. (I know that isn't exactly what YOU said, just trying to make a point.) The M10 is a sexy piece of gear, it feels a lot like the old M1 to me, and that's a good thing IMO.

[yousef]

possibly the ultimate deal in concert taping history.

Maybe Chris could have that embossed onto the side of all his gear...

[Todd R]

Its a great unit, thats all there is to say, it has everything you really need in small handheld and IMO is superior to any other handheld made to date, those that are digging to find reason not to get it are just missing the boat on this one. But i guess thats why TS is here. I got a question for all those that "need" a digi connection.......WHY is that a big deal, i have been on this board for a while now and always hear "no digi" in is a deal breaker, or they missed on that but i don't think i have ever read why anyone really needs it.

I still feel like I want a digi-in on a recorder, but it isn't as big a necessity as it had been for me.  In my case though, up until recently, I owned a V3 which I had for ~7 years.  The V3 is a very nice piece of gear with a A/D stage that I personally like.  If a cheap recorder that could be had that was reliable, bit perfect, and took a digital input, it wouldn't matter to me if they made it with crappy analog stages since I could avoid them and use the V3. 

Now I don't have the V3, but I still do use my Sony D50 to transfer DATs.  So I still am using the digital input of a recorder.  But since I no longer use the V3 and since I still will probably have at least one digi-in recorder (I now have the D50 and the R44), the digital input isn't as important as it once was.  That said, it gets to what Freelunch said -- we need to do some testing and comps to be sure the analog stage sounds good.  I'd be optimistic about the m10, since I like the analog stage of the D50.

So short answer -- having digi-in is good for doing DAT transfers, and also allows a taper to spend the big money on an external pre/AD and not worry about the quality of the analog stage of the recorder.

[ehren]

Its a great unit, thats all there is to say, it has everything you really need in small handheld and IMO is superior to any other handheld made to date, those that are digging to find reason not to get it are just missing the boat on this one. But i guess thats why TS is here. I got a question for all those that "need" a digi connection.......WHY is that a big deal, i have been on this board for a while now and always hear "no digi" in is a deal breaker, or they missed on that but i don't think i have ever read why anyone really needs it.

I still feel like I want a digi-in on a recorder, but it isn't as big a necessity as it had been for me.  In my case though, up until recently, I owned a V3 which I had for ~7 years.  The V3 is a very nice piece of gear with a A/D stage that I personally like.  If a cheap recorder that could be had that was reliable, bit perfect, and took a digital input, it wouldn't matter to me if they made it with crappy analog stages since I could avoid them and use the V3. 

Now I don't have the V3, but I still do use my Sony D50 to transfer DATs.  So I still am using the digital input of a recorder.  But since I no longer use the V3 and since I still will probably have at least one digi-in recorder (I now have the D50 and the R44), the digital input isn't as important as it once was.  That said, it gets to what Freelunch said -- we need to do some testing and comps to be sure the analog stage sounds good.  I'd be optimistic about the m10, since I like the analog stage of the D50.

So short answer -- having digi-in is good for doing DAT transfers, and also allows a taper to spend the big money on an external pre/AD and not worry about the quality of the analog stage of the recorder.

Well Todd, my Littlebox is on it's way, it will be interesting to hear how the Littlebox>M10 sounds. I'll be taping NMAS and Govt' Mule next month.

[page]

Its a great unit, thats all there is to say, it has everything you really need in small handheld and IMO is superior to any other handheld made to date, those that are digging to find reason not to get it are just missing the boat on this one. But i guess thats why TS is here. I got a question for all those that "need" a digi connection.......WHY is that a big deal, i have been on this board for a while now and always hear "no digi" in is a deal breaker, or they missed on that but i don't think i have ever read why anyone really needs it.

I still feel like I want a digi-in on a recorder, but it isn't as big a necessity as it had been for me.  In my case though, up until recently, I owned a V3 which I had for ~7 years.  The V3 is a very nice piece of gear with a A/D stage that I personally like.  If a cheap recorder that could be had that was reliable, bit perfect, and took a digital input, it wouldn't matter to me if they made it with crappy analog stages since I could avoid them and use the V3. 

Now I don't have the V3, but I still do use my Sony D50 to transfer DATs.  So I still am using the digital input of a recorder.  But since I no longer use the V3 and since I still will probably have at least one digi-in recorder (I now have the D50 and the R44), the digital input isn't as important as it once was.  That said, it gets to what Freelunch said -- we need to do some testing and comps to be sure the analog stage sounds good.  I'd be optimistic about the m10, since I like the analog stage of the D50.

So short answer -- having digi-in is good for doing DAT transfers, and also allows a taper to spend the big money on an external pre/AD and not worry about the quality of the analog stage of the recorder.

Well Todd, my Littlebox is on it's way, it will be interesting to hear how the Littlebox>M10 sounds. I'll be taping NMAS and Govt' Mule next month.

This is ultimately my plan. If I were going to augment my 722 (cause I'm not going to get rid of it, thats blasphemy), this is what I'd do, hence why I'm paying attention to both products...

[Todd R]

Well Todd, my Littlebox is on it's way, it will be interesting to hear how the Littlebox>M10 sounds. I'll be taping NMAS and Govt' Mule next month.

Excellent!   I'll be interested how that sounds, LB> Sony D50 is my one of my 2ch recording options I've been using a lot and I really like it.

Does your littlebox have an 1/8" out and RCA outs?  If so, we could run a comparison of the M1 and D50 line inputs by using those two outs on your LB. 

[Todd R]

This is ultimately my plan. If I were going to augment my 722 (cause I'm not going to get rid of it, thats blasphemy), this is what I'd do, hence why I'm paying attention to both products...

I understand the feeling of blasphemy.  I did it though, and also took the blasphemous step of selling my beloved V3 as well.  From the money from the sale of my SD box and my V3 (and after much gear buying and selling), I finally landed a PSP2, an Oade R44, a littlebox, and a pair of gefell m210 hypers.  Though I often miss both my SD and V3, having a 4ch recorder, 2 preamps, and one of the best pair of hypers out there was a pretty good tradeoff.

Anyway, that's the great thing about the littlebox -- at its pricepoint, you don't have to sell your favorite gear to get one.

[Jamos]

Between the D50 & the M10, it should cover everyone's needs...

If you need a digi-in (and still like to have a reliable, clean analog in), get a D50
If you don't need a digi-in, go for the M10

I wonder if they'll eventually alter the D50...?

[ehren]

Well Todd, my Littlebox is on it's way, it will be interesting to hear how the Littlebox>M10 sounds. I'll be taping NMAS and Govt' Mule next month.

Excellent!   I'll be interested how that sounds, LB> Sony D50 is my one of my 2ch recording options I've been using a lot and I really like it.

Does your littlebox have an 1/8" out and RCA outs?  If so, we could run a comparison of the M1 and D50 line inputs by using those two outs on your LB.

Yes, my Littlebox does have 1/8" our and RCA outs. Lets do that comp!!

[CatScan]

Trying to decide between Micro-SD or M2 Memory Stick...
Micro-SD cards are cheaper as someone has pointed out earlier here, but do they work in the same way as Mini-SD cards, meaning there are adapters available, so they'll physically fit as standard SD cards in a card reader?

[flintstone]

Most MicroSD cards are packaged with an SD card adapter.  It's easy to insert the MicroSD card into the adapter, and then plug the combination into a standard USB card reader or an SD slot in your computer. 

Alternatively, leave the MicroSD card installed in the M10, and use the USB cable included with the recorder to link the M10 to computer.

The MicroSD slot in the M10 is different than the MicroSD slot in a cell phone.  Push the MicroSD card into the spring-loaded slot in the M10 to insert it.  Push again to unlock the card.  The spring in the slot will push the card out to the point where you can grab it. 

MicroSD cards cost about $10 for 4GB, $20 for 8GB, and $50 for 16GB.  I'd look for a card that has class 6 speed and a lifetime warranty.  You don't need class 6 speed for audio recording, but it does transfer files faster, and you may wish to use the card in a video recorder sometime.

Flintstone

[mloewen]

Yes there are many different adapters for the micro sd cards do a search on ebay for them.

[su6oxone]

Trying to decide between Micro-SD or M2 Memory Stick...

If you can use either, I can't think of any reason to get the M2 over a micro-SD.  I have an M2 for my PSP and it costs significantly more than a comparable micro-SD.