Topic: Wall of Noise

[maidentallica]

Hi there, I've just recently started taping and I encountered an annoying problem.

It's been only metal shows so far I've taped, and the first show came out excellent. Saturday's show also came out well. It was last night, the first of the 2 support bands came out great as well, but the second support band and the headline act just sound like a complete wall of noise.

Now, the volume was at set at 50% for the first band, then the same for the first support, however the volume was much louder for them so I assumed that was the problem. For the headline act I turned the volume to 25% for the first song then all the way down to 12% and I still have a complete wall of noise and a gig which is useless.

I am taping using the internal microphone (for now) of a Zoom H2. I was fine at Napalm Death recording at 30% so I am wondering what the hell happened to stop last night's recording being fine at a similar distance away (in front of the soundboard each time) at 12%.

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance.

[darktrain]

A- those are shitty internal mics
B- you will never and i mean never get a good recording of a metal show using those internals, you will have to get external mics  that can handle high spl
C- read through the forum, there are lots of post just like yours

[maidentallica]

Sorry man, been having a bad day slipped my mind to search.

I managed no bother to get good recordings at the other gigs with the internal mic, and even the first support band at that gig. It just seemed to all turn to shit after that.

[travelinbeat]

Not sure if internal mics diminish with dwindling battery life, but it also sounds like it might have been failing batteries.  My experiences are all with external mics, and if you had been using externals, batteries probably would have been the been the first thing I checked (it would also help to explain why earlier recordings were good, and most recent recordings are bad).  Again though, I don't know how devices manage power to their internal mics, so I'm not sure if that'd explain it.  That all having been said, Darktrain is absolutely correct in driving the urgency of purchasing some external mics.  I've recorded plenty of painfully loud shows with Church's mics, and I doubt if anyone on these forums would argue against Chris Church's mics being the best bang for the buck.  $250 can set you up with some great, easily stealthable mics and a preamp or battery box, you could probably look through some of his sales in the retail section and peice something together a little cheaper.  Check him out and send him a PM with your goals and I'm sure he'll work with you in finding the best set up for your needs.  Church-Audio

[Jhurlbs81]

you had to turn down your recording level for the main act though..that means they were louder.  Those internals can only handle so much Napalm Death before they'll start to overload.   Sounds like that's what happened.  Is there a "Low" setting for the mics?  Did you have that going for you?

Good luck.  This hobby is a journey, and while I'm sure you might be a bit annoyed or frustrated your tape didn't come out the way you wanted- use each experience as a lesson.  You may not have done anything wrong; your recorders capabilities might be limiting you here.

Best of luck!
Jesse

[maidentallica]

Oh god I'm a stupid bastard. I've just discovered what's happened. I was turning it on in a hurry the second time last night and I turned up the mic gain to high instead of turning the unit on 

Feel like such fool losing 2 recordings because of me rushing around like a headless chicken to turn the damn thing on.

External mics is the next stage though.

[darktrain]

trust me from experience, those shows are to loud to get "good" recordings with the internals, you need some crdioid mics for metal, i have recorded lots of metal and only got consistant when i got the cards, testament, slayer, metallica, etc... some very nice recordings using externals

[SmokinJoe]

1) We have all made mistakes like hitting the wrong button and lost recordings.  It's a right of passage.

2) The thing that we all know, but no one has come right out and said yet is: there is some sound pressure level at which a given mic will no longer work right because they overload.  Depending on the mic it might be 100db, or it might be 150db.  My 2 wire AT853's are on the low end of that scale.  I'm not sure how much your internal mics can take, but I'll assume your death metal is "wicked loud" so it's probably approaching that limit.

[maidentallica]

I am going to get there eventually. I will once I see how much money I have left after booking travel to festival/gigs overseas etc.

Here's a sample of The Fading from last night.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=2F10RPYZ

[jamroom]

Good to see you worked out the problem quickly and that it was operator error, rather than gear problems. Your first recording turned out well enough (accepting the limitations of the H2), so you should be fine with the rest. Separate cards and battery box or pre-amp will net you better recordings, but mean more gear to carry. You need to decide whether you are happy with the sound you have, or want to step up a bit.

I don't know the switching on the H2, but might be worth taping over some switches if they are selected too easily.

[jamroom]

...after booking travel to festival/gigs overseas etc.

You're not going to Roadburn, are you?

[stevetoney]

2) The thing that we all know, but no one has come right out and said yet is: there is some sound pressure level at which a given mic will no longer work right because they overload.  Depending on the mic it might be 100db, or it might be 150db.  My 2 wire AT853's are on the low end of that scale.  I'm not sure how much your internal mics can take, but I'll assume your death metal is "wicked loud" so it's probably approaching that limit.

It sounds like you found the problem with the lo/hi switch, but as Smokinjoe suggested, mic overloading was the first thing I thought of too.  If the sound pressure level is too high, the mics will overload regardless of what you set your recorder at.  In that case, the only solution is to back away from the sound source in the venue to get lower SPL, but you won't know until you get home because your levels will be peaking at the right levels. 

I'd add that it takes wicked loud SPLs to overload the mics themselves (as opposed to the preamp circuit)...but since we're talking about internal mics on a zoom H2, I'm thinking that the specs on those mics are probably not very good, so perhaps it's possible that they could overdose.

[maidentallica]

I don't know the switching on the H2, but might be worth taping over some switches if they are selected too easily.

I think I should too. Need to tape over the recording lights too!

...after booking travel to festival/gigs overseas etc.

You're not going to Roadburn, are you?

Nah, Hellfest for the second year running. Hoping to hit up Bolt Thrower in Belfast too!

[maidentallica]

2) The thing that we all know, but no one has come right out and said yet is: there is some sound pressure level at which a given mic will no longer work right because they overload.  Depending on the mic it might be 100db, or it might be 150db.  My 2 wire AT853's are on the low end of that scale.  I'm not sure how much your internal mics can take, but I'll assume your death metal is "wicked loud" so it's probably approaching that limit.

It sounds like you found the problem with the lo/hi switch, but as Smokinjoe suggested, mic overloading was the first thing I thought of too.  If the sound pressure level is too high, the mics will overload regardless of what you set your recorder at.  In that case, the only solution is to back away from the sound source in the venue to get lower SPL, but you won't know until you get home because your levels will be peaking at the right levels. 

I'd add that it takes wicked loud SPLs to overload the mics themselves (as opposed to the preamp circuit)...but since we're talking about internal mics on a zoom H2, I'm thinking that the specs on those mics are probably not very good, so perhaps it's possible that they could overdose.

I was stood just to the right of the bar which is a good distance away from the speakers.

I actually found out about Warbringer's sound being swoeful because I listened to the recording before Evile came on.

[augwest71]

hell i still mess up a recording from time to time...