Topic: gonna do my first matrix (sbd/aud), should I run cards or omnis?

[rhinowing]

hey guys, I'm going to record a local band saturday and they cleared me to run a matrix. It's in a fairly large room (Canopy Club in Urbana, IL)..I'll probably be set up around 30 feet back, dfc. I've got either CA-11s or SP-BMC-2s (which I think are just standard WM-61a caps). which would probably sound better on the matrix? I'm assuming omnis, right?

[Shawn]

cards because the canopy club is a big boomy room and omnis will accentuate that. you want something directional to help cut down the amount of reflected sound you pick up.

[runonce]

cards because the canopy club is a big boomy room and omnis will accentuate that. you want something directional to help cut down the amount of reflected sound you pick up.

I've found sometimes a mic choice/position that might not sound the best as a standalone recording will be the best compliment for the board mix. That goes a bit against instinct, as you can be left with an odd recording if something goes wrong with the board recording.

He may want some of that boom...

If the board mix is mono - id be more inclined to use the cards to add some stereo ambiance on top...if its a stereo board, it might just need a little slop to loosen it up...like omnis might provide...

[rhinowing]

while we're on the subject of canopy, anyone know what kind of connectors I'd need for their board?

[Shawn]

never ran out of the board there but I'd bet if you bring both RCA and XLR cables that you'll be fine.

have you ever ran omni's from the rail at the canopy? I can't imagine that it would sound good, but if you've done it and were happy with the results then go for it. I'd personally go with cards or better yet hypers if you have them.

[rowjimmytour]

while we're on the subject of canopy, anyone know what kind of connectors I'd need for their board?

If I was you I would be ready for any thing and carry: 2 x Cable to recorder>rca plus adapter plugs w/ 1/4"(TRS), XLR(F), and XLR(M).
I think I would determine my configuration and pattern by how your running your matrix. If your running four track I might go w/ omni and Healy method or something but if your mixing on the fly or using two recorders I would go cards w/ DIN being the safest in a boomy room and NOS if the room sounds good and your in the magic triangle.

[rhinowing]

never ran out of the board there but I'd bet if you bring both RCA and XLR cables that you'll be fine.

have you ever ran omni's from the rail at the canopy? I can't imagine that it would sound good, but if you've done it and were happy with the results then go for it. I'd personally go with cards or better yet hypers if you have them.

Omnis sound decent, but not great from the drink rail (assuming you didn't mean balcony rail, that's a whole other story)...Think I'll probably go with those and try to go up front. board mixes I've heard of the band sound sorta flat, soooo

edit-will be using two recorders (R-09 and Laptop)

[kbergend]

From 30' back I would recommend using cards, unless it's a very quiet room.  Omnis may be good if you can get close and above the crowd chatter.

Speaking for myself, even if I get a stereo board feed I usually mix it down to mono for a matrix because the house mix will conflict with the stereo image created by the mics.  On the other hand, if it's a really nice-sounding stereo board mix (rare in my experience) and a noisy room, you may want to go with mostly soundboard in the mixdown and just leave a little of the mics in for ambience.

I agree that if no one can tell you what kind of mixed out jacks are available on the console then definitely go prepared with RCA plugs, XLR-F connectors AND 1/4" plugs.  I've never come across the need for XLR-M myself -- doesn't the signal always travel in the direction of the plugs? 

If you're using two different recording devices, be aware they will be audibly out of synch when you mix them and you will have to correct for this.  I use Voxengo's freeware r8brain program to "fractionally resample" the board source in this situation, see this post:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=97244.15

Once you've calculated the differential between the clocks on your two recorders, you should be able to use the same resampling rate every time.

If you're not close to the stage you will also have to align the board and mic tracks to compensate for the delay in the sound reaching your mics, which will otherwise cause an unnatural echo effect.

You will love making matrix recordings, have fun!

[rowjimmytour]

I need XLR(M) twice when the FOH guy was using the other outs so I was lucky to have them Yeahh I agree not to often but I can say having them saved my a$$ twice.

[kbergend]

I need XLR(M) twice when the FOH guy was using the other outs so I was lucky to have them Yeahh I agree not to often but I can say having them saved my a$$ twice.

I stand corrected - guess I've been lucky! 

[rowjimmytour]

I need XLR(M) twice when the FOH guy was using the other outs so I was lucky to have them Yeahh I agree not to often but I can say having them saved my a$$ twice.

I stand corrected - guess I've been lucky!

Funny both times I asked the FOH twice because I thought I misunderstood him

[kbergend]

I need XLR(M) twice when the FOH guy was using the other outs so I was lucky to have them Yeahh I agree not to often but I can say having them saved my a$$ twice.

I stand corrected - guess I've been lucky!

Funny both times I asked the FOH twice because I thought I misunderstood him

The first time I did a matrix, I handed the engineer the male end of an XLR cable by mistake.  He looked at me like I had two heads and said "No man, gimme the girlie!!"

[Frequincy]

I was just at the Canopy Club last friday for Keller. A very boomy room. They had the PA aligned really well using SMART or something similar, I saw the engineer making adjustments on a laptop throughout the night and it sounded good to me. I'm not sure what the normal PA setup is for a local band though. Bring all the above mentioned cables so your bases are covered.

[raymonda]

never ran out of the board there but I'd bet if you bring both RCA and XLR cables that you'll be fine.

Bring some TRS's, too.

[rhinowing]

I was just at the Canopy Club last friday for Keller. A very boomy room. They had the PA aligned really well using SMART or something similar, I saw the engineer making adjustments on a laptop throughout the night and it sounded good to me. I'm not sure what the normal PA setup is for a local band though. Bring all the above mentioned cables so your bases are covered.

should be the standard setup, assuming they're in the main room. if they're on the hallway stage it'sgonna be a huge clusterfuck no matter what