Topic: Anyone still doing Franken Nak or phantom mods for Nak 300s?

[MarkyMark]

I've got this pair of unmodified 300s that I used once and was completely disappointed with the results, so they sat in a closet for the next 4 years. Is anyone still doing the Franken Nak or phantom mods? I tried busman a year ago but never got a reply, and tried Church Audio but was told they were too busy. Any help would be great. I'd like to do something with these instead of them just collecting dust.

[capnhook]

Hook them up to the pre-amp they were designed for, and have some fun......!

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=131763.0


 

[crazifyngers]

I emailed Sank a few weeks ago and he let me know that he still does them.  It does cost $100 per mic.  on the flip side i had busman mod my naks a few months ago for $100 total.  still thinking about getting the bodies modded though to use with cp-4 caps if i ever find them.  good luck

[runonce]

I've got this pair of unmodified 300s that I used once and was completely disappointed with the results, so they sat in a closet for the next 4 years. Is anyone still doing the Franken Nak or phantom mods? I tried busman a year ago but never got a reply, and tried Church Audio but was told they were too busy. Any help would be great. I'd like to do something with these instead of them just collecting dust.

Chances are, if you dont like the stock sound - the mods arent going to substantially change that - so, I'd be shopping for another mic. Sell them to fund your next purpose.

[Roger Gustavsson]

The basic sound of the Nakamichis will not change with a Franken mod. The modification is a way to use external power for the impedance converter behind the capsule (as in any electret microphone) and to reduce the size of the bodies. As the balancing output transformer is removed, the output raises by about 10dB, no differential output. That makes it easier to find a suitable mic preamp. If you add a resistor, you can have a differential output and 6dB extra.

It can be done in a number of different ways. I think you should contact Jon at Naiant. He have made some adpators in the past for running the Nakamichis on P48 (48V phantom) or whatever supply voltage you have. As the Nakamichis only need 7-10V to work, the 48V from a phantom supply need to be reduced.
I have a schematic from Stephen Sank that shows one way of how to run the Nakamichis on P48. It is only a matter of adding two resistors, a zener diod and some wires. He seems to keep the balancing output transformer. Very low output. You will need a mic preamp with a very low noise floor, -126dBV or even lower.


Here is a picture of my own cut-down Nakamichis.
http://www.twin-x.com/groupdiy/displayimage.php?pid=3242&fullsize=1

Here is what the Franken mod is doing inside them.
http://www.twin-x.com/groupdiy/displayimage.php?pid=2410&fullsize=1

Here is a picture of what is inside.
http://www.twin-x.com/groupdiy/displayimage.php?pid=3217&fullsize=1


Roger

[SmokinJoe]

Nak 300's aren't a bad mic in stock form.  If you used them once and got less than optimum results, maybe you should give them another try.  One thing to understand is that they do put out a rather weak signal, and if you were running them straight into the MT you probably cranked the gain and got a bunch of hiss.  I half decent preamp will fix that problem, but getting them modded won't fix that by itself.  Every mic sounds better with a decent preamp.

a) They were designed to mate with CapnHooks MX100, and I ran like that for a few years, with good results, with 2 or 3 mics. Tapes I made with one of these:
http://www.archive.org/details/aod2007-06-16.nak300.flac16f
http://www.archive.org/details/um2007-06-02.nak300.flac16f
http://www.archive.org/details/delf2007-12-28.nak300.flac16f

b) Another old standby is the UA-5 (either a simple digimod, or "enhanced"), which will give you gain and run DIGI-out to your MT.  I ran this way into a JB3 or H120 for a year or two.
http://www.archive.org/details/hbr2007-04-24.nak300.flac16f
http://www.archive.org/details/rre2007-08-10.nak300.ua5.flac16f
http://www.archive.org/details/lf2007-10-04.nak300.flac16f

c) Another one is a Denecke AD-20.  I ran like this quite a few times.  I particularly liked the flavor of this with my Nak guns, but for some reason it wasn't my favorite with card caps.  That has 20 bit instead of 24bit (which you could record as 24 bit).  This is a great sounding pre, and you won't hear any difference between 20 and 24 bit.
http://www.archive.org/details/oteil2007-07-17.nak300.flac16f
http://www.archive.org/details/bpg2007-07-17.nak300.flac16f
http://www.archive.org/details/phil2007-10-10.nak300.flac16f
http://www.archive.org/details/nrps2007-10-21.nak300.flac16f

Options A, B, and C will all provide you with a substantial improvement in the $100'ish range, or probably double that for an upgraded UA-5.

Here is a more recent tapes with a V3:
http://www.archive.org/details/mofro2009-07-24

[Roger Gustavsson]

I've got this pair of unmodified 300s that I used once and was completely disappointed with the results, so they sat in a closet for the next 4 years.

Can you tell us what you do not like? What are you recording? Stealth or non-stealth? Cardiod or omni capsules? At what distance? To my ears the cardiods sound a bit thin while recording acoustic music, low frequency needs equalizing, more at greater distancies (as for any cardiod!). The omnis have a high frequency roll off.

What is the reason for having them modified? To reduce their size? To make them run on phantom power (P48)? To change their sound? To make them more compatilbe to the rest of your recording equipment?

I would like to buy them if you have no need for them!


Roger

[MarkyMark]

Thanks very much for everyone's input; it's giving me some things to think about. I should have been more clear when I said I was disappointed with the results. Yes, I did make the mistake of running these straight into the MT and yes, I did have to crank up the levels drastically to get any signal. And as we all know the MT has a very pathetic noise floor so I ended up with a recording so low it was pretty much useless. I'm definitely not complaining about the general sound quality of the 300s (in fact, two of my favorites are the 700s and the 1000s), but I should have realized that with no preamp that this was going to happen. I definitely should have considered a decent preamp.

As for what I was recording: Leo Kottke & Mike Gordon in 2005. I ran on the right side of the balcony and had the mics (cards) aimed straight forward, probably 50' from the stacks.

I'm considering the mod not to reduce the size of the mics but I wanted to bypass the whole funky battery thing and to have them run instead on 48v. I'll check with the people mentioned and see if they can help me out. Thanks again for the help! 

[crazifyngers]

I'm considering the mod not to reduce the size of the mics but I wanted to bypass the whole funky battery thing and to have them run instead on 48v. I'll check with the people mentioned and see if they can help me out. Thanks again for the help! 

I know you said that you are doing the mod to bypass the battery but i would suggest the actives because it is less expensive.  The only reason i would say go with the phantom mod is if you want to get cp4 caps in the future. here is the breakdown

$220 - Sank 48v mod (full bodies)
$100 - Busman Franken Naks ("actives")

These are recent prices.  One thing to note the busman mod does NOT allow for 48v power.  you need to supply plug-in-power to these.  There are a few options to provide power and act as a preamp.  Currently I am using a Naiant Midbox with the 38db option and input transformer.  I find this to work very nicely with the franken naks.  The Midbox provides a balanced connection between the capsule and the preamp.  Good luck.

[runonce]

Thanks very much for everyone's input; it's giving me some things to think about. I should have been more clear when I said I was disappointed with the results. Yes, I did make the mistake of running these straight into the MT and yes, I did have to crank up the levels drastically to get any signal. And as we all know the MT has a very pathetic noise floor so I ended up with a recording so low it was pretty much useless. I'm definitely not complaining about the general sound quality of the 300s (in fact, two of my favorites are the 700s and the 1000s), but I should have realized that with no preamp that this was going to happen. I definitely should have considered a decent preamp.

As for what I was recording: Leo Kottke & Mike Gordon in 2005. I ran on the right side of the balcony and had the mics (cards) aimed straight forward, probably 50' from the stacks.

I'm considering the mod not to reduce the size of the mics but I wanted to bypass the whole funky battery thing and to have them run instead on 48v. I'll check with the people mentioned and see if they can help me out. Thanks again for the help! 

I think any solution requiring 48V should be avoided. Why waste battery power on the 48>10V conversion?

And I think most of these mods result in even LOWER output - thus worsening your noise issue.

Also - make sure you dont have the -10 pads engaged on this mic...(the hard to reach switch in the barrel that holds the capsule)

The batteries are easily found - stick with the stock mic.

[crazifyngers]

I think any solution requiring 48V should be avoided. Why waste battery power on the 48>10V conversion?

And I think most of these mods result in even LOWER output - thus worsening your noise issue.

Also - make sure you dont have the -10 pads engaged on this mic...(the hard to reach switch in the barrel that holds the capsule)

The batteries are easily found - stick with the stock mic.

While I agree that it is not hard to find the batteries your statement that the mods lower the output is actually false according to my conversations with both modders.  When you run from a small battery box there is not 48v>10v loss since those  battery boxes do not supply phantom power they only supply plug in power.  If it is a question of money then the mod will probably not pay for itself.  but if you want something that is either smaller or uses a standard battery then a mod is the way to go. 

[runonce]

I think any solution requiring 48V should be avoided. Why waste battery power on the 48>10V conversion?

And I think most of these mods result in even LOWER output - thus worsening your noise issue.

Also - make sure you dont have the -10 pads engaged on this mic...(the hard to reach switch in the barrel that holds the capsule)

The batteries are easily found - stick with the stock mic.

While I agree that it is not hard to find the batteries your statement that the mods lower the output is actually false according to my conversations with both modders.

Roger - any input here...?

Fingers - I think you are correct. Im just recalling anectdotal stuff I've read here. (I think Im envisioning leegeddys original setup with the AT adapters) - Perhaps the Franken-mod has be "redefined" abit to only include the rewiring. How you power it is the difference. I see Roger references the removal of the transformer creating some bonus gain. I think the original mod used the AT setup with transformers. Pretty sure I recall the early adopters of the Franken-nak noting reduced gain....

And I do understand that the low power/non-phantom options exist and are preferable...the Niant solutions sound the most promising/sensible.

[gdplusmore]

Here are some shows with Stock Naks if you wold like to hear the sound you can get..

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/gdplusmore

[Roger Gustavsson]

I'm considering the mod not to reduce the size of the mics but I wanted to bypass the whole funky battery thing and to have them run instead on 48v. I'll check with the people mentioned and see if they can help me out. Thanks again for the help!

$220 - Sank 48v mod (full bodies)
$100 - Busman Franken Naks ("actives")

Quite a lot of money! I have a schematic I received from Sank. It is really not "rocket sience" to do that! As it still uses the balancing transformer the output is very low (it will not change because of P48!). That is why I like the solution Naiant have. It will give you at least 16dB more from the microphone (16dB less gain needed), making it easier to find a suitable mic preamp. It is only a matter of adding one single resistor and a two wires. The 9V can be from an external battery. The "Franken" is even simpler, just adding a wire and an external battery.

There is nothing strange with the battery inside the Nakamichis! You can replace it with two lithium 1/2AA-sized 3.6V/950mAh in series and it will last for 1000 hours, http://www.kjell.com/content/media/images/items/32265.jpg .

If your mic preamp is not delivering P48 (48V of phantom power), I see no point in going for it. It use to make the whole preamp more complicated and more expensive, especially if it is a battery powered unit. Naiant's own mic preamp Littlebox seems to be a bit noisier than the Nakamichi mics but as you seem to do stealth recordings it may not be a problem. It also comes with different powering options.

The output of an original CM-300 is 1.6mV/94dB. This is LOW.

Bypass the balancing output transformer raises it to at least 5.1mV/94dB. No differential output but it may suit some handheld recodring devices. Yes, the output impedance goes up to about 500 Ohm, keep the cables short.

Let the JFET inside the Nakamichs work as a phase splitter and you will have another 6dB or 10.2mV/94dB. Differential output with 500 Ohm impedance.

AT and simular adapters seems to do the same thing as the Nakamichi transformer, it drops the output by about 10dB. That is not what we want!
 
My own recordings of acoustic music (no stealth!) use to give peak levels at 25-50mV. My recording device needs 2450mV (+10dBu) for 0dBFS, 30dB of gain is suitable if microphones are on stage. Many of those handheld recorders seems to have 0dBFS at 775mV (0dBu). 20dB of gain is what is needed then (or even less if your source is at high level). As always, the distance to the stage is important too! I have no idea of what kind of gain will be needed in stealth situations....

Yes, I have a few schematics on varoius solutions. The ones I like most are the up-front mic preamps that fits inside the microphones.


Roger


PS. I have heard some comparsion between Nakamichi CM-300 and Schopes, there is very little difference! DS.

[SmokinJoe]

Just buy some of the EV206  batteries for $10 each from some place on the web.  As long as take them out between shows (to avoid accidentally leaving the mic on and draining the battery), the batteries will last you 2 years worth of shows.  $20 or $220, your choice.  Also, you get a lot more battery live out of your preamp if you don't need to engage the phantom power, which is an advantage for weekend festivals.  Or in the case of the AD-20, you don't need to buy a PS2, just the AD-20.

I know the idea of special batteries seems like a pain in the ass, but it's really not in the long run.