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Author Topic: Mics that use P12?  (Read 5965 times)

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Mics that use P12?
« on: February 18, 2010, 11:15:39 PM »
I was looking at that Cooper Pre that dirk's helping sell (cause I need a preamp like I need a hole in my head...) and it was pointed out that the amp could be modified to pump out P12 instead of 12T. My beyers will handle P12 (the 900 series in general, maybe others as well), and the Schoeps CCM series and CMC6 bodies will as well. What others out there will?
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

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Offline John Willett

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Re: Mics that use P12?
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2010, 08:26:46 AM »
Lots of AKG condensers use 12-48V phantom (sometimes described as 9-52V).

The Sennheiser K6 series also use this as do several other electrets of theirs.

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Re: Mics that use P12?
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2010, 09:35:38 AM »
Lots of AKG condensers use 12-48V phantom (sometimes described as 9-52V).

The Sennheiser K6 series also use this as do several other electrets of theirs.

Yeah, the 451s will (xnay the 480s or 414s). Thanks.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

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Re: Mics that use P12?
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2010, 10:07:28 AM »
Here is a very interesting and probably little known summary about schoeps CMC5/CMC3 that David Satz summarized a few days back...

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=132179.msg1735037#msg1735037

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Re: Mics that use P12?
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2010, 11:32:30 AM »
Here is a very interesting and probably little known summary about schoeps CMC5/CMC3 that David Satz summarized a few days back...

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=132179.msg1735037#msg1735037

interesting. I was trolling the schoeps site last night and didn't see the CMC3, but remember reading literature in specs about it. Didn't even think of it last night though. Thanks.

On an unrelated note, the rolloffs of various bodies is equally interesting.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

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Re: Mics that use P12?
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2010, 11:39:02 AM »
Lots of AKG condensers use 12-48V phantom (sometimes described as 9-52V).

The Sennheiser K6 series also use this as do several other electrets of theirs.

Yeah, the 451s will (xnay the 480s or 414s). Thanks.

Actually, the AKG 460s also run 12-48, and the 414 ULS also I believe. The 480s and the 414 XLS and TL require P48 exclusively, I think.
AKG C460B w/CK61/CK63>Luminous Monarch XLRs>SD MP-1(x2)>Luminous Monarch XLRs>PMD661(Oade WMOD)

Beyer M201>Luminous Monarch XLRs>PMD561 (Oade CMOD)

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Re: Mics that use P12?
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2010, 11:45:12 AM »
Lots of AKG condensers use 12-48V phantom (sometimes described as 9-52V).

The Sennheiser K6 series also use this as do several other electrets of theirs.

Yeah, the 451s will (xnay the 480s or 414s). Thanks.

Actually, the AKG 460s also run 12-48, and the 414 ULS also I believe. The 480s and the 414 XLS and TL require P48 exclusively, I think.

yeah, I couldn't find stats on the 460s easily enough this morning. The 4 414 models they have on their site currently (XL2, BXL2, XLS, and BXLS) all are stated as P48 only.  :-\
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

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Re: Mics that use P12?
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2010, 03:41:58 PM »
Lots of AKG condensers use 12-48V phantom (sometimes described as 9-52V).

The Sennheiser K6 series also use this as do several other electrets of theirs.

Yeah, the 451s will (xnay the 480s or 414s). Thanks.

Actually, the AKG 460s also run 12-48, and the 414 ULS also I believe. The 480s and the 414 XLS and TL require P48 exclusively, I think.

yeah, I couldn't find stats on the 460s easily enough this morning. The 4 414 models they have on their site currently (XL2, BXL2, XLS, and BXLS) all are stated as P48 only.  :-\

Here is a link from the AKG site to the manual for the 414B-ULS

http://www.akg.com/mediendatenbank2/psfile/datei/19/C414B_ULS4055c233c018f.pdf

And a link for the 460B-ULS

http://www2.akg.com/mediendatenbank2/psfile/datei/50/C_460_B4055d332d6126.zip

Both are P12-P48, unlike the 414 XLS and 480B-ULS that are each P48 only.
AKG C460B w/CK61/CK63>Luminous Monarch XLRs>SD MP-1(x2)>Luminous Monarch XLRs>PMD661(Oade WMOD)

Beyer M201>Luminous Monarch XLRs>PMD561 (Oade CMOD)

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Re: Mics that use P12?
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2010, 04:13:06 PM »
yeah, I couldn't find stats on the 460s easily enough this morning. The 4 414 models they have on their site currently (XL2, BXL2, XLS, and BXLS) all are stated as P48 only.  :-\

Here is a link from the AKG site to the manual for the 414B-ULS

http://www.akg.com/mediendatenbank2/psfile/datei/19/C414B_ULS4055c233c018f.pdf

And a link for the 460B-ULS

http://www2.akg.com/mediendatenbank2/psfile/datei/50/C_460_B4055d332d6126.zip

Both are P12-P48, unlike the 414 XLS and 480B-ULS that are each P48 only.

gratzie
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

Offline newplanet7

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Re: Mics that use P12?
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2010, 11:31:44 AM »
Just an FYI, when I brought this up before I was told otherwise by dsatz.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=121969.msg1629307#msg1629307

I'm not sure what professional level is though.
I guess maybe it could've been my wording of most.
However quite a few according to spec will run on it.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2010, 11:45:43 AM by newplanet7 »
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Offline DSatz

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Re: Mics that use P12?
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2010, 12:14:27 PM »
newplanet7, I'm sorry if my earlier reply seemed dismissive, but I think it's important for people to be very clear that this is a serious issue. You're right, there are many good microphones, and even a few professional-quality ones (some Schoeps and AKG models, for example) that will run well on 12-Volt phantom powering as long as the available current is enough.

But in the earlier thread you said, and I quote, "Most mics can run well under 48v without issue." I had to dispute such a general statement, as I think you understand now. A manufacturer's powering specifications don't have an arbitrary amount of "wiggle room." The tolerance limits for the four standard powering methods (P12, P24, P48 and T12) are listed in the ISO specification. Those are the limits which the microphone manufacturers expect to be maintained, and they're not very wide.

Even though some microphones do allow wider tolerances than the standard, those wider tolerances don't carry over to other microphones in general. Even a single manufacturer (such as AKG) can have some microphones with wide tolerances and others with narrow tolerances.

With professional microphones, guessing or relying on intuition or dumb luck about how to power and connect them is a particularly bad idea, because most of the high-end manufacturers are pickier about powering than the run-of-the-mill far Eastern electrets are. (Even an AKG with "9-52 Volt powering" still needs enough current, and with some of their models, that's more than many low-end power supplies can provide.) So people who extrapolate from their experience with lower-end microphones are apt to be caught in a trap, and that's the situation I'm trying to prevent.

--best regards
« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 08:31:33 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline newplanet7

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Re: Mics that use P12?
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2010, 04:59:57 PM »
No worries David.
I realized my words were misleading in the other thread.
-todd
MILAB VM-44 Classic~> Silver T's~> Busman PMD660
News From Phish: Will tour as opening act for Widespread Panic for Summer
hahaha never happen, PHiSH is waaaaayyyy better the WSP

They both ain't got nothing on MMW... Money spent wisely if you ask me...


FYI, it is a kick ass recording of a bunch of pretend-a-hippies talking.

 

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