Topic: Noob taping at SXSW

[mrserkan]

Hey everyone,

First off, apologies if some more searching would have yielded an answer, but I'm pre-noob at this so even the correct search terms evade me.

I spent the last week at SXSW in Austin and in preparation I bought two things - an Edirol R-09HR and a Sony ECMDS70P since having the big edirol out can be difficult. I thought this would make for a reasonable setup for recording stuff easily, but pretty much everything I recorded ended up coming out pretty crappy. I am bummed.

Some specific questions I have are -

- what's the deal with AGC/LMT, since with it on I still tend to hit the peak led, and at pretty much any level the mp3s I get out are pretty low volume
- I had hoped the mic built into the edirol would sound good, but I think the small sony one actually sounds better
- Are there any good strategies, mic placements or anything that will reduce hearing others' conversations?
- What can I use to post-process the files (compression, eq balance, etc.)

But really I was just hoping someone could give me some tips or tell me if a portable setup for recording a live show is always going to sound crappy.

Thanks in advance! I have a (decent) recording of The Black Keys' set at Mohawks which was phenomenal if anyone is interested in a copy, happy to post it somewhere

[achalsey]

I'm basically in the same position (i.e. I'm new to taping and asking really basic questions) so here is basically a layman's terms version of what people will probably say:

First: NO! A good portable (as all of them are, more or less) setup can get great sounding recordings, and can be relatively inexpensive. 

From what I've found from people around here, is that mic quality and LOCATION are two key factors for a good recording.  (along with remembering to hit "record"  )

The R-09HR seems to be a really good beginner recorder (I just bought the old R-09), but the internal mics are definitely not preferable to use to tape a show.  So that's definitely a good foundation to a decent rig, but for higher quality recordings you probably want to invest in some quality external mics.

Which leads into your Sony mics.  From a brief check they don't look like the best for a live show.  You might be able to get something decent with those into your R-09HR but the setting would pretty much have to be perfect, so that will be a LONG shot if you're looking for anything really listenable that you'll feel proud of. 
From what I've heard (and invested in) Chris Church makes reasonably priced quality mics.  Seeing as I've joined the CA team I don't mind advertising at all.  He's got crazy deals as seen here:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=130844.0

But that did come from good recommendations:  I knew I was going to make the plunge and buy some (relatively) inexpensive gear and here are some good answers to a cheap but quality rig:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=132722.msg1740241#msg1740241

OH, and that brings us to your next question.  Seems as though the golden rule is LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION.  If you can find the "sweet spot" (generally running over peoples heads (6-7 ft high) DFC (Direct F#$king Center) at the point of an equilateral triangle with the predominate amps) you'll be good to go.  Some good Cardioid mics in the right positions (DIN, ORTF, split, whatever, you can look those configurations up) in the right spot and above the crowd will really reduce the crowd noise.  Just wikipedia "Stereophonics" for basics (or search the boards here).

Here's a really good place to start for general mic info too.  Read carefully!  If you're really trying to figure it out, make sure you got a general grasp of this and go from there:

http://www.churchsoundcheck.com/micsarecool.html


And as far as cleaning up a poor quality pull, it seems that you're better just scraping (or putting aside somewhere ) rather than attempting to try all sorts of stuff that won't help too much.  Sort of a live and learn approach.

So, thats a very basic version of what I've gathered from around TS.  Sorry, its a little long winded for little info, for a beginner (like myself) its the foundation I've assembled from how to get into the game.  Last thing I'd add is to ASK QUESTIONS!  This is a great community and seem more than helpful with anything. 
And if you're at a show, find a taper and ask (before/after the show, or during set breaks of course ) about his rig, where to fly your own from, or anything else...or just buy him a beer  . 

 

[acidjack]

First, I would say that a fest like SXSW is about the worst new environment to start taping in.... total madhouse, people are wasted/scenesters (so lots of talking), shows are packed. Uggh. I'd love to go to SXSW, but I wouldn't want to learn taping by doing it. 

Location is key.  Two choices: Get as close to one stack as possible, or make an equilateral triangle with yourself and the stacks.  Opinions vary as to what is better.  Stack taping has the advantage of more direct sound, which is advantageous if morons around you are talking all the time.  However, a properly done non-stack tape is a more realistic representation of the show.

Turn all of those limiters, etc. to OFF.  In general, turn off anything on that deck that purports to do anything automatically.  That is all stuff geared to voice, rather than music, recording. 

Mics. The Sony mic and the built-ins are both garbage.  I recommend either the products of Sound Professionals (SP-CMC-8, SP-CMC-4, SP-BMC-2, etc.) or Church Audio.  Church is custom built and takes longer to get but many people love the sound and they offer great bang for the buck.   You can get a good complete mic setup for about $200 or less.  See Church's posts in the Retail Space.

Post: Download Trader's Little Helper (if you're windows) or xAct (Mac) plus Audacity for mastering/tracking/downsampling/EQ/editing.  All of those programs are free.  I use xAct and Audacity for post.  You can get fancier stuff than Audacity, but it does everything I need it to do.

In general, read this board... Lots of good info there.

Best of luck on your future recordings.

[Aladar]

What are/(were?) you taping? I would love to hear MC Frontalot and the Protomen sets! (Especially The Protomen! Absolutely adrore them!

[earmonger]

SXSW is thankless. People talk through everything. Also, some of those clubs (and the Fader Fort)  have just dreadful sound.

No mic or recorder is smart enough to do what your brain does and tune the talkers out. All the recorder can do is pick up the soundwaves that it gets thrugh the mic.  The best way to deal with conversation is to get away from it. Tapers' section tapers at jam-band shows put their mics on high poles, above the talkers.  A cardioid (directional) mic can be helpful if the conversation is behind you and the show is in front of you, but your DS70P is directional, so obviously there are limitations.

You will want better mics soon. DS70P is really made for speech--it's got no bass register (100Hz)--and it's not particularly sensitive, which is why you're getting low levels.

Don't use AFC. Manual always for music. Go to some shows, look at the display and after a few you'll have an idea of what the manual levels should be.

Location is everything. Moving a few feet in a club can make a huge change in the sound. To find the best location you need to tune out visual cues--yes, you have been lip-reading the lead singer--and listen. A good rule of thumb is to stand near the sound booth--the sound person only has that location to judge by--or perhaps near a speaker (because you're actually taping the speaker, not the stage).

Forget SXSW and go to a club where people paid to get in and may actually have come to listen instead of trade business cards. But if you get serious about taping you will be amazed at how rude even the paying customers are. The guy trying to impress his date with color commentary, the gossip girls, the jealous amateur musicians, the boozed-up singalongers... they're all standing right next to you.