Topic: Gefell is Neumann?

[slightlys]

More than a little board here at work today! So I was reading the wiki on Gefell and Neumann mics. From what I gathered the Nuemann factory moved to Gefell after fire bombing of Berlin in WWII and apon reunification in the early 90's they found that the Gefells' were actually more electronically advanced then what they were calling Neumanns. i found it interesting to say the least.

[OOK]

Gefell is actually the true Neumann and the Neumann of today is owned by Sennheiser.....

[slightlys]

Gefell is actually the true Neumann and the Neumann of today is owned by Sennheiser.....

That is exactly what I gathered from the wiki.

[DSatz]

The blurb that you're quoting is a public relations piece from quite a few years ago. Its historical outlines are factual for the most part, but what it leaves out is at least as important as what it says.

First of all, the basic assumption that only one or the other company can be the "real" Neumann is simply false. When the Berlin workshop was firebombed, Mr. Neumann moved what left of his production facilities to Gefell--but then after the armistice he re-established his Berlin workshop. So for a time both companies were very much "the real Neumann." But once the East German state was established and the Gefell operation became a largely state-run enterprise (eventually becoming part of RFT), Georg Neumann never again had anything to say about how that company was run, what products it made or how good they were (or in many cases, weren't).

East Germany wasn't as drab and awful a place as it was portrayed in the West, but it certainly didn't experience the "economic miracle" of the 1950s. Nor was there a thriving, well-funded broadcast and recording industry in the East for Gefell to sell its products to. So their operation was nothing like what Neumann's became in Berlin. To the "vintage" microphone fanatics of today, the 1950s were Neumann (Berlin)'s finest years, while Gefell microphones of that era aren't particularly well regarded. To the extent they're used in studios today, they often have been reworked with higher-quality parts.

For many years Gefell had no access to first-quality materials or production processes. I'm sure they would have given just about anything to have access to (for example) tensilized Mylar for the membranes in their capsules, or low-noise FETs from the West. But East German currency was valueless in the West, and without mutual recognition between governments there was no legal basis for making business arrangements between Eastern and Western companies. Those weren't good years for the company as a high-end outfit.

Metrotech Gefell in the years since German re-unification is another story entirely--a creditable enterprise with a great deal of engineering savvy. They're good people who got to where they are today through systematic technical development, not by trying to live out a mythos. I say good for them, and good luck to them.

--best regards

[John Willett]

DSatz has put this all very well.

Of course the "real" Neumann is the company started and run by Georg Neumann himself and was sold to Sennheiser in 1991 (I think) after his death. Although owned by Sennheiser, Neumann is basically a separate company with its head office in Berlin.

The Gefell mics that first came over to the UK in the late 1980's were not very good and very unreliable - however, they improved beyond recognition since then and are certainly now on my short list of the top mic. manufacturers.

[slightlys]

Thanks for sharing! I just love history.

[Roger Gustavsson]

There are information available.

http://www.microtechgefell.de/eng/history/HistoriePDF/historymicrotechgefell.pdf
http://www.neumann.com/?lang=en&id=about_us_overview


I think we will have to understand the there were quite a big gap between civil and military use of technology in the former GDR. Just visited a military radio bunker while in Germany over Easter.


Roger

[fotoralf.be]

For many years Gefell had no access to first-quality materials or production processes. I'm sure they would have given just about anything to have access to (for example) tensilized Mylar for the membranes in their capsules, or low-noise FETs from the West. But East German currency was valueless in the West, and without mutual recognition between governments there was no legal basis for making business arrangements between Eastern and Western companies. Those weren't good years for the company as a high-end outfit.

Open any professional laboratory or communications equipment made by RFT in the mid 70s to the mid 80s and you'll be in for a surprise: loads of components from the West, mainly Philips and TI. And not only for military equipment.

To my knowledge, the Western U47 and U67 had no tensilized Mylar membranes either.

Ralf

[DSatz]

RFT was a larger concern than just the Gefell microphone factory, and even the Gefell microphone factory made a wide range of products, from strictly utilitarian (public address) equipment with no pretensions to higher quality on the one hand, to measurement microphones on the other end that set a very high standard.

Just FYI the Neumann (Berlin) U 47 replaced the original PVC membranes with tensilized Mylar (polyester) ones starting in 1959-60, and the U 67 had them from the beginning. Among manufacturers that are at all well known today, only Gefell continued to produce PVC diaphragms after that time. They also continued (and still continue) to make small condenser microphone capsules with nickel diaphragms, which Neumann, Schoeps and AKG abandoned as quickly as possible. Ironically, this means that some people have turned to Gefell to restore the capsules of their Neumann (Berlin) KM 54s since Neumann can't do that any more.

In the socialist countries it was sometimes possible to obtain certain things from the West by buying them through a neutral third country such as Austria, which had treaties with both "Germanies," or through another socialist country that had fewer (or simply different) trade restrictions. That's how the messy business of the so-called "Hungarian Schoeps" microphones began, for example. But that kind of trade was subject to uncertainties and a level of expense which could not always be spared. The East German government was fanatical in wanting to avoid any speculation or manipulation of their currency, or indeed any dependencies on the West to the extent possible, so imports and exports were tightly controlled as a rule.

Nowadays if you send an older Gefell microphone to Microtech Gefell for overhaul, they can generally improve its basic level of performance significantly. There are also individual technicians who have done a lot of custom upgrade work on older Gefell microphones. If I saw a 1950s or 1960s Gefell microphone that sounded good, worked well and had high-quality parts in it, I would assume that work had been done on it.

--best regards

[sparkey]

One of the things I've heard is that Hitler generously funded microphone research to assist him in addressing large groups of people.  I haven't read any independent verification of this, but it goes along with the Nazis using new types of communication technologies (and propaganda based on American advertising) to sway public opinion to support the war.

[DSatz]

I dunno. I don't really see much progress in microphone design as having occurred during the Hitler period. Radio broadcasting and audio recording, definitely--but microphones seem not to have progressed nearly so much as the intensive application of all this technology for propaganda purposes.

The Nazi era began during a prolonged economic collapse, and most German homes didn't have radio receivers yet. The regime made a huge effort to get low-cost radios produced and sold to as many homes as possible. Of course the Nazis controlled all transmissions in the limited bands that those radios could receive. So I really see the overall emphasis being more on hooking the population in to party-controlled mass media--primarily movies, radio, and (in the population centers) mass rallies.

An aura of authority was a definite part of what the new audio technology lent to those who controlled it. For people who've never heard clearly reproduced audio before, its effect can be uncanny and intimidating--both very useful feelings for the ruling party to evoke when they want to. And no doubt "crisp," clear, "present" sounding microphones were an important part of that effect.

But the most advanced microphones that were used during the war period didn't seem to develop technically during that time: the Neumann CMV 3 as distributed by Telefunken, with its various capsules and other attachments--a product series that predated Hitler's rise to power by a few years. And microphones such as the Neumann U 47, or the founding of Schoeps, AKG, Beyer and Sennheiser, are all post-war phenomena--part of the rebuilding after the great catastrophe.

--best regards

P.S.: In Telefunken's 1939 brochure for the CMV 3 series, a very revealing note of warning appears on the final page (see attached image, just above the diamond insignia): "Telefunken condenser microphones may be used only for the purposes that are expressly authorized at the time of sale."

[notlance]

This reminds me of the old joke:

What is the difference between the US and Germany?

In the US, everything is permitted that's not forbidden,

In Germany, everything is forbidden that's not permitted.

[dactylus]

Nowadays if you send an older Gefell microphone to Microtech Gefell for overhaul, they can generally improve its basic level of performance significantly. There are also individual technicians who have done a lot of custom upgrade work on older Gefell microphones. If I saw a 1950s or 1960s Gefell microphone that sounded good, worked well and had high-quality parts in it, I would assume that work had been done on it.

--best regards

^
Peter Drefahl of drefahlaudio.com has "restored" all of the "vintage" Gefell MV69x's amplifiers and the Neumann/Gefell m582's that I own and has replaced the older, noisier, RFT components with the better quality components available to him today.  Peter does superb work by the way. 

If you have never visited Peter's site it is worth your time to do so:  www.drefahlaudio.com
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