Topic: What's Best Mic/Gear Setup for a Venue?

[Gutbucket]

the guy probably won't want to mess around with the computer in post and he probably wants to get a good sounding recording with minimal effort,

If he finds a way to make consistently good sounding recordings with minimal effort and without doing any post work with a computer, he ought to publish a book on how to do it. I can't imagine being able to do that myself.

He dials it in to something that usually works in that room, with that sound sytem & which takes minimal effort to save, burn for the band/artist, etc.  It all depends on his expectations of sound quality and of desired effort.  I'd consider aoaching it like the guys above. I think the (6+stereo mix) Tascam is a great idea, even if he only wants to deal with a mostly hands-off stereo recording:

ch1/2 record a stereo board feed, or better a dedicated mix or maye a 4 channel board sub-mix on chs1234
ch3/4 record an on stage omni pair
ch5/6 record a room/FOB or wide stage crowd facing pair
--and the clincher--
ch7/8 record an internal mix of the 6 channels above.

ask Tonedeaf's advice on initial placment of non-SBD mics in the room, dial in the board mix + internal recorder matrix over the first weeks. this might be the only time I'd actually consider using the recording effects on my R-44.. If I dialed in playback eq / whatever on the recorder then used those same settings as recording effects. . similar features on the DR-680 I assume.

Then he's to the point where he's got a quick, easy, usually quite nice sounding stereo mix.  He can keep the other 6 channels if space isn't an issue, if he want's to mess with it further, if it's an especially important night.. or toss those and not have that burden if he's got other things to worry about or enjoy.  He also has options for changing things around if he gets into the recording aspect.

[fmaderjr]

I'm also going to tell ya that no matter what, to get a good polished sound, there is going to be post production work.

Exactly.

[SmokinJoe]

I can see the goodness behind a CD burner... the guy is busy... while he is running around doing everything else, he wants to pop a disk in, let it run, pop it out at the end.  The problem is that it's a one shot deal... and what happens if it runs over 80 minutes?

I would suggest an R4 (used stock one is fine) with 2 channels of mics, and 2 channels of SBD, and patch a CD burner out of that via SPDIF (or analog if necessary).  Record into both.  90% of the time he will use the CD that comes out and be happy with it.  If something happens to the CD (runs over time, bad disk) then copy the files off the R4 to a computer, or even just hit "Play" on the R4 and run it into the CD burner again which is already hooked up.   If someone wants to take the raw files out of the R4 and mix them more carefully, they can.  Get in the habit of formatting the drive on the R4 once a week to make sure it doesn't fill up.  Other recorders besides an R4 would work, but I think a hard drive that will hold a week's worth of stuff is easier than flash memory (also avoids "Oh Crap! I left the flash card at home!").

Put the mics overhead, mounted to the lightbar, that way no one spills beer on them.  Run the mics through the snake, and on the SBD end of the snake, run them right into the R4, and not the SBD.  2 reasons for this...
- if they are condensers they need phantom power, and since probably nothing else on the SBD is using phantom power, they won't have phantom power turned on.
- if the mics go into the board, the sound guy will accidentally mess with the levels or something.  Run them into the R4 and forget about it.

If the mics are fairly close to the stage/stacks the time delay is low (10' is OK), and mixing on the fly is not a big problem.  Ideally, though since you know where the mics are permanently mounted X distance from there should be some little black delay box you can add in the SBD patch line to add an equal delay to that chain, then the on the fly mix is timed correctly.

Mics don't need to be exotic... that debate could go on and on.  One thing I wouldn't recommend is bright mics, or ones with a big "presence hump" because mics mounted overhead will already tend to get more than their fair share of cymbals, and mics with a big presence hump would tend to overemphasize that.  Something with a good bass response would be good, especially if the sound guys don't run the bass guitar through the SBD.  If these mics don't pick it up, it won't get in the recording.

[SmokinJoe]

By the way... most of us taping different stuff, different places all the time, and nothing is consistant.  This isn't going to be like this.

I go to the local bar every Wednesday night and record "Open Mic Night".  After doing this many times I can walk in there, put the same mics up in the same place, plug into the board, put all my gain settings the same as last week, and hit record.    Several times have run SPDIF out of my R4 (which is an "on the fly mix") into a laptop or H120 and used that mix to burn CDs rather than spending the time to mix in post.  It becomes a question of "how good is good enough for the amount of time I'm willing to put into it".   If I record music in an evening, and then have to spend 2 more evenings mixing, that becomes too much work and I get burned out and quit, especially if it isn't music that you particular like.    Going right to the CD burner instead of to a computer, and then burning a CD is the next logical step... I just don't happen to have a standalone CD burner.

Bottom line... an on-the-fly mix that takes 5 minutes work that is 95% as good as one that takes 2 extra hours... it becomes a no brainer .  You only kill yourself doing the post work on special occasions.