Topic: Mic placement

[HarpDoc]

I'm going to be recording my band into a dr-2d for the first time friday. I'll be getting the unit fri, so no time to practice with its 4-track recording option.

Here's the plan. We run vocals only into the PA, so I'll run the mixer signal into the Tascam line-in. I'll be running ca-11 mics into ca-9100 into Tascam mic-in. Since vocals will be recorded straight from the board, I want to put the mics immediately in front of the band, maybe 2-3 ft. high, so as to record only instruments/amps with minimal crowd noise. I have both cardioid and omni caps. For this mic placement right up against the band, which caps do you recommend using and in what configuration? I have a head that I sometimes use with the omnis. I have a bar for various configurations with the cards. I've never run spaced pair and don't really have  good way of mounting for that at the present time.

[stevetoney]

Given what you have available to you, I think my first choice would be split omni's on-stage.  Even though you said you don't have anything to mount them onto, it seems simple enough to jury rig something up to hang each mic a couple feet up off the stage.  Just try to make sure each mic is positioned logically so that no single instrument will overpower and that to whatever degree of control you have, that all instruments on that side of the stage would have similar volume at each mic.  Obviously, you wouldn't want one of the mics 2 feet from the kickdrum, for example.

Second choice would be to run your cards DIN (90degrees, 20cm apart) near the front of the stage.  I'll assume that you'll be singing vocals from stage front, so perhaps you could position the cards just below the vocal mic at the stage lip (but behind the on-stage monitors) so that you won't be picking up much of the stage vocals (since you said you'll be mixing vocals in from the SBD).  I'd go DIN because if you go wider angles, you might lose whatever is in the center.  I'd also try to make sure that the on-stage amps aren't the outside of the DIN angle.  IOW, wherever the mics are setup, make sure that the angle of incidence of the mics doesn't exclude any of the on-stage sound sources, so before the show, move your amps towards the center if you need to in order to keep them from being too far outside the DIN angle. 

EDIT to add:  You might even consider NOS spacing to enhance stereo imaging.  I know people that have had great luck with NOS spacing near the stage lip.  I've personally had great luck with imaging in the DIN config at the stage lip and I'd be concerned with too much spacing and losing the sounds from the middle, but NOS is worth considering.  Having said this, my favorite config at stage lip is mid-side, but that's not an option for you.

Both of the above options should give you a nice stereo recording of the instruments and then you can mix your vocals in to taste during post.  The first option would potentially have less crowd noise, unless there's some way you can keep people off the stage lip yelling 'free bird' at you. 

[HarpDoc]

Thanks for the help Tonedeaf. I did split-omni one night and DIN the next. The room was pretty reverby on the first night and the split-omnis captured a bit too much of it. However, I can tell that for a good room or outdoors, split-omni is a great way to go from just in front of the stage. The DIN worked great--not that ambient magic of split-omni but a clear, solid recording.

[stevetoney]

Nice.  It's good to know what your results were.  It's interesting how all of the variables work together to contribute to the end result in the live music setting.  I wish is was more science, but I think there's as much art to it as science.  All the same, it's nice to have options available (like having multiple capsule patterns) to optimize the situation that's presented.

[Church-Audio]

Thanks for the help Tonedeaf. I did split-omni one night and DIN the next. The room was pretty reverby on the first night and the split-omnis captured a bit too much of it. However, I can tell that for a good room or outdoors, split-omni is a great way to go from just in front of the stage. The DIN worked great--not that ambient magic of split-omni but a clear, solid recording.

I always say omni with baffles. Put baffles behind the omni mics to reduce the crowd noise. It does work to a degree, I like to use acoustic tile like the type in recording studios for this because it breaks up the reflections going back into the mics.. the baffles do not have to be huge.. They can be as small as 8 inches in diameter. As long as they are close to the mics rear end.  Experimentation with the core material is essential.

Chris

[HarpDoc]

Chris, that's an interesting idea that I've never heard of. I know about a baffle between the mics, but not behind. So is the baffle the acoustic foam mounted to a solid surface, or just the foam with nothing solid behind it? Can you (or someone else) provide a picture of your setup and how you have it all mounted?

Thanks,

Brendan

[Church-Audio]

Chris, that's an interesting idea that I've never heard of. I know about a baffle between the mics, but not behind. So is the baffle the acoustic foam mounted to a solid surface, or just the foam with nothing solid behind it? Can you (or someone else) provide a picture of your setup and how you have it all mounted?

Thanks,

Brendan

Actually you might not need much of a "solid" surface.. The surface could be cardboard with the foam on it. You can make it in a semi circle behind the mic. It would baffle some of the HF from behind the mic. It would do nothing for LF and MF behind the mic however. But most audience chatter is around 800hz to 8k. This baffle would be effective at that range.
The really whack drawing is only to demonstrate the concept. Remember that experimentation will be necessary. You will have to make sure that there is some distance between the mic and the baffle in order to reduce its effect. Also its going to be a fine line between sight lines and the size of the baffle.


Chris

[HarpDoc]

Good stuff Chris. I appreciate your help with this. I'm going to have fun going into mad scientist mode with this. I think I'll order some of this stuff (unless you think it's the wrong thing to use) and start experimenting.

http://www.amazon.com/Auralex-Wedge-Studiofoam-Acoustic-Single/dp/B0036PR3VU/ref=sr_1_18?ie=UTF8&s=musical-instruments&qid=1274732473&sr=1-18

[Church-Audio]

Good stuff Chris. I appreciate your help with this. I'm going to have fun going into mad scientist mode with this. I think I'll order some of this stuff (unless you think it's the wrong thing to use) and start experimenting.

http://www.amazon.com/Auralex-Wedge-Studiofoam-Acoustic-Single/dp/B0036PR3VU/ref=sr_1_18?ie=UTF8&s=musical-instruments&qid=1274732473&sr=1-18

Now you know why I dont draw much lol....

[splumer]

Call me crazy, but aren't you essentially turning the omnis into cards?

[Church-Audio]

Call me crazy, but aren't you essentially turning the omnis into cards?

Not really.. With cards you have sound ports that are 180 degrees out from the front of the capsule ( well actually the phase angle depends on the ports and how they are constructed ) The directionality with cards comes from Phase cancellation. This is more of a sound barrier then a way of making the mic "directional" If you look at the way recordings were done in the studio and sometimes still are. They used baffles in between instruments to control leakage into microphones. This works along the same way.. But the size of the baffle makes it less effective for low frequency then high frequency. Again experimentation will give the best balance between size and blockage of site lines and effectiveness for crowd attenuation.

Chris