Topic: TASCAM DR-680 portable 8-track Part 2

[kirk97132]

^^^  Nope no "delay" settings.   But if you record tracks as mono you could put as much of a lead in space as you wanted in post.   I'm wondering how you would determine the amounts of "delay" you would want in the field.   I put the word delay in quotations because  I think one needs to be careful, if you say delay to a FOH person they would assume you meant a delay effects unit   Which is something entirely different than what you mean.  Basically....if I understand you right....you want a "lag" time inserted at the beginning of a track.   I guess you are trying to make adjustments for the distances between mics?

[Gutbucket]

Yes, time delay for mic placement alignment, or mics and soundboard primarily.. also used for slight but exacting delays needed for some of Michael Williams's surround configurations (the Stereo Zoom guy) as part of his multi-microphone configuration variables along with angle and spacing, in order to properly 'link' the indivual recording angle regions between mic pairs.  That could all be reason to use it when recording.

In my case, I'd also use it at the playback to dial in a quick & dirty 'close-enough' sync for many of my multichannel recordings made with seperate un-synced decks with 'pretty close' but not exact start times.

Yes all that can be done in the DAW, but it's nice to bypass the computer hassle sometimes and get straight to listening.

[kirk97132]

As for the unsynced decks, I have found that the drift is more of an issue to overcome than the start times.    But back on topic the 680 will not do the type of thing you want. 

[Gutbucket]

Except you need to sync start points before you can determine if drift is even an issue, and then, even if it is a problem at least I can get an idea over a song or two of where to go with it before the drift becomes aparent.  Again, it's mostly for a quick-dirty playback check in that case without the computer.  For the real deal, I align and stretch/shrink to match with Samplitude's Elastic Audio feature.

I use the R-44 this way sometimes as a 4 channel surround playback machine and a channel delay would be welcome.  I'd do the same with the DR-680 for 5 or 6 channels.

BTW, a typical delay effect unit can do the 'lag-time' job, as long as it is set for a single delay and 100% wet output with no through dry signal.  That way only the delayed signal is output, instead of dry + delayed echo.

Anyway, thanks for letting me know and apologies for the side track..

[darby]

probably is the SD unit, but have you spoken with anyone at Teac yet?

Yep They think it is the SD unit.  But I'll let you know more as I find out more....waiting on some replies from them

thanks Kirk,
I noticed in the USB Pre2 thread some folks said they were having issues with their 680 locking onto digital inputs
so far neither of my units... (just received a NEW unit to replace the original) have had an issue with my V3
so I wanted to pass along that may be an isolated issue like my FRIED main board

[kirk97132]

This is a test to see the different characteristics of the sound of mics going straight into a Busman modified Tascam DR-680 at mic level, low gain, vs going through the Sound Devices MixPre, then into the DR-680 at line level.

Which way do you like better?

http://www.vimeo.com/16681934

Chad..to me the busman mod seems to emphasize the mids and does not have the spaciousness the SD box does.   I also do not think the Rode mic is a good combo with the mixpre for whatever reason.   But I don't like the Rode sound in general so I could be biased

[thekittycatt]

If you want a very close guess to the delay to add it would be 1 millisecond per foot.  When I get home, I will explain more.

[Chadfish]

Kirkd

Yes the Rode mics are a bit bright, and that gets further emphasized with the MixPre, which in the test showed to uniformly add brightness to whatever goes through it.

Chris Johnson of Busman Audio says of his DR-680 mod, "If anything on the tone, the mod makes the response more flat therefore more transparent.". He also said, " I agree that the Mixpre has a lot of color and they are known for that, at least in tapers circles.  It has a mid bump and like you said loses some of the lows.   I don’t think the (DR-680)mod affects the color of the pres at all, it just opens them up for better soundstage and detail while bringing the noise floor down. I am going to do some tests in the next few days on some new units coming in for mods then do some after  mod tests and run analysis on them to give some data."

and

"I had a guy email me earlier then email me back after listening to the comps you posted and said he would only buy it if I could make it more detailed and transparent/ brighter.  If you want transparent then you must accept what that means for better or worse.  Brighter is not more transparent its just brighter.
I can make a brighter sound out of the pres but that was not what I wanted to get out of the mod.  I wanted flat uncolored response and I feel I have accomplished that."

Chris will be giving me some test results on pre/post mod machines to maybe "see" what changes happen.

Cheers
 

[thekittycatt]

If you want a very close guess to the delay to add it would be 1 millisecond per foot.  When I get home, I will explain more.

The speed of sound is 1130 feet per second.  1000 milliseconds in a second.  Sound travels 1.13 feet per millisecond.

[Gutbucket]

If you want a very close guess to the delay to add it would be 1 millisecond per foot.  When I get home, I will explain more.

The speed of sound is 1130 feet per second.  1000 milliseconds in a second.  Sound travels 1.13 feet per millisecond.

^^
More or less.  It varies depending on temperature (colder = slower) and also somewhat by humidity.  At 32F sound travels around 1085 ft/s.  Usually the 1 millisecond / foot of thumb is close enough for most of us. 

Healy used to have weather monitoring gear up above the stage to monitor and adjust for temp and other atmosphereic conditions (humidity, pressure, wind speed, etc).. the data was digitally linked to the soundboard and recorded to a computer along with lots of other information for tweakage and post-tour analysis back in the 80's.

[thekittycatt]

If you want a very close guess to the delay to add it would be 1 millisecond per foot.  When I get home, I will explain more.

The speed of sound is 1130 feet per second.  1000 milliseconds in a second.  Sound travels 1.13 feet per millisecond.

1130 ft/s is at sea level and 70F.  For every 1F change, the speed of sound changes by 1.1ft/s.

[Chadfish]

Hey you guys could always just adjust for mic distance in post by lining up the wave forms.

[ArchivalAudio]

If you want a very close guess to the delay to add it would be 1 millisecond per foot.  When I get home, I will explain more.

The speed of sound is 1130 feet per second.  1000 milliseconds in a second.  Sound travels 1.13 feet per millisecond.

^^
More or less.  It varies depending on temperature (colder = slower) and also somewhat by humidity.  At 32F sound travels around 1085 ft/s.  Usually the 1 millisecond / foot of thumb is close enough for most of us. 

Healy used to have weather monitoring gear up above the stage to monitor and adjust for temp and other atmosphereic conditions (humidity, pressure, wind speed, etc).. the data was digitally linked to the soundboard and recorded to a computer along with lots of other information for tweakage and post-tour analysis back in the 80's.

Damn... I knew Dan Healy was doing some magick voodoo but that's pretty cool and weird  to dial in the delay!
sweet!

--Ian

[Marcoscine]

probably is the SD unit, but have you spoken with anyone at Teac yet?

Yep They think it is the SD unit.  But I'll let you know more as I find out more....waiting on some replies from them

thanks Kirk,
I noticed in the USB Pre2 thread some folks said they were having issues with their 680 locking onto digital inputs
so far neither of my units... (just received a NEW unit to replace the original) have had an issue with my V3
so I wanted to pass along that may be an isolated issue like my FRIED main board

I have this issue of locking onto digital input with my MME at 96khz> DR-680

[kirk97132]

The Sound Devices USB PreII looks promising: http://www.sounddevices.com/products/usbpre2.htm

I haven't used it, or any mixer going into the S/PDIF yet. I only just got my 680.

No there is something fishy going on with the 680 and USBPre2 interfacing. 

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=139081.150

Waiting on Sound Devices Engineers and Tech to get back to me.

SD should be announcing a fix soon for this problem.