Topic: recording acoustic acts in my basement -- need advice as to micing and whatnot

[rhinowing]

So, the house I live in does acoustic shows 2-3 times a month in the basement...

The basement is poured concrete, and roughly 10 feet across by 20 deep, with stairs running down one side. Bands set up between the stairs and the opposite wall (let me know if this is making sense). The back wall has a couch and some various other stuff (water heater etc) so slapback hasn't really been an issue. there are wooden ceiling beams every foot or so that I can mount mics to, but here's what I've got at my disposal:

-SM58 (this is generally used for micing vocals, which go through a small PA)
-unknown condenser, looks like an SM57 but the casing is grey
-CA-11 (cardiod)
-SP-BMC-2 (omni)
-Carvin SM162 mixer (16 channel)
-Edirol R-09
-numerous laptops

We did a show last night with the CA-11 and a Shure KMS32 that one of the touring acts showed up with, CA-11s on a ceiling beam into the R-09, Shure into the console and then to a Laptop from there. Sound like a good mic config? I'd be glad to post photos or more precise measurements if anyone would like

[gkatz]

i was in a similar situation in a basement for my friend's party band last summer, and what I ended up doing was running some cheap condensers (behringer c-2's) XY at the 'stage lip' although there was no height difference in the stage, and I was able to get a nice recording of the the guitars, bass, and drumset (the drummer was only using brushes, so we didnt have to worry about overpowering the room. the vocals from the PA (two other speakers at the stage lip) though were very lacking in the recording from the mics, so in hindsight, I would have recorded the vocals directly to another source (laptop) and mixed the instrumental recording with it in post.
if I were you I would run the CA-11's from the rafters maybe 5-6' feet in front of the stage. I would not suggest using the omni's for acoustic music because you'll be more likely to get more chatter and less instruments. yea so the 11's into the edirol, than the 58 into your mixer. that would probably work just fine. maybe you could try to use the omnis hung and split above the musicians.

[Patrick]

So, the house I live in does acoustic shows 2-3 times a month in the basement...

The basement is poured concrete, and roughly 10 feet across by 20 deep, with stairs running down one side. Bands set up between the stairs and the opposite wall (let me know if this is making sense). The back wall has a couch and some various other stuff (water heater etc) so slapback hasn't really been an issue. there are wooden ceiling beams every foot or so that I can mount mics to, but here's what I've got at my disposal:

-SM58 (this is generally used for micing vocals, which go through a small PA)
-unknown condenser, looks like an SM57 but the casing is grey
-CA-11 (cardiod)
-SP-BMC-2 (omni)
-Carvin SM162 mixer (16 channel)
-Edirol R-09
-numerous laptops

We did a show last night with the CA-11 and a Shure KMS32 that one of the touring acts showed up with, CA-11s on a ceiling beam into the R-09, Shure into the console and then to a Laptop from there. Sound like a good mic config? I'd be glad to post photos or more precise measurements if anyone would like

I looked up your console and this is what I'd do. 2 things that you'll have to do for my idea...

1. PA system has to be run in MONO
2. You'll have to mix on the fly with headphones

...neither are terrible especially for acoustic acts in basements, in my opinion.

The Singer's vocal mic and maybe a DI for his guitar are fed into console channels.  Set levels and Pan those hard left.  Now, run whichever recording mics you choose into other console channels.  Use the console's preamps to set levels, and pan those hard right.  Your PA amps will be fed from the Left Main output of the console.  The Right Main output is not used.  This takes care of the PA system.

Your recording feed is going to be stereo and will be fed from the EFX 1 and 2 sends on the console.  efx1 is Record Left and efx2 is Record Right.  If you're recording to an R-09, you'll have to get cables/adapters to adapt 2 1/4" TS to 1/8" TRS.  Monitor on headphones and create a nice blend of the vocal mic, guitar DI, and your stereo room mics.  Make sure you're sending audience L record mic to efx1 only and audience R record mic to efx2 only!  These are your "quasi pan pots."  Singer's guitar and vocal can usually be right up the middle, so equal level on both efx knobs for those channels. 

Make sense?  I tried to be brief.  Make your rig's footprint small and don't lose gear to a house party.  It's happened to me more times than I'd like...

You can always record to two separate decks and do the matrix later, but this is much easier and probably will sound just as good as a matrix.  As long as the delay between PA and audience mics is not too noticeable, this approach will work well.  Just mix it on the fly, and be done with it.

[rhinowing]

So, the house I live in does acoustic shows 2-3 times a month in the basement...

The basement is poured concrete, and roughly 10 feet across by 20 deep, with stairs running down one side. Bands set up between the stairs and the opposite wall (let me know if this is making sense). The back wall has a couch and some various other stuff (water heater etc) so slapback hasn't really been an issue. there are wooden ceiling beams every foot or so that I can mount mics to, but here's what I've got at my disposal:

-SM58 (this is generally used for micing vocals, which go through a small PA)
-unknown condenser, looks like an SM57 but the casing is grey
-CA-11 (cardiod)
-SP-BMC-2 (omni)
-Carvin SM162 mixer (16 channel)
-Edirol R-09
-numerous laptops

We did a show last night with the CA-11 and a Shure KMS32 that one of the touring acts showed up with, CA-11s on a ceiling beam into the R-09, Shure into the console and then to a Laptop from there. Sound like a good mic config? I'd be glad to post photos or more precise measurements if anyone would like

I looked up your console and this is what I'd do. 2 things that you'll have to do for my idea...

1. PA system has to be run in MONO
2. You'll have to mix on the fly with headphones

...neither are terrible especially for acoustic acts in basements, in my opinion.

The Singer's vocal mic and maybe a DI for his guitar are fed into console channels.  Set levels and Pan those hard left.  Now, run whichever recording mics you choose into other console channels.  Use the console's preamps to set levels, and pan those hard right.  Your PA amps will be fed from the Left Main output of the console.  The Right Main output is not used.  This takes care of the PA system.

Your recording feed is going to be stereo and will be fed from the EFX 1 and 2 sends on the console.  efx1 is Record Left and efx2 is Record Right.  If you're recording to an R-09, you'll have to get cables/adapters to adapt 2 1/4" TS to 1/8" TRS.  Monitor on headphones and create a nice blend of the vocal mic, guitar DI, and your stereo room mics.  Make sure you're sending audience L record mic to efx1 only and audience R record mic to efx2 only!  These are your "quasi pan pots."  Singer's guitar and vocal can usually be right up the middle, so equal level on both efx knobs for those channels. 

Make sense?  I tried to be brief.  Make your rig's footprint small and don't lose gear to a house party.  It's happened to me more times than I'd like...

You can always record to two separate decks and do the matrix later, but this is much easier and probably will sound just as good as a matrix.  As long as the delay between PA and audience mics is not too noticeable, this approach will work well.  Just mix it on the fly, and be done with it.

wow! this is going to keep me busy for quite a while, thank you!

[Patrick]

wow! this is going to keep me busy for quite a while, thank you!

It'd be 1000 times easier to understand if I didn't have to type it out.  But let me know if you have any questions about it.

[aosone]

So, the house I live in does acoustic shows 2-3 times a month in the basement...

My guess is that the biggest problem you'll have is with the sound qualities of the room. The only way to find the sweet spot, if there is one, is trial and error. But hey, that's the fun part.

[acidjack]

I just did a 6mic recording of an acoustic act in a backyard.  I did not have any kind of PA or anything to patch out of, so we are in somewhat diff situations, but this is what I did:

2x mk41s just below head height to basically spot mic vox and guitar
2x 4061s down at just above knee level to pick up drums (this is not what I would have preferred; I'd have preferred to truly mic the drums or at least have the omnis right by them, but I couldn't do it.
2x 4021, one on either side of the band, more or less spot micing a horn player on one side + a standup bass and some of the drums on the other. 

I ran 4 channels into an R-44 and two into an M10.

It sounds pretty amazing, IMHO.  You obviously don't need the exact mics I used to do the same thing I did.

the hardest part is mixing it down...